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Old 10-15-2020, 06:13 AM   #1
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Winterize Greyhawk using Utility Center

I went out to winterize my 2020 Greyhawk and can't get the siphon to work.


----------------------
I hooked up and blew air into the system (<40psi) to remove residual water.

Then I hooked up the siphon hose to the main water line, Utility Center valves are at 2 & 4 and started the water pump.

The pump does not pull the antifreeze out of the bottle. It doesn't seem like there is any suction.

I opened and shut a low point drain as the manual suggests, nothing.

I checked that all faucets etc were closed.

Any suggestions for other things to try?

Anyone else seen this problem?

What is the alternative approach to getting antifreeze into the system if this will not work?
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Old 10-15-2020, 06:22 AM   #2
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reverse the screened washer at the inlet this will let the screen will push on the backflow preventer and open it up it should work then
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Old 10-15-2020, 06:29 AM   #3
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Hi Don-- we talk again! I have a 2015 Melbourne 29D, perhaps different plumbing? but maybe fundamentally the same. Tricks I have learned; 1. After removing the water filter, I have to NOT bypass the housing to get antifreeze to suck. 2. At the hose hook up, remove the screen, push the one way valve in with your fingernail to relieve back pressure, then re insert the screen BACKWARDS to hold the one way valve in. This has worked for me, before that, I had to go under the coach, unhook the suction hose from the water tank, and stick it in a antifreeze jug. actually, I would put 2-3 gallons in a bucket and suck from that.
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Old 10-15-2020, 06:41 AM   #4
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Clarification on winterizing

Randy,
Thanks yet again!
I think I reversed the screened washer, I was trying so many things, but will try again.

Water Filter
Do you mean that I should pull off the water filter, remove the filter and then replace the housing and NOT turn the water filter bypass valve to bypass???
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Old 10-15-2020, 07:13 AM   #5
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Utility center sanitize and winterize

Piggybacking on this thread as I have what is pretty much a silly question. Oddly enough I was just reading up on this in the owner's manual last night. With the utility center in my Greyhawk do I still need to open up the water heater "grill" and turn the corresponding knobs or is that what all those hoses in the utility center are for? I winterized last year and did all the switches at the water heater based on my lack of experience with a MH as compared to my old school tow behind I had.

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Old 10-15-2020, 07:20 AM   #6
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Utility Center and Water Heater bypass

Jim_in_Washington,
You still need to pull the drain plug and drain your water heater then bypass it with the valves down at the water heaters inlets.

The Utility Center does not bypass the heater, it controls how the inputs (city water and flush/sanitize) connections are managed.

Attached is a picture of mine bypassed.
Attached Thumbnails
Water Heater Bypassed 20191015_161508.jpg  
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Old 10-15-2020, 07:29 AM   #7
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Hi Don- On the water filter question. I remove my filter, and leave the valves NOT bypassed, then attach the housing-- so I guess a yes to your statement above.. On my vehicle that is the way I get the antifreeze to draw. Also, the flip the screen trick only works on mine if I hit the button with my fingernail to relief back pressure. I found the screen alone did not have the "push" to relieve the back pressure.
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Old 10-15-2020, 07:52 AM   #8
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I just went and looked at my utility center and said out loud "what was I thinking". For some reason I pictured bypass knobs, not the numbered positions. LOL oh well. Maybe I should really look at stuff before I post!
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Old 10-15-2020, 08:06 AM   #9
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On my Greyhawk, the valves before and after the filter housing are not "bypass" valves at all. They simply close off the water filter housing so you don't make as much of a mess when you change the filter.

Since the filter is located at the very entry into my water system, if I turn either one of those valves, I get NO water to the entire rig past that point.
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Old 10-15-2020, 09:40 AM   #10
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Getting clear on winterizing using the Utility Center

Camper_Bob & Randy,

Worked like a dream.

What happened?
In the process of winterizing I closed the valves on the water filter thinking that was a bypass. [why isnt there a bypass?].
I reached up in the cabinet not looking at how the valves were plumbed. As can be clearly seen if you look up into the cabinet the valves isolate the filter by shutting off the water into and out of it. As Bob points since that is connected directly to the city water connection, it shuts off water to the entire camper. This means that the 12V pump when trying to siphon is pulling against a closed valve under the bathroom sink isolating the Utility Center.

