Why a 30 amp service???

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by Shokyle1

Here is a good way of thinking about it in my breaker panel at home I have a total of 450 amps of breakers with a 200 amp panel. I could be within my amperage draw for the breakers but overload the feed. Should the builder put in a 500 amp main feed just in case.

Sure, if you regularly exceed 200 amp draw when all your normal appliances are running. Do you pull over 200 amps on a regular basis?

I have 100 amps of breakers in my rig with a 30 amp service. I can easily pull 40 - 50 amps if I use all the systems as installed.

[Vicr]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

It would be helpful if you could post specifically how that pertains to a 30 amp rating.

In a nutshell: (1) HVAC unit (AC) a 30 amp service is required, that's bare minimum code so they wouldn't electively install a 50 amp service. UNLESS, and the code doesn't cover this YET, there is an electric fireplace. Which technically falls under the NEC article if you read the wording of the article carefully. But since there are no electrical inspections done on RVs there is no "Authority Having Jurisdiction" so there is no one to tell the RV manufacturer that they must indeed install a 50 amp service because they interpret the code to read, inferred, that an AC and an electric fireplace are two "HVAC" devices.
A bit wordy but that's my summation of what our present situation is with RV's and the NEC requirements and jurisdictional short comings of the code being interpreted and enforced.

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by JimD

Hey, we need to make some consolations, after all we are technically "roughing it". If you feel the need to use every electrical appliance at once you might as well stay home.

I am perfectly happy with my 30 amp service and do not mind managing what I have turned on at the same time. I can run my 2 air conditioners without any problem. If I want to run the microwave, coffee pot, electric skillet, or whatever, I just either shut down the rear air or let the power management system handle it.

That was my point. You, I and a bunch more understand power loads, and turn on and off fixtures to stay in range of the 30 amp. But, we also have a ton on newbies who don't understand it. So, I believe, it's very possible for someone to exceed the 30 amp service, and not even know it.

Heck, just running the A/C, water heater, converter and fridge comes in at like 38 amps, 25% over the rating, before turning anything else on. How often are those 4 items running at the same time?

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by Vicr

In a nutshell: (1) HVAC unit (AC) a 30 amp service is required, that's bare minimum code so they wouldn't electively install a 50 amp service.

I think that's it, more than reality and function. "Bare Minimum".... that fits just about everything they do to these rigs...

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by JimD

Having 50 amp service in a rig would also require a much larger generator at increased cost. Great if you need it but if you don't, why have it.

That's an interesting point, too. My rig has a 4kW generator, instead of a smaller one, so they built in some additional capacity with genny versus shore power.[/QUOTE]

Lastly, some campgrounds charge more for 50 amp service over 30 and may have limited 50 amp spaces.

I've seen that, but it's not much of an upcharge. How many have limited 50 amp spaces due to the age of the campground and many of the old rigs only having 30 amp service, so that was the majority of what was built/installed. Aren't the majority of TTs 30 amp?

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

Also there would be a fair up charge for the camp grounds to add another conductor.

I think this is the key point here.


I'm a new RV'er - only a half dozen years.
But it looks like the ratio of 30A to 50A pedestals in many campgrounds is 6 to 1.


There would be a lot of unhappy camp ground owners if they had to turn away their class c market.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

That's an interesting point, too. My rig has a 4kW generator, instead of a smaller one, so they built in some additional capacity with genny versus shore power.

Except your geny only has a 30 amp breaker. That is also the case with most generators up to the 8000 Quiet Diesel.

[che57vy]

We go by the Green Acres method you can not use number 2 with number 5

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by che57vy

We go by the Green Acres method you can not use number 2 with number 5

Ha! I remember that!

[Jagiven]

Originally Posted by pconroy

But it looks like the ratio of 30A to 50A pedestals in many campgrounds is 6 to 1.

We do not visit many private CG's. Around here, very little of the state parks have 50 amp. In reality, I only know of one campsite in one SP that has a 50 amps at a campsite.

[EA37TS]

Originally Posted by pconroy

I think this is the key point here.


I'm a new RV'er - only a half dozen years.
But it looks like the ratio of 30A to 50A pedestals in many campgrounds is 6 to 1.


There would be a lot of unhappy camp ground owners if they had to turn away their class c market.

