Where's the quality?

[Wandermuch]

Recently bought a 2018 Seneca 37TS. We wanted to do some more long distance trips and thought this would be a better fit than our previous RV's. So we pulled out everything we had and ordered one. So far it's been a huge expensive mistake.

There's no power to cruise. It's overwhelmingly noisy. Screens don't fit. Windows don't operate. The paint job looks like it was done by an amateur. Recliners don't recline. Sliding doors fell off the ceiling. Rear window unsuitable for ventilation. Dinette table top scratched beyond believe. Terrible caulking job everywhere. Sound system and GPS unmanageable.

If I'd have gone the cheapest route, I would understand but seriously...this is supposed to be top shelf. I know there's a warranty but I didn't pay that price for a unit to park it at the dealer's all first season.

Why does Jayco do this and how do they expect to stay in business?

[ALJO]

Sorry you have some problems with your RV. First off all it is not only Jayco it is the RV standards overall. You can check many RV forums and it is all the same. On the same token it is only a few percent of the overall RV sales who really have some issues and you'll find them on forums. Once you have worked out the bugs you will be happy with your RV. Have everything document at your dealer for warranty and let him contact Jayco.

[pconroy]

There's the Pre-delivery-inspection - PDI. Did you note all of the defects during the PDI?

I get it - the point of the post is that Jayco should have never had let that vehicle out of the line. And that there are some design defects.

You're not alone; there are several posts weekly (daily?) about poor quality. But, so far, we haven't had any real problems on our Greyhawk. And the one design problem I have is the pitifully undersized single AC unit.

So Jayco is capable of getting decent ones out. But their QC must really be poor.

Anyway, what are you thinking in the way of recourse?
Let the dealer take a stab a fixing things?

If a trip to Indiana is possible, darn near everyone reports that letting Jayco handle the repairs usually ends very well.

[Wandermuch]

Originally Posted by pconroy

There's the Pre-delivery-inspection - PDI. Did you note all of the defects during the PDI?

I get it - the point of the post is that Jayco should have never had let that vehicle out of the line. And that there are some design defects.

You're not alone; there are several posts weekly (daily?) about poor quality. But, so far, we haven't had any real problems on our Greyhawk. And the one design problem I have is the pitifully undersized single AC unit.

So Jayco is capable of getting decent ones out. But their QC must really be poor.

Anyway, what are you thinking in the way of recourse?
Let the dealer take a stab a fixing things?

If a trip to Indiana is possible, darn near everyone reports that letting Jayco handle the repairs usually ends very well.

I'm sure the warranty will make most everything right. However, there is no compensation for camping time lost, reservations cancelled or my time and the fuel to keep running the unit to the dealer. Don't even want to think about running it to Indiana. Can't blame the dealer for Jayco's focus on profit versus quality.

[Greyhawk01]

Do more with less seems to be the way we run companies anymore.

[pconroy]

Reminds me a bit of American Car manufacturers in the 70's. Some real garbage coming off the line.

"Oh, looks like you got one built on a Monday when they were still hungover..."

Unfortunately, they cannot build them fast enough. There's another post on this forum about someone getting their 5th wheel off the backlog.

The mantra now is: crank 'em out and fix 'em later.

[Sundancer330]

I recently read a post that quality was getting so bad at one of the Jayco plants that they closed for a few days to have employees think about their jobs. Sounds more like management needs to address how many units a day they can push out the door but that will never happen.

[ALJO]

Isn't also the fault of the buyer? If you know it is a poor product and still buy........hello who's at fault here? Similar if you buy used........you have to do the PDI and still when you bring it home you'll find things wrong (similar for vehicles and other goods). Our "Must Have" demands are very high and we buy the crap. For those who have two right hands to fix things they are just lucky to solve their problem. But for those who depends on warranty and dealers though luck for them, they have to fork out $$ out their wallets. High demand means crap out the door (because they hire any two left handed person). Low demand means better quality, because more conscientious craftsman make the product. And Corporations doesn't help either, because the investor/shareholders want to see return on their investment. So sales/production has to be up, no matter if the consumer get a poor product. (China doesn't care what they sell). So as long the consumer has a "Must Have" demand and keeps buying the poor products, we shouldn't complain. Yes, I might step on a few toes. But the saying is: "The Truth Hurts".

[che57vy]

I think now days it quantity out the door not quality, I have been lucky with my 09 Greyhawk yes a small problem now and then.I heard or read that supposedly the years 08 thru 2011 were better quality units who knows. I try to remind my self when something goes wrong remember this is a house being driven down the road in hurricane force wind.But a new unit that is a shame with all those problems And now that Thor has taken over Jayco I am sure quality has really taken a hit.