Here is what is in the Jayco manual now it makes sense...
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Winterizing with Antifreeze Method (with Utility Center)
1. Level the motorhome and drain the fresh water plumbing system.
2. Turn the water valves OFF on each side of the water filter canister. The canister is
located behind the utility center. Unscrew the canister and remove the filter. Reattach the empty canister and turn the water valves ON

__________________

I guess this time I am at fault for not following the instructions explicitly!


I don't know for sure if I had turned the screened washer around last time but I did this time and also pushed the check valve to release the pressure.
Yes, there was presure in the line??

This forum was yet again very helpful.

_____________

The correct process ** for winterizing your water system with AF [just to get it all in one place]:

AT THE WATER FILTER
  1. Turn off the water filter isolation valve
  2. Unscrew the filter housing
  3. Remove the filter from the housing
  4. Dump the water out of the housing
  5. Put a closed water bottle into the housing as a spacer (reduces the amount of AF in the filter housing).
  6. Replace the filter housing
  7. Turn the water filter valves back on

AT THE UTILITY CENTER
  1. Remove the screened washer from the City Water connection
  2. Push the small check valve in the City Water connections opening to release any pressure
  3. Replace the screened washer with the screen facing inward. (opens the check valve)
  4. Connect the siphon hose to the city water connection
  5. Connect the other end of the siphon into the AF bottle ensuring the end of the tube is kept under the liquid the entire time of filling.
  6. Turn the control valves to 2 &4
  7. Start the 12V pump
  8. You should see the level of AF in the bottle start to lower.
  9. It may take quite a while for the water system to fully fill with AF
  10. Open the hot and cold water in the kitchen, bathroom, shower and outdoor shower until it runs red.
  11. Flush the toilet until AF is flowing in the bowl
  12. Turn off the water pump
  13. Remove the siphon from the city connection
  14. Turn the screened washer around with the screen pointing outward
  15. Put a cup of AF into all the sinks

** Most of this process was aided by other members posts. Thank you!

Now sit back and stare at the RV while you pay for it to sit in the snow!
Attached Thumbnails
20201015_081416.jpg   20201015_081804.jpg  
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Old 10-15-2020, 10:08 AM   #11
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My practice at the RV dealership (more then 250 units) is as follows, because there are always boneheaded RV's which are not the norm, e.g. pump is just sucking air.
Us an auxiliary pump (same pump you have on board) connected to the city inlet port (all valves in the correct setting or fittings made to correct the flow to wards the pump) and suction into the bottle anti-freeze. In normal condition there is always liquid in the pump itself to create suction, so that is the first option, if not go to the other suggestion.
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Old 10-15-2020, 10:34 AM   #12
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Hi Don... I wish Jayco would detail the process as you did in your last post. ALJO's tip would be great too if plan A wasn't working. Having this site as a resource over the years has been very helpful. I live in the boonies, 100 miles from a dealer and have had to figure things out and do repairs on my own. I kind of enjoy that anyway- before retirement, I was an off road vehicle engineer, welder, fabricator, and ASE Master Auto tech. I still enjoy, or shall I say love working on things.
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Old 10-20-2020, 02:44 PM   #13
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On my 2015 Greyhawk, even with turning the inlet screen around, for some reason this year I couldn't the pump to prime no matter what I tried. I picked up a manual bypass kit and installed at the input to the pump like I had on my previous trailers and made the appropriate selections on the utility panel and it worked great to winterize. The water lines to and from the filter canister are gravity drained, the filter canister is empty and shouldn't be a problem with freezing.
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Old 11-01-2020, 03:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by don_kleinschnitz View Post
Camper_Bob & Randy,

Worked like a dream.

What happened?
In the process of winterizing I closed the valves on the water filter thinking that was a bypass. [why isnt there a bypass?].
I reached up in the cabinet not looking at how the valves were plumbed. As can be clearly seen if you look up into the cabinet the valves isolate the filter by shutting off the water into and out of it. As Bob points since that is connected directly to the city water connection, it shuts off water to the entire camper. This means that the 12V pump when trying to siphon is pulling against a closed valve under the bathroom sink isolating the Utility Center.

