Warning suspension problems - Hellwig Springs adjusted incorrectly from the factory

[reitrof]

Thanks Cat.

[thecampingcat]

I'm having my trusted mechanic look at it and adjust accordingly. Btw I would go with my guys assessment over anything either Jayco or Hellwig or more Ryde would say. Not rocket science on this issue

[thecampingcat]

I'll be doing this on Tues and report back

[reitrof]

So Cat are you going with 2 inches?

Also how did you get in touch with Kevin at Hellwig?

Thanks

[thecampingcat]

2" if mechanic thinks it will be an improvement but whatever he says I'm going with. 800 435 5944 Kevin is in teck support

[thecampingcat]

Also my rig rides great right now and I don't notice difference loaded with firewood or not. I mean really nice quiet ride. We rented from cruise America for 7 years we still laugh about yelling to here each other with all the rattles..kinda miss that too in an odd way!

[NC Roamer]

So which Hellwig helper springs do the Greyhawks have? Is it the Load Pro 35?

[msturtz]

Originally Posted by NC Roamer

So which Hellwig helper springs do the Greyhawks have? Is it the Load Pro 35?

It is like the LP35 but I think it may be an OEM version. I spoke with the Hellwig Chief Engineer. Jayco is being very coy about this and so is Hellwig. The springs are not adjusted correctly from Jayco / Mor-Ryde however, after my situation they are being very careful what they admit to customers. It does depend on the loaded weight of your unit however, they are being installed without factoring in the weight of the body because the springs are being installed prior to the body. They should be adjusted by Jayco after the body is installed (built really) to the factory ship weight or even to the GVWR which would be safe. It would make for a harsh ride for the delivery drivers but that shouldn't be of too much of concern for the customer who will be using the unit at or close to the GVWR.

[The Logans]

Talked to Jayco today, and it doesn't look like they will do anything about it. I can't do it myself, or have a mechanic do it while the unit is still under warranty (it's only six months old). Anything that I do or have done that's not specifically authorized by Jayco will cause warranty issues if something goes wrong.


It's a shame, because getting some weight back on the front will help with the "wandering".

[The Logans]

This is the response that I received from Jayco:

"We have reviewed your photos and concerns. Jayco has inspected our installation process as well as a number of units in the field waiting for delivery. Attached are the standards that are given to us by Hellwig’s supplier and audited by Hellwig’s supplier on a regular basis. Your springs have been installed correctly and in accordance with the standards provided."

So, they are saying that there is no issue.


Don't know what else there is to say...

[thecampingcat]

Haven't made it to my trusted automotive and truck mechanic are certified etc. My concern now is only to rule out safety..my ride is fine with and without firewood..lots to think about on this one..but my response from Hellwig was 2" would be better but not unsafe and Jayco says everything is great..plus warrant concerns it's brand new

[msturtz]

Originally Posted by The Logans

Talked to Jayco today, and it doesn't look like they will do anything about it. I can't do it myself, or have a mechanic do it while the unit is still under warranty (it's only six months old). Anything that I do or have done that's not specifically authorized by Jayco will cause warranty issues if something goes wrong.


It's a shame, because getting some weight back on the front will help with the "wandering".

That is quite odd they paid to adjust mine and paid for the damaged caused by the suspension cycling. If there was no problem then they wouldn't have paid for mine to be fixed. Get everything in writing. If something goes wrong they will attempt to claim that you overloaded it. My unit was not even 6 months old and we had only been out two or three short trips that the bolts were stripped out when the Hellwig dealer tried to adjust the brackets. Had I used it much more the brackets could have failed. I wasn't over weight either. I strongly recommend anyone on this forum get a certified scale weight for every position with your unit loaded for camping to cover yourself. I can tell you that Hellwig was very frank with me that the springs were not correctly adjusted for the weight of the unit. When the suspension cycles the brackets can become unloaded and then rapidly reload which causes abnormal wear.

[The Logans]

Hi Michael,


My impression is that they have decided on a policy of only taking care of the issue when there is a failure, as in your case. Probably like the cases of the GM ignition switches, and the airbag explosions, there will only be a recall if somebody is injured or killed.


It's sad, but that seems to be the way of the world these days.


I'm very glad that they paid for your repairs. I'd love to get mine done, if for no other reason than to improve the handling, but it just isn't in the budget.


Ed

[reitrof]

So I adjusted the spring gap today. The leading ubolt gap was 4.25 and the rear was 3.25 inches.

I adjusted them all to 2.75 and will see how that goes. The rear has been raised by about an inch. The trailing u bolts were relatively easy but the fronts since they are longer are a pain. My deep socket runs out of grip at about 3.5 inches and my largest ratcheting wrench was 21 mm, I needed 22. So it was a painful creep to 2.75.

