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Old 11-30-2022, 10:52 AM   #1
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Tire Question 2019 Entegra Class C

Went on a 3700mi trip, got back in November
Felt like a thump thump thump on my way home, enough to notice it, but not bad

About 22k Mike's on the rig, in PHX AZ so tires are a challenge here

Checked the tires today, and like half of both tires are bald, inside tire worse than outside one
Inside was about 77#, outside about 72#, so not too far off between eachother, and usually inflated to 80#

Any ideas. It's not edge bald, it's the entire width of the tires

Go to discount tire tomorrow, but figured I'd ask u experts

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Old 11-30-2022, 10:56 AM   #2
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I take it you mean on one set of duals. Did you check the lugs?
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Old 11-30-2022, 10:59 AM   #3
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Yes one set/side

I did not... But wear is even, would loose lugs do an even wear on them

Service guy is here installing the warranty Radio...I'll check lugs when he leaves
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Old 11-30-2022, 11:27 AM   #4
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Yes one set/side

I did not... But wear is even, would loose lugs do an even wear on them

Service guy is here installing the warranty Radio...I'll check lugs when he leaves
Just a guess.
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:17 PM   #5
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Damn wheel covers on it...gotta figure out how to get it off
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Old 11-30-2022, 12:52 PM   #6
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Covers off, lugs all right

Very strange, but, it is my 1st dually too
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:44 AM   #7
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Update

Pretty much my fault , new to duallys, didn't rotate them often and it's the driver side with all the water/tanks weight

Waiting on the 4 new MICHELIN
AGILIS CROSSCLIMATE tires to be installed

Fun fun fun
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Old 12-02-2022, 06:08 PM   #8
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You are lucky. I was on my way to a campground yesterday when I started getting the dreaded bump bump. Thought it was the freeway joints but in the back of my mind a tire bubble came to mind. 15 minutes later the inside rear tire blew up apparently due to tread separation.

7 hours on the side of the freeway while waiting for State Farm to send out a tow truck. They would assign one and then 1/2 hour later would cancel it because the company could not do the service. Went through this 5 times. They were failing to tell the tow company that it was a motorhome. I told them over and over that it was the motorhome.

Ended up calling a remote tire service that brought out a new tire on a new rim, installed it and I was on my way back home. Paid a premium price but in the end it was worth it.

My tires were 6 years old with 15k miles on them. Apparently it is said to replace the tires at 5 years. Now searching for some new tires. Old ones were Michelin. Not sure what I will go with.

Ah, the cost of camping.
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Old 12-03-2022, 09:00 AM   #9
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You are lucky. I was on my way to a campground yesterday when I started getting the dreaded bump bump. Thought it was the freeway joints but in the back of my mind a tire bubble came to mind. 15 minutes later the inside rear tire blew up apparently due to tread separation.

7 hours on the side of the freeway while waiting for State Farm to send out a tow truck. They would assign one and then 1/2 hour later would cancel it because the company could not do the service. Went through this 5 times. They were failing to tell the tow company that it was a motorhome. I told them over and over that it was the motorhome.

Ended up calling a remote tire service that brought out a new tire on a new rim, installed it and I was on my way back home. Paid a premium price but in the end it was worth it.

My tires were 6 years old with 15k miles on them. Apparently it is said to replace the tires at 5 years. Now searching for some new tires. Old ones were Michelin. Not sure what I will go with.

Ah, the cost of camping.
Ya I was really lucky. I can't even imagine howo g it was bad, but for sure felt the bump bump bump, same assumed it was the Texas/New Mexico roads, for at least 700+ miles. I looked at the tires, checked air, but it was bald on line half the tire, so just didn't see it

Lesson learned for sure

Mine where 4yr old, 22k miles, but not rotated as needed
Hope my Michelin do well at $230 each
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Old 12-09-2022, 08:14 AM   #10
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Help me understand. One set of duals (only one set?) had one tire worn pretty bad (inside) with the other ok? The other set of dual tires was fine?

You should rotate the tires for sure. Inside dual to front, front to outside rear and outside rear to inside rear. If you have leveling jacks (some people don't recommend this), you can lift one side off the ground at a time. Get an electric impact gun and a decent torque wrench. 22mm socket. Torque spec is 140ft. lbs.

If the weight balance is that far off that is concerning. The only other reason an inside would wear that fast on one side is if the axle was bent, but an alignment should see that. Seems pretty rare to have a bent HD rear axle.

Again one of those things the RV manufacturers don't seem to engineer if corner weights are that bad. Seems like a safety concern.
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Old 12-09-2022, 10:57 AM   #11
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Help me understand. One set of duals (only one set?) had one tire worn pretty bad (inside) with the other ok? The other set of dual tires was fine?

