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Old 11-17-2020, 07:56 PM   #1
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2020 Pinnacle A/C Issues

We have a 2020 Pinnacle 36KPTS purchased almost a year ago and have noticed what we feel is poor performance from the living room a/c. We've taken it to our dealer twice now and they've been very cooperative in trying to isolate a problem but have been unsuccessful up to this point. To date, they have performed an air flow test, a temperature check of air at the vents, an amp draw check and, most recently, ran a camera through the ductwork to check for any blockage. No issues found. Upon my recommendation, the service advisor ran the primary a/c only for several hours on a day where the temps were low 70's and the inside temp never got below 68 degrees.

Any ideas what the culprit might be? Any Pinnacle owners experiencing the same thing?
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:27 AM   #2
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If you're getting the 15 to 20 degree temp drop across the coil the a/c is working as designed. You didn't mention the thermostat, has that been checked?
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:53 AM   #3
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Is this temp a thermostat reading or independent temp probe. My thermostat rarely reads lower when itís warm out, but you can hang meat in the trailer. My thermostat is across from the door. No vents, warm door, and heat rising from the basement through the stairs.
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:06 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replies. We haven't checked the temps with an independent probe. Currently we've just gone by the readings in the BMPro. I'm picking her up from the dealer today and will ask them about checking the readings in the BMPro or checking the wall thermistors as well as asking about the temp readings across the coil. We're taking her out for a week starting Sunday and will be doing some performance comparisons between he 2 units.

As for hanging meat in the trailer, the bedroom a/c would probably get that low but no way with the living room a/c. Before we took the trailer back to the dealer this last time, we had the trailer in our enclosed shop here at the house. With an outside temp of 82 degrees, we let the main a/c unit run for over 2 hours and it dropped the temp 2 degrees. The unit ran continuously, never shut off. Fired up the bedroom a/c and it dropped the temp a couple of degrees in about 20 - 30 minutes.
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:10 AM   #5
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Thanks for the replies. We haven't checked the temps with an independent probe. Currently we've just gone by the readings in the BMPro. I'm picking her up from the dealer today and will ask them about checking the readings in the BMPro or checking the wall thermistors as well as asking about the temp readings across the coil. We're taking her out for a week starting Sunday and will be doing some performance comparisons between he 2 units.

As for hanging meat in the trailer, the bedroom a/c would probably get that low but no way with the living room a/c. Before we took the trailer back to the dealer this last time, we had the trailer in our enclosed shop here at the house. With an outside temp of 82 degrees, we let the main a/c unit run for over 2 hours and it dropped the temp 2 degrees. The unit ran continuously, never shut off. Fired up the bedroom a/c and it dropped the temp a couple of degrees in about 20 - 30 minutes.
I have the same problem in our Eagle 355mbqs with the Whisperquiet AC in the living room. Dealer has checked it out several times and it still does not perform like I think it should. Well, it may be performing but I don't think it's cooling the living room down like it should. And I don't have a solution to fix this so I'm no help. Just venting. (no pun intended, lol)
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:03 AM   #6
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Airxcell puts out a document on their website that is used by a tech to evaluate the air conditioner performance. It must be done/completed for warranty consideration. It is looking at evaporator temperature differences (temp drop across the evaporator coil which should be 16 to 22 degrees F), line voltage (should be 103.5 to 126.5 VAC) and compressor amperage draw (compared to rated load amperage and outside air temperature). This process was done when our bedroom A/C unit quit cooling and was eventually replaced under warranty,
Airxcell has a technical library on their website with a lot of good information in various products they sell which can be used to do a bit of self diagnosis.
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Old 11-21-2020, 03:25 PM   #7
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Thanks Radar. A Jayco rep sent a "Performance Worksheet" for the dealer to complete but it doesn't have a line to complete for evaporator temp differences, just outside temp, temp at return grill, and temp at supply register.

I might just end up having a mobile tech or one of the local dealers listed on the AirXcel web site take a look at it. Maybe a different set of eyes will catch something the dealer hasn't.

