Tail wags the dog on Odyssey Entegra 25R

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by Jopopsy

I’ve never experienced that feeling. Maybe it’s because the rigs I’ve had were longer and heavier in the front? I don’t know - but if I experienced what you have I’d have spent the money on the reflex too.

Did you ever drive yours an appreciable amount BEFORE the caster adjustment? I'm wondering if you would have had the same experience?

I had the same experience as RetiredOne with my rig, which is the same model as yours, 29MV. I also had wind buffeting problems, and NOT just from big rigs. A minivan would pass me, and I'd end up crossing the line on the right. I had to really buckle down and anticipate big rigs passing or I'd have ended up in the ditch.

I had toyed with the idea that weight distribution would make some difference, but that doesn't seem to matter much. My wife is not a "petite" person. She would move from the passenger seat to the rear bed, or vise versa, and there was no difference. She weighs more than any amount of gear I could re-position to the front to put more weight on the front axle to combat the rear over-hang unloading the front axle.

[Jopopsy]

I had a rig in 2015 that I didn’t do the caster on; but it was so long ago I don’t remember the experience. Once I learned about the caster adjustment it was the first thing I did when I got a different rig. Especially when Jayco was paying for it ... though sadly that part has changed.

[Harvard]

IMO, increased caster increases front end stability.
Reducing sway reduces the challenges to the front end stability.
Either or both helps the ride. Same, same, but different.

[Remote camper]

I have a 2019 25R.
Installing rear air bags has made a huge difference in ride quality.
I have them hooked up separately. I run 50 psi on the right side and 45 on the left. Firms up the rear bounce and takes most of the sway out.
Passing trucks have way less effect now. You still have to move over a bit, but it's not nearly as scary an experience.
Added benefit, you gain a little more ground clearance when pulling out of parking lots.

[Ricmasten]

Just returned from 2,700 miles of travel in CA, OR and WA... some freeway, but mostly two lane roads. Obtained SSF-106-47 front SumoSprings (1000) from direct from SuperSprings Int. overnight for a small fee and installed them the morning before we left. Dramatic improvement with the only negative being feeling more road through the steering wheel. While not 100% satisfied, I do not feel that driving the coach is unsafe any longer and the tail barely wags the dog at this point. Thanks for your insightful comments.

[Ricmasten]

The SumoSpring replaces the bumpstop. The OE bumpstop only touches when the spring compresses such as to cause it to be touched. The SumoSpring is in play all the time so that it acts as an additional spring and yet a full time cushion. By the way, it took me less than an hour to install... one bolt on each side and a long 10 meter socket, and as mentioned in my earlier comment, for me, I'm very pleased with the results.

[billgeo]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

I was totally amazed how the Reflex made such a BIG difference. In this part of the country, we have a ton on bombed out roads with patches, crappy bridge expansion joints, etc. Before the Reflex, when the rig hit these patches, I had no idea which way the wheel was going to jerk and dart off to. Every patch was a experience, wondering if I was going to end up in the woods or the median of the roadway.

After putting on the Reflex with the spring, not only did it calm down that wheel jerking, from the bigger damper, but it tries to re-center the wheel after the hitting the patch. This thing is worth every penny!!!

+1
Absolutely! I did the same, Roadmaster Reflex and upgraded front sway bar and I could steer with my knee now (but I don't )

[alazear]

I'd recommend doing all 4 things Retired One listed in his first post on this thread. I did them all.

1. Proper tightening Helwig Helper Springs on rear axle [factory setting was doing almost nothing, now they are really doing their job cranked down properly]
2. Upgrade front + rear sway bars [Helwig or Roadmaster]
3. Upgrade steering stabilizer [Roadmaster w/spring]

The rig settled right down on long drives and I'm happy. Many others have found the same. A Class C rig is not ever going to drive like a nice car or even a modern truck on the highway, but it drives fine in all road conditions I find: mountains, deserts, windy flats and freeways w/big trucks. When the wind gets too crazy you still need to put over and wait as you're pushing a garage door through the wind, but in moderate to challenging conditions, I'm happy.

[kayakkeith]

All of the items mentioned, sway bars, helper springs, and steering assist will improve the handling. You will notice many people are not answering your question about the sumo springs which are relatively new to the market. For that reason many people do not have any experience with them. They are a rubber with nitrogen bubbles in them. They are super light, easy to install, inexpensive, and from personal experience go a long way towards improving handling. On my rig I also upgraded the rear sway bar, as well as the struts and shocks, but did each improvement one at a time and then went driving so that I could gauge the effect. For people who do not know the sumo replaces the bump stops and basically is in contact all of the time and did a great job of reducing sway and bounce. So to answer your original question I would definitely add the sumo items especially if weight is one of your concerns. I installed mine in the driveway in about 25 minutes per axle. I had to raise each side about an inch to get them in to place.