Here is what is in the Jayco manual now it makes sense...
__________________

Winterizing with Antifreeze Method (with Utility Center)
1. Level the motorhome and drain the fresh water plumbing system.
2. Turn the water valves OFF on each side of the water filter canister. The canister is
located behind the utility center. Unscrew the canister and remove the filter. Reattach the empty canister and turn the water valves ON

__________________

I guess this time I am at fault for not following the instructions explicitly!


I don't know for sure if I had turned the screened washer around last time but I did this time and also pushed the check valve to release the pressure.
Yes, there was presure in the line??

This forum was yet again very helpful.

_____________

The correct process ** for winterizing your water system with AF [just to get it all in one place]:

AT THE WATER FILTER
  1. Turn off the water filter isolation valve
  2. Unscrew the filter housing
  3. Remove the filter from the housing
  4. Dump the water out of the housing
  5. Put a closed water bottle into the housing as a spacer (reduces the amount of AF in the filter housing).
  6. Replace the filter housing
  7. Turn the water filter valves back on

AT THE UTILITY CENTER
  1. Remove the screened washer from the City Water connection
  2. Push the small check valve in the City Water connections opening to release any pressure
  3. Replace the screened washer with the screen facing inward. (opens the check valve)
  4. Connect the siphon hose to the city water connection
  5. Connect the other end of the siphon into the AF bottle ensuring the end of the tube is kept under the liquid the entire time of filling.
  6. Turn the control valves to 2 &4
  7. Start the 12V pump
  8. You should see the level of AF in the bottle start to lower.
  9. It may take quite a while for the water system to fully fill with AF
  10. Open the hot and cold water in the kitchen, bathroom, shower and outdoor shower until it runs red.
  11. Flush the toilet until AF is flowing in the bowl
  12. Turn off the water pump
  13. Remove the siphon from the city connection
  14. Turn the screened washer around with the screen pointing outward
  15. Put a cup of AF into all the sinks

** Most of this process was aided by other members posts. Thank you!

Now sit back and stare at the RV while you pay for it to sit in the snow!
Do you need a special wrench to remove the filter housing?
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Old 11-02-2020, 10:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Donniepate View Post
Do you need a special wrench to remove the filter housing?



Need? Probably not if you've got good wrist strength or a strap wrench. But, our filter system came with a wrench that grabs the raised ridges on the sides of the filter.
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Old 11-02-2020, 10:35 AM   #16
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I tried to open mine up with my hands last time I was messing around with it. And while I CAN do it (I have the strength and can get the leverage), it's easier with the wrench. I'm able to hold the "head" of the housing so as not to torque the pipes and fittings while I unscrew it with the wrench. It's just a little easier that way. DW put a command hook on the inside of the cabinet door that holds that wrench for storage, so it's always right there at hand when I need it.

And you don't need to do the whole job with the wrench, that's a bit of a pain. You just need to "break" it loose with the wrench and do the rest by hand.

Have something below it to catch the water too. No matter how careful you think you are, you will spill some water. I just reach up and grab an extra hand towel from the sink area. But then my filter is under the bathroom sink, so that helps too.
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Old 11-04-2020, 03:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Berjr View Post
reverse the screened washer at the inlet this will let the screen will push on the backflow preventer and open it up it should work then
Also my Redhawk valves have to be in siphon mode not winterize to suck it up!
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Old 11-04-2020, 06:53 PM   #18
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We had a similar problem last year. We purchased our 2019 greyhalk at the Hersey trailer show in 2018. We picked it up in December and it was winterized, when we went to winterize it last year we were unable and had a private company come to winterize it, It was discovered the water pump was installed upside down and would not suction the antifreeze, he used another method to winterize it most likely the same way it was done at the place we purchased it. It is now in for repairs
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Old 11-05-2020, 07:33 PM   #19
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Had the same problem with my 2014 Greyhawk 31DS. I found the siphon hose needed to be screwed tightly to the intake or it will suck air around the threads and not siphon the antifreeze. Air in the plumbing makes it difficult for the water pump to do its job.
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Old 11-06-2020, 08:55 AM   #20
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For those who may be interested, you can get a bypass plate for the filter canister.


Example:
https://www.amazon.com/Watts-FP-WP10.../dp/B001QY1LA2


If you choose to you could leave it in place and switch to an outside waterline filter instead of trying to squeeze yourself under the bathroom sink twice a year.
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