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02-09-2020, 12:59 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,217
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Winter camping...
Our 2016 Greyhawk 31FK has exposed pipes underneath which cramps our style. When the temps hit low 20's (farhenheit) things will freeze.
I've been goofin' with some Heat Cable - the kind you put on the roof to prevent ice dams. After a dozen experiments, I've figured out that the hot-est the cable gets is about 150*F.
I bought some PEX from Home Depot, some temperature sensors and some timers. I placed temp sensors in the pipe (immersed) and outside next to the heat cable.
What I've come to the conclusion is that pulsing the cable on for 30 mins, off for 30 mins keeps the water in the pipe well above 60*F. The pipe itself seemed to reach about 80*F.
In fact on for 30 and then off for 60 minutes seems to be fine too.
I'm planning on taking this to the next step. Climbing under the doggone RV and see if there's a way I can wrap the exposed pipe with the heat cable.
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2016 Greyhawk 31FK
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02-09-2020, 05:07 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: California Defector
Posts: 112
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Don't leave your water line connected and outside each night. Fill water tank every afternoon. Run portable electric heaters inside, and in wet Bay (5 amp portable heater.if you can jimmyrig a tarp around the coach as skirting, put a heater underneath plugged to pedestal. Good luck and Happy Trails!
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02-09-2020, 06:00 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pconroy
Our 2016 Greyhawk 31FK has exposed pipes underneath which cramps our style. When the temps hit low 20's (farhenheit) things will freeze.
I've been goofin' with some Heat Cable - the kind you put on the roof to prevent ice dams. After a dozen experiments, I've figured out that the hot-est the cable gets is about 150*F.
I bought some PEX from Home Depot, some temperature sensors and some timers. I placed temp sensors in the pipe (immersed) and outside next to the heat cable.
What I've come to the conclusion is that pulsing the cable on for 30 mins, off for 30 mins keeps the water in the pipe well above 60*F. The pipe itself seemed to reach about 80*F.
In fact on for 30 and then off for 60 minutes seems to be fine too.
I'm planning on taking this to the next step. Climbing under the doggone RV and see if there's a way I can wrap the exposed pipe with the heat cable.
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I have not really had a chance to check the underside yet. I do have heated tanks and someone mentioned that the lines are heated also but I am not betting on that.
What I am considering is evaluating a coroplast cover for the underside but I need to get under and determine how much of a job that might be. Our toyhauler had a complete coroplast underbelly cover with insulation above. With heat piped in it was good down to 0 and we proved that a few times. I am not sure of the Greyhawk. I doubt 0.
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02-10-2020, 07:56 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,217
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Heated tanks on our Greyhawk but that's it.
The lines are exposed - very exposed.
I've already wrapped them in pipe insulation.
And I'll run a heater in the basement.
But when the temps dipped to mid teens, we froze up.
Maybe I missed a spot with the pipe insulation.
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2016 Greyhawk 31FK
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02-11-2020, 05:32 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: California Defector
Posts: 112
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How "long" your camping at one particular spot might play a role in how much work you want to put in. We were at one specific location for months in cold weather, so investing time and a little money was worth it for us. Nighttime temps from 20's to -8. My plastic tarp skirting and a heater under my RV below the plumbing lines kept me good even to the -8 night. 3 nights in Williams, Arizona, in the teens and 20's with no skirting resulted in pipes freezing. Fortunately no damage, though.
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02-11-2020, 06:36 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pconroy
Heated tanks on our Greyhawk but that's it.
The lines are exposed - very exposed.
I've already wrapped them in pipe insulation.
And I'll run a heater in the basement.
But when the temps dipped to mid teens, we froze up.
Maybe I missed a spot with the pipe insulation.
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We camped (elk hunting) for two weeks at a time in December at 8000" (Flagstaff area). Over the 15 years that I had two different trailers while hunting we had one or two freeze ups with temps down to near 0. In all cases it was either exposed low point drains or the UDC being under insulated but we also had enclosed underbelly with heat forced in.
As long as we made sure that no lines were near the sides or floor of the underbelly we were fine. Lines that drop below the bottom of the trailer allow water to freeze and wick back up the line to the T where is shuts off water flow.