Thanks again to everyone for their replies!
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Old 11-21-2020, 04:49 PM   #8
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If the airflow is low it’s possible the partition between the supply and return air has a gap.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:10 PM   #9
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The airflow seems adequate, based on the dealers tests, and is comparable with the bedroom a/c airflow tests. Both are 15K units. What I don't know is if the airflow tests were done 10 minutes after the a/c's were turned on or after running for an hour or two. Wondering if the system might be "freezing up" after a while and restricting airflow. Plan to test that this week while camping.

Our Pinnacle has the whisper quiet a/c system and the dealer is reluctant to pull the a/c to check for restricted/poor airflow since the airflow tests seems pretty normal.
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Old 11-22-2020, 07:18 AM   #10
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temp at return grill, and temp at supply register.

Same as evaporator temp differences.
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Old 11-25-2020, 05:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 20 Penny View Post
Thanks Radar. A Jayco rep sent a "Performance Worksheet" for the dealer to complete but it doesn't have a line to complete for evaporator temp differences, just outside temp, temp at return grill, and temp at supply register.

I might just end up having a mobile tech or one of the local dealers listed on the AirXcel web site take a look at it. Maybe a different set of eyes will catch something the dealer hasn't.


Thanks again to everyone for their replies!

If you don't have one, get yourself a Infrared thermometer sensor gun. Cost is as low as $30-40 on Amazon. They are useful for many things besides A/C, like checking wheel hub temps at a rest stop, checking BBQ grill temps, or, nowadays, checking the forehead temperature of a visitor to your RV. Or even checking your pets if you're really bored.



If we think our A/C's are not performing, I simply point the gun at the inflow vents, the outflow vents, and if there is a delta of about 20 degrees, that stops the conversation right there. Otherwise, for us, its a frozen outside coil and we switch it to fan only for a time to thaw.


Your idea of calling an independent local mobile RV tech is a great one. If you can find with more than a few year's experience, they are better than a lot of dealers or even the RV manufacturer. My few calls to Jayco have been useless.



I can assure you that we have spent a long hot summer in southern coastal GA with temps over 100 F without a lick of shade and horrible humidity and we remained comfortable. So it can be done. Good luck with finding your problem and let us know.


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Old 11-26-2020, 09:22 AM   #12
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If you don't have one, get yourself a Infrared thermometer sensor gun.


I can assure you that we have spent a long hot summer in southern coastal GA with temps over 100 F without a lick of shade and horrible humidity and we remained comfortable. So it can be done. Good luck with finding your problem and let us know.
We have an infrared thermometer and use it often for the things you mention. Seems to be pretty accurate. Not that it matters but, for warranty claim purposes, Airxcell specifically states that an infrared gun is not to be used to record temps.


We've always been able to do this in the past as well but the times we've been out in our Pinnacle with temps in the mid 80's the A/C just hasn't been able to keep our rig cool unless we also run the bedroom unit.

We'll likely have to wait until spring when the temps go back up to address the issue. I'll certainly update what we find out.
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Old 11-28-2020, 01:16 PM   #13
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Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20 Penny View Post
We have a 2020 Pinnacle 36KPTS purchased almost a year ago and have noticed what we feel is poor performance from the living room a/c. We've taken it to our dealer twice now and they've been very cooperative in trying to isolate a problem but have been unsuccessful up to this point. To date, they have performed an air flow test, a temperature check of air at the vents, an amp draw check and, most recently, ran a camera through the ductwork to check for any blockage. No issues found. Upon my recommendation, the service advisor ran the primary a/c only for several hours on a day where the temps were low 70's and the inside temp never got below 68 degrees.

Any ideas what the culprit might be? Any Pinnacle owners experiencing the same thing?
The ac units are crap. Good thing for the Warrenty, I am getting a new one. Not sure if Dometic (garbage) of Coleman (a notch better. Also the cold air returns are IN THE CEILING!
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Old 11-28-2020, 01:52 PM   #14
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As for hanging meat in the trailer, the bedroom a/c would probably get that low but no way with the living room a/c. Before we took the trailer back to the dealer this last time, we had the trailer in our enclosed shop here at the house. With an outside temp of 82 degrees, we let the main a/c unit run for over 2 hours and it dropped the temp 2 degrees. The unit ran continuously, never shut off. Fired up the bedroom a/c and it dropped the temp a couple of degrees in about 20 - 30 minutes.

