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Old 11-07-2021, 10:08 AM   #1
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Winterizing Issues

I am having issues winterizing my Greyhawk 30x.

I blew out the system with air but I also want to add the antifreeze.

I have screen flipped but it seems to not want to suck in the fluid. I swapped out with a new pump and mesh screen, but still having issues.

After I replaced the pump , it seemed to pull about quart but then seemed to stop. It seems like it is not pressurizing the system but I can find the reason. The low point drains are closed.

Any suggestions? I have worked on this for days and searching the web , still very frustrated.

Please help.

Thanks
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Old 11-07-2021, 12:26 PM   #2
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About all I can do is share some experience. You flipped the screen to open the check valve. That's good.

Raise the jugs of AF up high, reduces load on pump.

Triple check for a loose hose or air leak. I really have to watch an snug up the small hose on mine. It'll work loose and let air in.

Lift the hose out of the AF jug and see if you can hear suction.

Pump on, run around and open/close/open faucets.
Sorry, that's about all I can think of


Why did you replace the pump?
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Old 11-07-2021, 12:45 PM   #3
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I had the same issue recently and it turned out to be an air leak. I took the pump out and ran it on the bench from a battery. It pumped water fine from one bucket into another. After that I had to asume a suction leak. If that's the case, you have to check every fitting on the suction side. Mine was a loose PEX clamp. The connection looked fine and the clamp was ALMOST tight, but I could turn the PEX by hand with a lot of pressure. I replaced the PEX with braided vinyl (because that's all I had) and it's been fine since.

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...est-90923.html
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Old 11-07-2021, 01:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjkids View Post
I am having issues winterizing my Greyhawk 30x.

I blew out the system with air but I also want to add the antifreeze.

I have screen flipped but it seems to not want to suck in the fluid. I swapped out with a new pump and mesh screen, but still having issues.

After I replaced the pump , it seemed to pull about quart but then seemed to stop. It seems like it is not pressurizing the system but I can find the reason. The low point drains are closed.

Any suggestions? I have worked on this for days and searching the web , still very frustrated.

Please help.

Thanks
I started having the same issue at the tail end of my winterization this year and found the check valve spring pressue was pushing the reversed screen back toward the suction hose just enough to prevent solid flow from the antifreeze bottle. I added a second hose washer to bridge the gap and prevent push back and had no further issues.
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Old 11-07-2021, 01:56 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by pconroy View Post
About all I can do is share some experience. You flipped the screen to open the check valve. That's good.

Raise the jugs of AF up high, reduces load on pump.

Triple check for a loose hose or air leak. I really have to watch an snug up the small hose on mine. It'll work loose and let air in.

Lift the hose out of the AF jug and see if you can hear suction.

Pump on, run around and open/close/open faucets.
Sorry, that's about all I can think of


Why did you replace the pump?

We never go dry camping and figured it may have a stuck valve since it was not useful and trying to eliminate something. Now I also have a spare:-)
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Old 11-07-2021, 06:43 PM   #6
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Not the check valve

I removed the check valve inlet and replaced with a straight pipe, ití did not make a difference.
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Old 11-07-2021, 08:26 PM   #7
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Are the water heater bypass valves working correctly, and in the right configuration?
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Old 11-07-2021, 09:44 PM   #8
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I have used one of these in the years past for a similar issue. Squeeze the bulb to prime the pump and then it will suck the container empty... at least that was my results although I don't use af anymore, just air. You will need to put a fitting on the end for a water hose connection.



https://www.amazon.com/TIHOOD-Assemb..._t4_B093SW967Q

I used this adapter, which I still have for blowing out the lines. It should fit the above hose according to the sizing of each.

https://www.amazon.com/Lead-Free-Win...s%2C156&sr=1-7

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Old 11-07-2021, 10:45 PM   #9
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Are the water heater bypass valves working correctly, and in the right configuration?
Yes just double checked that tonight.

I found a plumbing diagram on this site that illustrated the flow through the components. I need to check the water filter, I remember seeing some red drips under the canister.

I will check that next.

