2016 36REQS On order as of yesterday - Page 7

imjustdave · 07-21-2015, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeNChelle

Still waiting to hear from Jayco what will be done for the repair on the side wall issue.

New problem: The space between the rear bumper of the TV and the front of the Pinnacle are MUCH tighter than my old 351 RLTS. If you're not 100% straight with the truck to trailer and the tailgate is down...... You WILL hit the camper. I have the step in my tailgate which makes it very heavy for my DW to hold partially open as I back up or pull out. Looks like a vented V-notched tailgate will be on order soon.

What hitch do you have some allow you to move it forward and aft. Maybe not the best idea if you need ride rite overloads but an option. Also maybe the 5th on the trailer has options to be moved.

imjustdave · 07-21-2015, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeNChelle

MantyGary, My truck is squatting onto the overloads really badly. Truck is dropping over 4" with the camper on it. My neighbor has the same truck so when I get the camper from the shop we're going to see how far his squats. Front tires feel loose as well as it feels like all the weight is on the rear.

Didn't catch which truck you have but 4 inches should make you level. How far down before hitting the overloads? Now that you have bags do you just make it level? I have always wondered how you decide how much to put in the bags.

djtho1 · 07-21-2015, 02:03 PM

There is a group of us that are having the same issues with the so-called leveling system in the toy haulers. In our experience, the system will not level side to side if it is more than 1.5 degrees off. With the hydraulic system on a different brand it would level from more than 4.0 degrees off level. The other issue, at least with the 2.0 system, is that it only uses 4 jacks to level, then uses the center jacks to stabilize. The system also requires 12.5 volts to operate, so if you are trying to level from just one battery, especially a group 24, the amp draw is too high and will drop the voltage, causing a premature fault. I have a Seismic 3712, and we are back to leveling with boards and then stabilizing with the "leveling" system.

We are unhappy enough with this setup compared to the hydraulic system that our next trailer may not be a Jayco because of this. It does not work as advertised and is a poor system. A Lippert tech told me that the hydraulic system is the "cadillac" and the electric system is the "chevrolet". I have gone back and forth with Jayco and Lippert about this and everyone says it is working properly according to the specs and do not want to look at it.

If you want to get a little more performance from it, you might try a direct hookup to the TV battery to get more amp draw. I also always plug the camper in before leveling, because at least I start with a higher voltage that way. This is an ongoing issue that Jayco is ignoring.

MikeNChelle · 07-21-2015, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imjustdave

Didn't catch which truck you have but 4 inches should make you level. How far down before hitting the overloads? Now that you have bags do you just make it level? I have always wondered how you decide how much to put in the bags.

I have a 2014 F-350 SD 4x4 Dually. There is about 2-3" before I am on the overloads. I measured the truck height empty and the brought it almost back to that when I filled the bags. Much much different ride

MikeNChelle · 07-21-2015, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djtho1

There is a group of us that are having the same issues with the so-called leveling system in the toy haulers. In our experience, the system will not level side to side if it is more than 1.5 degrees off. With the hydraulic system on a different brand it would level from more than 4.0 degrees off level. The other issue, at least with the 2.0 system, is that it only uses 4 jacks to level, then uses the center jacks to stabilize. The system also requires 12.5 volts to operate, so if you are trying to level from just one battery, especially a group 24, the amp draw is too high and will drop the voltage, causing a premature fault. I have a Seismic 3712, and we are back to leveling with boards and then stabilizing with the "leveling" system.
The 3.0 is about the same. It only uses the 4 jacks to level and then the center to stabilize. I did get it to work twice so far, but you cannot be more than 1% off grade or it will fault out.

We are unhappy enough with this setup compared to the hydraulic system that our next trailer may not be a Jayco because of this. It does not work as advertised and is a poor system. A Lippert tech told me that the hydraulic system is the "cadillac" and the electric system is the "chevrolet". I have gone back and forth with Jayco and Lippert about this and everyone says it is working properly according to the specs and do not want to look at it.

If you want to get a little more performance from it, you might try a direct hookup to the TV battery to get more amp draw. I also always plug the camper in before leveling, because at least I start with a higher voltage that way. This is an ongoing issue that Jayco is ignoring.

I always plug the camper in as well so the inverter will help keep my battery level up. I too keep being told the system is working properly. The manual says to start about level and the dealer says to start auto below level. The only times it worked properly was starting below level and putting wood blocks under all the jacks.

klassic · 07-21-2015, 03:38 PM

Mike.. I'm a week out from delivery of my new rig with 3.0
What should I look for when they show me that the 3.0 system is working fine?
Should I get them to put 2" under one side, to make it out of level and see if it still works correctly?

klassic · 07-21-2015, 03:46 PM

Why are the rear jacks involved in the leveling sequence?
I thought the whole point to 6 point leveling was the middle jacks put the pressure on the frame... i.e the rear part of the frame is still cantilevered at the axels, like it was designed for.
The frame isn't designed for pressure on the very back end. Would it not want to twist the frame??
Aren't the back jacks for the "stability" part?

MantyGary · 07-21-2015, 03:59 PM

It seems the electric system levels the RV front to back and side to side with the front and back jacks. Once the system is level, it lowers the middle jacks.