One thing that I saw some do on hunting trips was a floor of straw below the trailer to put some insulation between the ground and the trailer. Some swore by it.
We are about to set off on a javelina hunting trip to SE Arizona where it can get into the low 20's. In those cases I usually fill the fresh water tank and work off of it until the lines thaw later in the morning. This will be the first test for the Greyhawk. We will see how it goes.
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02-11-2020, 10:04 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAG
This will be the first test for the Greyhawk. We will see how it goes.
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Wishing you good luck and good hunting!!!
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2016 Greyhawk 31FK
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02-12-2020, 08:53 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pconroy
Wishing you good luck and good hunting!!!
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Thank you!
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02-12-2020, 10:07 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: MATTAPOISETT
Posts: 233
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Heated tanks..... LOL I too have a Greyhawk with heated tanks and the heating pad is a small bandage it might keep it from freezing solid but i would not put your trust in them. The piping is not heated nor is it covered, it will freeze. If your staying long term in the cold I would suggest hay-bale or at least tarp the perimeter of your rig and put a space heater under there
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02-13-2020, 11:56 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berjr
Heated tanks..... LOL I too have a Greyhawk with heated tanks and the heating pad is a small bandage it might keep it from freezing
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All they have to do is get the contents to 33* F...
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2016 Greyhawk 31FK
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08-24-2020, 09:28 AM
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#11
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Perry Hall
Posts: 3
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Hey! What type of skirting or manufacturer did you use? I’ve been looking at EZSnapdirect for winter camping. Suggestions?
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08-24-2020, 04:55 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: California Defector
Posts: 112
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Custom skirting is pretty expensive ($3,000.00-ish and up). Worth it if you plan to use often over the years. My coach is an '08 Seneca, and my goal was to keep the rear half as warm as possible because all of the plumbing was back there. I went cheap, and bought a 16' by 20' tarp from Lowes. Cut the tarp into 4, 20' strips, then used the outside storage door hooks to help set the tarp around the coach. I wrapped it around my forward stabilyzer jacks, and left the underside of the front cab exposed. Engine block was plugged in and diesel fuel freezing stabilyzer had been added. Wrapped skirting around the coach, and kept a portable heater under the plumbing lines 24/7. Also had a 5 amp heater in the wet bay storage compartment aimed specifically a the water pump. With the 2 additional portable heaters inside, and keeping cabinet doors under sinks open all night, we never froze for 2 full months in South Dakota winter snow. Good luck
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08-25-2020, 06:31 AM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Perry Hall
Posts: 3
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Thanks for the advice. My plan was to but the vinyl skirting to cut and attach myself using the snap hooks and Velcro for the overlapping. Also, I have weatherproof insulation that comes in rolls to line the inside under the trailer. For the gray water, black water and potable water hook up I have heated lines. With all this I hope to avoid any freezing. Any other suggestions welcome.
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08-25-2020, 07:41 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: California Defector
Posts: 112
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I've been told that even if you are using a heated hose as a hook-up, it will still freeze up if the hose is on the ground and in snow. Elevate it off the ground. Your coach's electrical might not be able to run two portable heaters inside at the same time. I made it work by plugging a surge protector bar to the microwave plug inside the cabinet above my sink. Plugged my second portable heater to the surge protector which then hung out of the cabinet. Almost never used our furnace because i did not want to use up the propane, and I don't have an extend-a-stave device. Leaving the cabinets under the sinks open all night allows the warmth from the portable heaters circulate around the water lines inside the coach.
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08-25-2020, 09:30 AM
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#15
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Perry Hall
Posts: 3
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Oh excellent advice, thank you
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08-25-2020, 11:51 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Denver
Posts: 4,217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Projectile83
Any other suggestions welcome.
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Make some practice runs!
We've been at 18*F and had nothing freeze, and then the next night it was windy and dropped to 14*F. Stuff froze.
I've been under our Greyhawk and managed to put pipe wrap on 90% of what pipes I could get too. I suspect the 10% uncovered was what succumbed to the 14* night.
When the weather cools down again, my next attempt will be to get under there and see if I can wrap some/most of the exposed pipe with heat-cable:
- The Quest for a Slightly Less Dumb Home
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