Thanks
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Old 11-08-2021, 07:14 AM   #10
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Just curious, why put AF in the system after blowing out the lines? For the water pump?
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Old 11-08-2021, 09:03 AM   #11
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Just curious, why put AF in the system after blowing out the lines? For the water pump?
My spin is that there is always some water left behind, and some condensation of air in the lines as ambient temps drop. If that's enough water to collect in a low point then you do risk pipe rupture at that spot, particularly in climates with very cold temps. (Ice continues to expand as temps drop further below freezing.)

The previous owners of our 29mv had to replace the on-demand hot water heater even though the blew out the lines. All it takes if one of those small tubes in the heat exchanger to freeze with a small amount of water in it and rupture it.
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Old 11-08-2021, 09:10 AM   #12
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My spin is that there is always some water left behind, and some condensation of air in the lines as ambient temps drop. If that's enough water to collect in a low point then you do risk pipe rupture at that spot, particularly in climates with very cold temps. (Ice continues to expand as temps drop further below freezing.)

The previous owners of our 29mv had to replace the on-demand hot water heater even though the blew out the lines. All it takes if one of those small tubes in the heat exchanger to freeze with a small amount of water in it and rupture it.
Ahh yes...the on-demand thing.
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Old 11-08-2021, 09:21 AM   #13
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The air thing had me sketched when I first used it. I drove home with the low points open from our last trip and I'm assuming all the water made it's way out during the ride. Got home and tried blowing out the lines and got 2 drips from the kitchen sink and that was it. Kinda strange. I pumped about 60psi through it and nothing came out.
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:40 AM   #14
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My spin is that there is always some water left behind, and some condensation of air in the lines as ambient temps drop. If that's enough water to collect in a low point then you do risk pipe rupture at that spot, particularly in climates with very cold temps. (Ice continues to expand as temps drop further below freezing.)

This is a very common discussion point. You'll find people on both sides. Plenty of people blow their systems out and have no problems.


It's risk mitigation in my head: the cost of antifreeze is $7; the cost of a burst pipe would be a hundred times that, or more.



So I use the Pink Stuff.
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Old 11-08-2021, 10:35 PM   #15
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Problem resolved

I found the air leak in the system. I noticed a small amount of antifreeze leaking from the water filter canister. Remember, I had to remove the canister to discard the filter before winterizing.

I removed the canister and found that I-ring had a ripple allowing air to escape.

I have attached a photo. Hopefully this will help someone in the future. I sure spent plenty of time tracking it down.

Thank you for all your suggestions.
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Old 11-09-2021, 07:53 AM   #16
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When I use the onboard pump to draw antifreeze into the system, I open the cold water valve at the outdoor shower. This allows somewhere for the water or air in the pipes to go. It's easier on the pump.


I share the observation that when I first start the pump, it draws antifreeze out of the jug rather quickly. Then it seems to stop. For a long time. But I just keep the pump running, and eventually I get antifreeze flowing out of the outdoor shower. Then I proceed with purging the rest of the lines.

.
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Old 11-09-2021, 09:25 AM   #17
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When I use the onboard pump to draw antifreeze into the system, I open the cold water valve at the outdoor shower. This allows somewhere for the water or air in the pipes to go. It's easier on the pump.


I share the observation that when I first start the pump, it draws antifreeze out of the jug rather quickly. Then it seems to stop. For a long time. But I just keep the pump running, and eventually I get antifreeze flowing out of the outdoor shower. Then I proceed with purging the rest of the lines.

.

That's really good advice. I use the kitchen hot tap. Seems to be the one that primes most of the lines in ours.
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Old 11-13-2021, 01:39 PM   #18
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I agree with comment that you probably have an air leak. I do open the low point drains until I see AF coming out. Then close them and make sure I had AF commons out of all faucets.
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Old 11-13-2021, 01:52 PM   #19
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When using the onboard pump to draw antifreeze into the system, the pump is working rather hard.

There is a little filter mounted on the pump inlet. I could not believe all the scum and crap that was in mine.
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Old 11-13-2021, 01:54 PM   #20
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re: (OntheGo/ braided vinyl vs PEX) and being on the suction side, gravity fill, reinforced hose rated 200+PSI anyway, should be NO ISSUES EVER?
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