Back in November 2018, our 6 month old JayFeather 23RL began having A/C problems. We were at Texas Motor Speedway for the fall races. On Sunday while on generator, temps were in the mid-80's and when we returned to the campsite post race, it was about 75 degrees in the RV. Our dog was not uncomfortable, yet, but she was inside for four hours and hasn't figured out the thermostat...yet.
As the ambient temp cooled, the RV didn't. Following morning woke up to interior temp about 76 degrees, AC running, outside temp 59....hmmm.
Got the unit home, called Jayco, they opened a repair ticket. Local RV repairman looked at it said it needed starting capacitor for the compressor. Replaced it myself for under $10, versus 250 mile round trip to a shop that might take forever. So I proceeded to make plans and take trip to Scottsdale...Arizona.
Now mind you, I'm traveling and living in my TT. On the day before Thanksgiving the A/C took a dump, again. But this time, the compressor was running.At Camping World's suggestion, I called a mobile repair service in the Phoenix area and was asked if I could get on the roof and remove the AC cover. Yep, got it off. How many coils can you touch....all but the top two. Your 'cool pack' is shot. Translation: It has leaked all the refrigerant out of it. I can get you a replacement on Monday...Nope, I'm leaving on that day, but thanks.
Called Pharr's RV in Lubbock, made appointment and we spent from December 3rd until February 22nd getting assorted other stuff done, and a replacement AC unit. Picked up the TT, went back to Scottsdale and everything has been great since. Pharr's did 'forget' to put the strip heater in the new AC, but fixed in in the driveway on my return trip home. Who needs heat in Arizona, anyway....
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Old 11-28-2020, 06:58 PM   #15
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Having gone through a similar experience with my ac in a 100 degree day where the tt never got below 82 despite continuous running....I got on the phone.

After multiple calls to AC manufacturer, we concluded:
1. The sealed system was working as it should. Amp draw was right on target.
2. The ducts were probably leaking (yes... in rear bathroom)
3. Crap construction in the supply/air joint. (True. I cleaned up mess and used aluminum tape to smooth air floor and seal the separation divider).

There is nothing I can do about the 90 degree turns the foam-in roof duct channels have. But the rest I did address. I now have better air flow and a cooler trailer. There is also not much I can do about the way the ceiling vents are. I may put some baffles up there to help direct air to each vent... But not sure how much that will disturb the air flow overall.

Oh, I also spent 2 hours on roof straightening out the teeny weenie fins on the ac to help air flow there as well. I used a plastic tool normally used for removing car trim. Thin and won't hurt the fins.

All these ideas I got from the ac manufacturer rep on the phone. Advent AC unit. He was good.

So... Put your detective hat on and look over your ac system with these ideas in mind. Maybe you can find ways to help your ac work more efficiently. They are sealed systems. So if the amp draw on the system is normal, then the problem will be physical. Poor air flow is the biggest culprit.
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Old 11-29-2020, 02:01 AM   #16
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Air bypassing

Similar with somebody else on this thread mentioned have you checked to see if the piece that separates the warm air returning at the intake and the cold air leaving out the vents hasnít been moved or is not in the right position?

I was watching a video of somebody who is installing these inserts into their air conditioner that actually increases airflow through the system, itís an aftermarket device..... however what I saw watching the video is when they took the cover off to get up to this section, there was essentially a foam board piece that separated what I would call the hot side from the cold side and it had been laying over at an angle and they commented about how the air conditioner had not been performing well.

I would assume with all the troubleshooting that has been done they would have noticed that but just curious if that was confirmed.
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Old 11-29-2020, 12:20 PM   #17
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Look at the last news letter,(Jayco Owners Forum Newsletter Issue 265 - November 2020 - Week 47).There is a wealth of information on this subject there.
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Old 11-29-2020, 12:32 PM   #18
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Similar with somebody else on this thread mentioned have you checked to see if the piece that separates the warm air returning at the intake and the cold air leaving out the vents hasnít been moved or is not in the right position?

Here's the video:


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Old 11-29-2020, 06:11 PM   #19
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Yep, this is what I did it made it so much better.
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Old 11-29-2020, 06:16 PM   #20
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Some Pics I took all of my duct and remove them and put aluminum 3M tape around all of the holes, you be surprise what I found up in the ducts.
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