You should rotate the tires for sure. Inside dual to front, front to outside rear and outside rear to inside rear. If you have leveling jacks (some people don't recommend this), you can lift one side off the ground at a time. Get an electric impact gun and a decent torque wrench. 22mm socket. Torque spec is 140ft. lbs.

If the weight balance is that far off that is concerning. The only other reason an inside would wear that fast on one side is if the axle was bent, but an alignment should see that. Seems pretty rare to have a bent HD rear axle.

Again one of those things the RV manufacturers don't seem to engineer if corner weights are that bad. Seems like a safety concern.
It was both tires in one side, duals yes. Was the weighted side, water and tanks

Was user error, lack of rotating them

I learned
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Old 12-10-2022, 06:45 AM   #12
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This photo is from the FORD Owner's Manual.



I check tread depth every 1000 miles and rotate at 6000. On my RV, the right rear inside receives the most wear. After rotation it is on the left rear outside which receives the least wear. My 4 year old Michelin Defenders have 42000 miles on them and all are still showing 10/32 tread depth. I will replace them next year.
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Old 12-14-2022, 06:47 PM   #13
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A couple observations. "Thump, Thump or Bimp Bump" is the sound of tires trying to tell you something. That they may be in the process of failing.
Tires do not go from 100% ok to a failure or "blowout" or tread separation in a couple dozen miles but the separation can grow for well over 1,000 miles.


If you get a new and different noise you need to do a close inspection which does not mean a quick walk around but a close inspection.


Rotating tires is OK BUT if you are moving tires around it is critical that the duals be matched for OC (not OD as OD is hard to measure while OC is relatively easy) OC of the 2 tires must be within 3/4" of each other or you should not mount as a dual "pair".


Weight generates heat and heat kills tires. You need to get "4 corner weights" and then confirm there have been no significant weight changes by getting individual axle weights each year. "Weight Creep" is a real thing, especially for full timers. RVs should have at least 15% reserve load.


I cover the above items and terms in my blog on RV Tire Safety.
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Old 12-20-2022, 02:09 PM   #14
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Hey Tireman9,

What are you referring to by OC and OD?

Are you allowed to put you blog here? I would like to learn from it.

Regards,

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Old 12-20-2022, 02:37 PM   #15
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RVs should have at least 15% reserve load.


I cover the above items and terms in my blog on RV Tire Safety.
14500 * .15 = 2175 pounds. That's Redhawk territory, and a empty Redhawk at that. I'm not sure Jayco produces many Class 'C' floor plans north of 28' that would qualify for that calculation once people and gear go in these things.

I'd be willing to bet a significant amount of them are running heavy/overloaded all the time.

Not just Jayco, but FR and Winnie as well (though you'll usually get more CCC in a Winnie; a lot of that is their crap roof design saving weight though).

OP should definitely look at his weight sticker and then get it weighed. I've had a Class 'C' that was comfortably under GVWR but many hundreds over on the rear axle. That wasn't any good.
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Old 12-20-2022, 09:14 PM   #16
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14500 * .15 = 2175 pounds. That's Redhawk territory, and a empty Redhawk at that. I'm not sure Jayco produces many Class 'C' floor plans north of 28' that would qualify for that calculation once people and gear go in these things.

I'd be willing to bet a significant amount of them are running heavy/overloaded all the time.

Not just Jayco, but FR and Winnie as well (though you'll usually get more CCC in a Winnie; a lot of that is their crap roof design saving weight though).

OP should definitely look at his weight sticker and then get it weighed. I've had a Class 'C' that was comfortably under GVWR but many hundreds over on the rear axle. That wasn't any good.





I agree with you. Also the data from RVSEF shows that a majority or RV overload the tires.
I am working on a blog post on what people might consider so they can achieve at least a 15% Reserve Load.
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Old 12-20-2022, 09:17 PM   #17
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Hey Tireman9,

What are you referring to by OC and OD?

Are you allowed to put you blog here? I would like to learn from it.

Regards,

John

OC "Outside Circumference"
OD Outside diameter


Sorry but the forum Admins do not allow me to post a direct link to my blog.


Maybe you could Google "RV Tire Safety"
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Old 12-21-2022, 03:31 PM   #18
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I agree with you. Also the data from RVSEF shows that a majority or RV overload the tires.
I am working on a blog post on what people might consider so they can achieve at least a 15% Reserve Load.
Yeah I'm not sure how anyone with a longer class C would even get close to that. The total @ 80psi with a 15% reserve would put max weight at 13k lbs. My CCC on the Entegra is 1,400lbs to the 14,500 GVW, which means the completely unloaded Entegra can't even carry a passenger to be at that weight.