MikeNChelle · 07-21-2015, 04:00 PM

The front lifts first and gets close, the rears come down and out a lot of pressure on the ground, then the fronts lift again against the rear (usually where it amps out because it takes a lot more juice at this point) then all 4 corners then the middle. If you make it to the middle chances are good it will finish correctly. I would ask them to demonstrate it on un-level ground somewhere since I have yet to find a site that is level.

klassic · 07-21-2015, 04:13 PM

I see now the rear jacks are not at the "rear", but behind the wheels.

djtho1 · 07-21-2015, 07:42 PM

All of those issues sound typical of what we have experienced. The hydraulic system uses all three jacks on one side to lift, so there is no undue frame pressure. I am guessing that the electric system cannot do that because of the amp draw. The other thing that you will notice is that if the system faults out, there is no way, at least with the 2.0 system, to manually lower the middle jacks. I don't know if they have fixed that with the 3.0, but it becomes a major PIA sometimes. As I said, we are back to boards to get the camper level side to side, then use the system to primarily stabilize. In my opinion, very poorly thought out. If you are upgrading to get auto-leveling, I would recommend trying this system out thoroughly on a dealer lot in an unlevel (past 2 degrees, the control panel will tell you), and see if it will work for you. After using the hydraulic system, this system, um, sucks (sorry, could not think of a PC way to say it).

P25ct · 07-21-2015, 09:21 PM

I'm weighing in along with djtho1 as a 2014 vintage Sesimic 3914 owner with a 2.0 system. I've been battling this damn thing since literally the night I took it from the dealer in April 2014. Months of lost camping on a dealer lot for "repair". This will be a long winded post, so if interested in my findings read on. If not, here's my summary: simply the electrical systems don't have the lifting capability to level from many configurations. There are several factors that make this worse from serial number to serial number, but overall, there's a reason ALL (literally) other manufacturers of 40+ plus Toyhaulers and big 5ths use Level Up (hydraulics). Period. Now to the details...

Electrical: Lippert doesn't provide jack cables/harnesses or support cables other than provided in the kits. These are lengths matched to gauge. My rear jacks (3 and 4 feet aft of rear axle staggered) are easily 40 feet or more cable from the control board. They appear (confirming next week on my own) to be 10 gauge cables, maybe 8 at best. Look up recommended gauge for a 40 foot run at 12v for a 20 amp load. This gauge and run is causing a voltage drop at the rear jacks, thus sending sensed amperage up at the controller at high workloads and hitting the AMP limit and giving the dreaded out of stroke error (on a 2.0 this is just a dummy sensor looking at amperage where 3.0 knows position and therefor senses out of stroke with Hall effect). This is one factor reducing the systems ability. Second, spliced connections not done right or with corrosion from roads (if applicable). Third is the connection from battery to controller, also even with short run should be adequate gauge. Last, power source. Forget one battery. Two batteries full charge better. Three best, however this thing NEEDS 13.8v TV alternator power. It needs all the juice you can give it. Note: running generator or shore power does not power the system off the 12v converter (like say a slide room or lighting etc) It's wired so only power from ship is a 12v trickle to batteries, even with TV accessory 12v from truck, you're getting 13.8 v but very little current, negligible.

Mechanical: any corrosion (I have a good bit on rear jacks due to winter salty road spray due to delivery from Jayco to dealer and it sat for a month after) or wear will decrease the efficiency of the jacks. They need to be well lubed. For 2.0 system, blocks are not necessary (3.0 yes) because you can drop the inner leg darn near to ground, so the rear jacks will only need to extend minimal stroke. Finally on 2014s our rears are several feet behind rear axle. In my case one is 2 feet and other is 3.5 feet aft of rear axle. Installation guidelines for 3.0 specifically say the rear should be no more than 1 foot aft of rear axle. 2.0 system has no such requirement, however... Common sense says both systems work the same, thus should be tight to rear axle for best lever arm (back to physics) also for us with stagger in the rear (2 feet left and 3.5 feet right behind rear axle) this adds to instability and greater required forces to level the rig in the rear, and without a perfect geometry box formed by jacks, frame twist is likely (although minimal, still will occur).

My dealings with Jayco: its working per spec. Heavy emphasis on reasonably level ground prior to leveling. That's the big out. Also they replaced my control board, stating I had one from a bad run. This didn't help squat. Neither is going to admit to an under engineered or misinstalled product. It's just not going to happen

Lippert dealings: They won't come out with answers to my direct questions from above. They won't agree that jack placement is flawed (interesting they weld the jack mounts at Lippert and ship the frames with mounts already attached to Jayco). I've been told they weld to the manufacturers (Jayco) specs, regardless of their own recommendations for the system. That's the closest I got to, yes you're right, they're not places right if you read between the lines. I'm getting help from a friend that does high end vehicle electrical work for public safety vehicles (fire trucks etc). We are going to ring the system out electrically by taking voltages at several points (during high load prior to known error) and comparing them to other points in the system to determine voltage drop points in the wiring chain. My guess is at rear jacks there will be a significant drop. Also will check crimps, note the 3.0 has pre assembled harnesses and connectors both ends and 2.0 required crimping by installer from motor to cable assembly that goes to controller. A crappy crimp will choke voltage as well. I will report back as soon as I have data.