I believe that the ratio is based on where you are and what you are looking for. The majority of private campgrounds we have been to over the last 7 years or so have had 20, 30 and 50 amp at the pedestals. Also, in those campgrounds that had done or the other the 50 amp pedestals tend to be at the sites used by larger rigs in the greater than 30 foot range. Not sure about an up charge for 50 amp because most sites are listed as 30/50 full hookup pull thru or 30/50 full hookup back in.

One fact is true and 30 amp class c owner can usually run everything in their coach off a 50 amp pedestal using a dogbone however a 50 amp owner cannot run everything in their coach from a 30 amp pedestal with adapter.

[bankr63]

Always amused by these posts "why don't the mfg's just add more..."

Ignores that there is a very small handful of mfg's who do build very good RV's with "beyond code" requirements. For some reason they never find a lot of buyers willing to shell out the $$ required to build that kind of product. It is a niche market, but if you look for it, you can find it. Just be prepared to pay for that kind of quality build.

I look at my RV as an education in how to upgrade all of the systems in a very basic home. I have learned tons about both doing it right and doing it light at the same time.

[JimD]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

I believe that the ratio is based on where you are and what you are looking for. The majority of private campgrounds we have been to over the last 7 years or so have had 20, 30 and 50 amp at the pedestals. Also, in those campgrounds that had done or the other the 50 amp pedestals tend to be at the sites used by larger rigs in the greater than 30 foot range. Not sure about an up charge for 50 amp because most sites are listed as 30/50 full hookup pull thru or 30/50 full hookup back in.

One fact is true and 30 amp class c owner can usually run everything in their coach off a 50 amp pedestal using a dogbone however a 50 amp owner cannot run everything in their coach from a 30 amp pedestal with adapter.

Yes and no. You can hook up to a 50 amp service easily BUT your internal circuit breaker is still only 30 amp and will be your limiting factor.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Vicr

NEC Article 551.42(C) explains what constitutes the 30a rating for an RV.

Originally Posted by Vicr

The RV industry as a whole has chosen to build to the bare minimum code as far as service circuit size. Post #6 sources the code if anyone would like to read it.

Not to mention that the code does change over the years... I've been carrying a code book in my truck since I was an apprentice in the 70's, and later on as a contractor.

for grins... here is what the 1971 code was - vs the code in 1999

[jpurvis]

Generally the smaller units have one A/C and many of the bigger units have 2 A/C’s. Thus 50 amps. Hair dryers will trip 30’s especially in Texas and other warm places in the hotter climes. Have had two shore powers to click off with hair dryers.

[Picinisco]

Kitchen has 1 outlet with 2 sockets. If I boil the kettle or have the coffemaker on and make toast while the water heater us on, popped breaker. Have to be diligent and switch the water heater off while making toast and coffee at the same time.

[russellmania01]

Our coach has 2 ac’s and 30amp service. At first I was worried about it because our 5er had 2 ac’s and 50amp service. So far no problem.

[Cavie]

Originally Posted by RetiredOne

Trying to figure out why shorter rigs have a 30 amp service (and some TT), while bigger rigs have 50 amp service. For the most part, they have the same fixtures and appliances, except the longer rigs can have a second A/C unit.

But when I add up the potential equipment that can be turned on at the same time, the 30 amp falls far short of providing enough power... Here's a list:

Turn on the A/C, 14 amps; Water heater cycles, 14 amps; turn on Coffee maker, 7 amps; Cook some bacon in microwave, 12 amps; Wifey blow drys hair, 12 amps; Converter kicks on, 6 amps; Fridge cycles, 3 amps; TV on, 2 amps...

So, with normal activities, the 30 amp supply can easily get overloaded if it's not monitored. So, based on these possibilities, why didn't Jayco put a 50 amp service (actually 100 amps, 50 amp in each leg) in the shorter rigs too?

$$$$$$$$$ It's not just Jayco. Plus most of your amperage are high. And yes, you need to learn Energy Management. Put WH on gas and your problems will go away.

[Shokyle1]

If enough people complain to their congressmen maybe the rv manafacturers will be forced to follow residential building codes. Then no one will be able to afford them.

[RRRRRRJ]

1 ac - 30 amp

2 ac - 50 amp