[kayakkeith]

Second picture shows the bump stop where the sumo spring pictures was installed and the sumo not installed yet

[kayakkeith]

Additional info about the sumo. My rig is an Entegra with a Sprinter chassis but the issues of sway and bounce and having a truck chassis that is close to overloaded is true of all RVs. That is why upgrading the suspension helps so much. Trucks are designed to be drive able empty so when an made into an RV they are being driven near their limits all of the time which while safely able to handle the weight, they were not optimized for that weight. That is the reason that suspension upgrades are so noticeable in the improvement in handling. Sumo designs the springs for each application this first picture you can see the rear installed (with a Helwig sway bar peaking up in the bottom of photo) and the second photo shows the front. I for one would encourage you to try them out. 20,000 miles later I am still happy with mine.

[hamerjk]

I did the sumo springs front and back upgrades the sway bars also with Roadmaster steering stabilizer. I have to problems going down the road. Do not hardly feel semis passing at all. I recommend all the above.

[Johnynorthland]

Originally Posted by Ricmasten

When driving our new, 2019 Jayco Odyssey Entegra 25R on a Ford E450 chassis, it often feels as though the tail is wagging the dog especially on long turns and when passing trucks. Jayco has done a lot to improve the rear suspension such that the coach does not sway much, except on sharp drops from a driveway to street. I have changed the caster to 5.3 and 4.6 and added a spring loaded steering damper, but steering is still a workout, requiring much greater attention than was the case in my previous motor homes. Will the SumoSprings SSF-106-47 help, or will I just be spending money trying to resolve the unresolvable? Any other ideas?

I have a 2019 redHawk 25R. I can tell you from experience do the track bar “first”, that’s where you should spend your money PERIOD, I cannot stress this enough!

Then upgrade the front sway bar and possibly the rear sway bar and then front steering stabilizer.

You could do the sumo springs, I spent the money and put Firestone Ride-Rite airbags in the rear, improved ride height and the ride is very smooth now.

Everything i did improved the handling, but by far the Henderson Supersteer track bar was the best thing I ever did! Huge difference “immediately”!, especially when towing my car!

Former Auto mechanic and suspension/alignment specialist

[hamerjk]

I would think about adding this to help with the problem.

[Johnynorthland]

Yup!

[Jopopsy]

Actually I’m wondering if adding the Sumos to the front would be a bad idea for me. I’m all dialed in now w/ my caster and everything - at this point if the sumos nudge me nose up a bit b/c they have more support in them - it could conceivably mess up my caster adjustment right?

[Johnynorthland]

Originally Posted by Jopopsy

Actually I’m wondering if adding the Sumos to the front would be a bad idea for me. I’m all dialed in now w/ my caster and everything - at this point if the sumos nudge me nose up a bit b/c they have more support in them - it could conceivably mess up my caster adjustment right?

I’m not sure putting those sumo springs in the front would mess with your caster if anything it may change the camber, however I do not believe they are meant to lift your vehicle only to lessen the travel of the lower “A” frame as it compresses. Perhaps others have more information I have not done this installation yet on my rig and I’m wondering if it’s worth it or if the ride will be too harsh?

[Camper_bob]

Unless your front end is sagging a lot (like worn out springs), I don't think the Sumos up front will change the attitude of the rig. The Sumos are "progressive", meaning they give easily under minimum compression and less so under more compression.

All that is to say that I would be surprised if you installed and noticed a "static" difference in front-end height. But you will experience less suspension travel up front (by design) as the Sumos "assist" the front springs in taking some of that load.

FWIW, I didn't notice the ride to be any harsher after installation. IMO, the benefit is worth a little bit more "road feedback".

[Harvard]

Originally Posted by Jopopsy

Actually I’m wondering if adding the Sumos to the front would be a bad idea for me. I’m all dialed in now w/ my caster and everything - at this point if the sumos nudge me nose up a bit b/c they have more support in them - it could conceivably mess up my caster adjustment right?

If you nudge UP the nose you would increase the runtime caster at the rate of 1/4 degree per 1 inch nose rise (1/2 degree per 2 inch nose rise or 1 degree per 4 inch nose rise etc etc) Given a 240 inch wheel base...

[brightsky]

Originally Posted by JaytheDJ

Upgraded front and rear swaybars helped my 25R

covered by warranty? anything to do with wheelbase length/rv length ratio?