Lastly, I believe we need to stay close as a group of buyers who clearly did not receive a product we were led to believe we were purchasing. An auto leveling system, not a "post manual board leveling stabilizing jack system".

If after I exhaust all energy, attempts, and mostly patience and sanity with this issue. I'm either trading in for a Grand Design or Heartland (they own up to design flaws and make them right, unlike stubborn Jayco-"we don't use hydraulics") or I'm sending the rig out to Indiana at the Bigfoot facility to have a Bigfoot 6pt hydraulic TRUE leveling system installed. Unique about Bigfoot, each hydraulic jack has its own reservoir and pump system, so if a jack gets stuck, it can be retracted manually without affecting other jacks. Also no hydraulic lines to worry about leaking or running, all self contained in each jack point.

Told you it wouldn't be short.

Here's to many "AUTO LEVEL SUCCESS!" Messages!!!

Keep the good sharing of info coming.

MikeNChelle · 07-22-2015, 07:43 AM

Here's to many "AUTO LEVEL SUCCESS!" Messages!!! Amen to that!!!

On the 3.0 you can lower and retract the middle jacks by holding the left and right buttons at the same time. If your finger slips while doing this it will send a fault to the system. What's one more? I have only had three "AUTO LEVEL SUCCESS!" messages out of over 20+ attempts. The pressure it puts on the camper is crazy when leveling. The unit creeks and cracks very loudly. This system is one of the two reasons we traded what we thought was up. Bigger fridge and "Auto leveling" system. The outside door will bind along with the bedroom door sometimes making it impossible to exit / enter said doors. DW was trapped in the bedroom for about an hour because the door striker became jammed after the system tried to auto level. Not a fan at all of this 3.0 system. We also almost bought the Grand Design Solitude. The only reason we didn't is because the company is only 3 years old.

Bubba75 · 07-23-2015, 07:44 PM

All I have to say is WOW!We just ordered a new 36reqs little over a week ago.I really hope maybe they have worked on some of these issues especially after we had a ton of issues with the previous 5er.I guess maybe no one builds a quality rig anymore.Im not sure my wife and I can deal with all that stress again.

MikeNChelle · 07-27-2015, 09:04 AM

This weekend was the FIRST I've ever had "Auto Level Success on the first attempt. Getting better at this. It sure does creek and crack a lot while it's moving things to level.
I did notice in the front closet the ceiling isn't attached. I can see about 20 staples, but none of them hit their mark. That looks like it should've been done before the front cap was installed.
The "Entry light" switch being low by the steps when entering is a nice add, but there should also be one on the wall above there as well. Having to open the cover on the switch panel every time to turn the lights on and off when you're already inside is a real pain. Trying to explain to people where the switch is takes longer than doing yourself.
Cabinets could've been deeper to hold more items. Oh well I'll learn to deal with it.
At least the A/C works well and keeps the camper a balmy 66* when it's 100* outside with 90% humidity.

klassic · 08-01-2015, 07:56 PM

I've only auto leveled on level ground (my driveway)
This thing is AWESOME!
I hope it's the same at a camp site

AUTO LEVEL SUCCESS three times
And way faster then I thought

MantyGary · 08-01-2015, 09:54 PM

I auto leveled in my driveway, but when I got to the campground, I got the dreaded "LF Jack Error." Didn't know how to clear it. I got home and called Lippert. The young lady said that when I "home" the trailer, it has to be on level ground. I told here it was in my driveway, I had blocks under the drivers side wheels and the coach is now sitting level side to side. She repeated it had to be level. So she gave me instructions on how to clear the jack error and said to call back after I'd done the steps.

Luckily, I live on a dead end, so I parked the fiver in the middle of the street so it was level side to side and the road does not slope. I extended all the jacks 10 to 12 inches, as she directed, then retracted them and that cleared the error.

I called Lippert back and talked to another CS person. He walked me through the homing procedure. We did it five times, but were able to get the AUTO LEVEL SUCCESS on the last two attempts. He was very patient and stuck with me until I was sure the system worked.

I then pulled the RV into driveway, which is not level. I put blocks under the wheels to get close to level, then went through the auto-level sequence agan and the system worked--without putting blocks under any of the legs. I'm keeping my fingers crossed...

P25ct · 08-02-2015, 09:06 AM

What if you didn't put blocks under the wheels in the driveway? It's a leveling system. Leveling it should do without blocks. It sounds like this is the 3.0 system with the round actuators?

MantyGary · 08-02-2015, 09:29 AM

Yes it is the 3.0 Lippert electric system. The manufacturer states you should try to get the 5er as level as possible prior to auto-leveling--so that's why I put the blocks under the wheels.

MikeNChelle · 08-03-2015, 11:00 AM

My buddy is looking at a new camper. It's not a Jayco, but they offer the Lippert 3.0 electric thing I am having issues with or the Lippert Hydraulic system. After watching all of the problems I have from week to week he is opting for the hydraulic system. I don't blame him at all.

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