I know what I've personally gone through with tire development on OE programs, so I'm a little confused where this 15% hard number came from on your end.
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Old 12-21-2022, 09:19 PM   #19
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Yeah I'm not sure how anyone with a longer class C would even get close to that. The total @ 80psi with a 15% reserve would put max weight at 13k lbs. My CCC on the Entegra is 1,400lbs to the 14,500 GVW, which means the completely unloaded Entegra can't even carry a passenger to be at that weight.

I know what I've personally gone through with tire development on OE programs, so I'm a little confused where this 15% hard number came from on your end.

15% isn't a "hard" number. It's a compromise. I wrote a blog post on "Reserve Load" and found motor vehicles in the 30% to even 40% reserve load range. Until 2017 many RVs had essentially Zero Reserve load and we saw the results of that policy in very unacceptable tire failure rates
RVIA (RV Industry Association) now required at least a 10% reserve but even that is a soft number as it is the average on an RV so it is still possible to have one tire with almost Zero reserve if another tire has 20% reserve. Tires do not fail based on the numerical average load they need to support on a vehicle.It is more likely that the tire carrying the greatest load will fail.


If an SUV has a tire with 20 psi inflation while the other 3 tires have 33 psi each. Since the SUV tires have an "average" inflation of 30 psi does that mean all is OK? I think you can see the problem.


If I were King I might order that no tire on any vehicle can have less than 30% reserve load but since I am not King the best I can do is offer a reasonable compromise.


RE Class-C

Right now an option might be a 215/75R17.5 that can carry 3,970 to 4,805 depending on inflation. I could see a tire company deciding to make a new size such as 225/80R17.5 that could carry even more load.
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Old 12-22-2022, 07:43 AM   #20
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15% isn't a "hard" number. It's a compromise. I wrote a blog post on "Reserve Load" and found motor vehicles in the 30% to even 40% reserve load range. Until 2017 many RVs had essentially Zero Reserve load and we saw the results of that policy in very unacceptable tire failure rates
RVIA (RV Industry Association) now required at least a 10% reserve but even that is a soft number as it is the average on an RV so it is still possible to have one tire with almost Zero reserve if another tire has 20% reserve. Tires do not fail based on the numerical average load they need to support on a vehicle.It is more likely that the tire carrying the greatest load will fail.


If an SUV has a tire with 20 psi inflation while the other 3 tires have 33 psi each. Since the SUV tires have an "average" inflation of 30 psi does that mean all is OK? I think you can see the problem.


If I were King I might order that no tire on any vehicle can have less than 30% reserve load but since I am not King the best I can do is offer a reasonable compromise.


RE Class-C

Right now an option might be a 215/75R17.5 that can carry 3,970 to 4,805 depending on inflation. I could see a tire company deciding to make a new size such as 225/80R17.5 that could carry even more load.
Ford would have to do all the development and validation of a new 17.5" tire. Doing that development would also likely open themselves up to issues down the line with people overloading the rigs even more. Ford would likely also not be willing to keep the standard Ford factory warranty if RV manufacturers started putting different size wheel/tire combos on.

The reason revolves around liability surrounding the ESC/ABS systems. Those systems have teams of calibrators that program the system to function with that exact wheel and tire. Giant vehicles that don't handle well typically require a fairly invasive ESC system which works in tandem with the ABS. If the RV manufacturer changes those parameters, some goon who drives improperly and crashes may find a lawyer who may create a lot of problems.

The current 16" tire has about a 7% load reserve for the front GVW and a 9% load reserve for the rear.

Now, why the E450 is capped at 14,500lbs and 22,000 GC is an interesting question. It could very well be the tire is the limiting factor. Could be cooling, or something else entirely.

Ford has no reason to change anything as they sell just about every chassis they make for the RV industry and anything the RV manufacturer does outside of taking delivery of the chassis is something they can just wipe their hands of.

A 16" tire is about 29.2" overall. The vast majority of the 17.5" tires are a 30.2" so the speedo would need to be recalibrated. It'll also change the gear ratio. Are there 17" tires that are rated more than M speed? It's rare I would approach 80mph, but it does happen once in a while (northern michigan speed limit is 75). If it was M rated, they'd have to cap the RVs at likely just under 80. Probably some folks that wouldn't be happy with that. It would all be on the RV maker to do all that. Do you then only cap certain vehicles?

Lots of manufacturing engineering to ensure certain chassis get specific flashes without a screwup. At one point I found out that my RV was flashed with the wrong wheelbase from the factory.

To develop and validate a new tire, Ford would probably have to invest 2-3 million and increase the cost of the vehicle with less ROI.
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