[ecksdude]

The fact is, Jayco (and most other RV manufacturers) simply don't appear to be able to deliver high quality at the low price points people are mostly willing to pay.

Grand Design advertises a higher level of QC before the trailer hits the dealerships. I wonder if they are making good on that promise? If so, it could move the industry to their products.

Seems to me if Jayco could vastly improve the quality with only a better QC check, that would be worth it to their bottom line.

I wonder that no one has a business yet who's main function is to go along with the customer for the PDI and check everything out. I wonder even more why the dealers don't just do this themselves as a part of the sale.

Can you imagine having to go through a 4-hour PDI checklist every time you buy a new car?

I know the standard answer is "if you want that kind of quality, buy an airstream".

Question: if all those problems could have been prevented for an extra $5K on the price tag, would you pay it?

The market seems to be answering: "No."

[ecksdude]

FYI: just checked out the Grand Design forums. Same stuff, different manufacturer.

Carry on...

[che57vy]

I always heard Airstream quality but from what I see they have their share of problems too

[Marcm157]

As others have said many of the things you pointed out should have been very obvious to you during PDI. What happened there? If issues were not resolved why did you take delivery?

[Sundancer330]

Originally Posted by Wandermuch

It's overwhelmingly noisy.

Did you not drive one before purchase.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Wandermuch

Can't blame the dealer for Jayco's focus on profit versus quality.

To me that is debatable. The dealer should go over everything thoroughly before delivery too.

As to JAYCO's Q Q, they do the same as many companies, go over every 5th, 10th or so and if issues are found then every unit in that batch is gone over much closer.

[NC Roamer]

Our 2014 Greyhawk had its share of issues, hoo boy did it ever, but we are very happy with it now. The key to that is our local Jayco dealer who worked with us during the two-year warranty to fix or replace everything that was problematic.

For any problem that arose during camping season that made the RV unusable, they'd get us into the shop immediately. (That's one of the benefits of buying from our local dealer.) If the problem wasn't urgent, we'd add it to the list of items to fix during the winter. The Greyhawk spent quite a few weeks with the dealer during both winters of our warranty, but in the end we have a unit that is in good condition.

While I agree that it should have been in that condition when it rolled off the assembly line, that's apparently not how the RV industry works. We just returned from back-to-back trips totaling about 1800 miles and had no problems. I spoke with a guy in a Florida rest area driving a six-month old Newmar who was lamenting that he'd bought it. Last year we were getting off I-40 to overnight in a Walmart and were passed by a very nice looking Prevost RV. Next morning as we continued west I saw it broken down on the shoulder. So even RVs that cost several multiples of what we paid for the Greyhawk have serious issues.

[WaltW]

Wandermuch, I would like to ask a few questions about your quality concerns.
(1) You say there is no power to cruise. What do you mean by that? Performance in mountainous regions? Acceleration? Ability to hold expressway speeds? I moved from a heavier class A with the same powertrain and was pleasantly surprised by the Seneca's performance. No, you can't cruise at 80 (tires are only rated for 75) although you should at least keep up with semis uphill if not pass them albeit slowly.
(2) Overwhelming noise? Is that on hot days in traffic or climbing hills? The fans do kick into high in certain situations but we can still hold a conversation in the cab. It's quieter in the front of a class A but there are other tradeoffs.
(3) The rear window does not ventilate by design not quality. All mfgers do not want to be liable for users leaving the rear open when driving allowing exhaust fumes to be pulled into the coach. You could replace the window and assume liability.
(4) I agree with the comments about PDI. The subtle things you could miss but a "tabletop scratch beyond (sic) believe", I don't know how you could have missed that. Now in the excitement of a new purchase I have also missed a few things but none as big as you implied.

All that said, my Seneca has been at Jayco for 6 weeks and counting for repairs that would not have been found during even the best PDI. Expect a few more things to break as you bounce the house down the road. Enjoy it when you can.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by WaltW

No, you can't cruise at 80 (tires are only rated for 75) although you should at least keep up with semis uphill if not pass them albeit slowly.

Our 08 on the KODIAK chassis was governed the same way.

[rjackson]

last month we visited the jayco plant and took a tour of the fifthwheel line, thier quota for the entire week was 15 units a day, when they finish they can go home. they were running to get tools,parts,running down the roof with a staple gun firing all the way. when they build them that fast, quality is left behind

[Dave A]

It's not just Jayco although I believe they should be ashamed of some of the workmanship on our 5th wheel, it's also the accessories. In a year and a half we had have the dryer, front air conditioner, refrigerator and propane regulator replaced or repaired.