Will see how it affects the ride in a month when we move.

[Eric6A]

Originally Posted by msturtz

Jayco incorrectly installed the Hellwig helper springs on many Greyhawk motorhomes with the "J-Ride" package. The Redhawk brand may also be affected. If you own a Greyhawk or Redhawk motorhome I strongly suggest you inspect your Hellwig springs adjustment.

What models and years of Greyhawks can have the problem? And how many miles does it take to see evidence of a problem?

I have a 2005 24SS with spring shackles that look like the picture on right, but the shackles appear to be in perfect condition after 18,000 miles. The rear of the motorhome sits about 2" higher than the front part just behind the cab. That's with the gas tank full, holding tanks empty, normal kitchen stuff, no food. The handling seems very good and steady, much better than my previous 24' motorhome (1998 Maverick RK).

I'm thinking if I shorten the shackle, the rear end of the motorhome will ride even higher than it does now. That doesn't seem like a good idea. Maybe on a 24 footer, the shackles should not be adjusted the same as on a 31 footer?

[msturtz]

Originally Posted by Eric6A

What models and years of Greyhawks can have the problem? And how many miles does it take to see evidence of a problem?

I have a 2005 24SS with spring shackles that look like the picture on right, but the shackles appear to be in perfect condition after 18,000 miles. The rear of the motorhome sits about 2" higher than the front part just behind the cab. That's with the gas tank full, holding tanks empty, normal kitchen stuff, no food. The handling seems very good and steady, much better than my previous 24' motorhome (1998 Maverick RK).

I'm thinking if I shorten the shackle, the rear end of the motorhome will ride even higher than it does now. That doesn't seem like a good idea. Maybe on a 24 footer, the shackles should not be adjusted the same as on a 31 footer?

It is based on loaded weight. Take your coach across a scale fully loaded for camping including water, fuel etc. Be sure you weigh each corner and record those weights as well. Armed with that information you can make a rational decision as to a recommended adjustment. Just call Hellwig and tell them my rear axle weighs xx right and yy left. They should be able to recommend an adjustment. My post was about the 31 foot Greyhawks with auto leveling jacks that are at or near their GVWR. Mine wasn't doing anything and the rear came up about 3" from the way it was from the factory. In fact the delivery driver who delivered the unit to the dealer bottomed out on the landing jacks and bent the limit switch pins on the landing jacks. The coach was riding way too low in the rear. As soon as the springs were adjusted correctly no more bottoming out!

[reitrof]

Originally Posted by thecampingcat

Haven't made it to my trusted automotive and truck mechanic are certified etc. My concern now is only to rule out safety..my ride is fine with and without firewood..lots to think about on this one..but my response from Hellwig was 2" would be better but not unsafe and Jayco says everything is great..plus warrant concerns it's brand new

Are you adjusting both ends of the springs to 2"?

[msturtz]

Originally Posted by The Logans

Hi Michael,


My impression is that they have decided on a policy of only taking care of the issue when there is a failure, as in your case. Probably like the cases of the GM ignition switches, and the airbag explosions, there will only be a recall if somebody is injured or killed.


It's sad, but that seems to be the way of the world these days.


I'm very glad that they paid for your repairs. I'd love to get mine done, if for no other reason than to improve the handling, but it just isn't in the budget.


Ed

The cost for the adjustment of all the Hellwig springs was about $250. The replacement of the shackles due to the failure was an additional $300. So if you have a Hellwig dealer correct the install even if Jayco doesn't pay it should only cost about $250 - $300 to correct.

[msturtz]

Originally Posted by thecampingcat

Haven't made it to my trusted automotive and truck mechanic are certified etc. My concern now is only to rule out safety..my ride is fine with and without firewood..lots to think about on this one..but my response from Hellwig was 2" would be better but not unsafe and Jayco says everything is great..plus warrant concerns it's brand new

If you have any warranty issues Jayco won't stand behind you at all because they will claim that you "overloaded the rig" and ask you to prove you didn't. The only time they will be "nice" is if you are in a state with a good lemon law and then only long enough to age out the warranty and mount their defense and or cost you money all while telling you they are going to help you.

[Eric6A]

Originally Posted by msturtz

It is based on loaded weight.

Is the problem isolated to recent years, or does it extend over 10-20 years? In other words, why are we just now becoming aware of it? I've searched the forum for 24SS problems like this, and find nothing. Did Hellwig or Jayco tell you anything about the scope of the problem? Or is it totally random?