Black water rinse vacuum / check valve failure

[bill3kirk]

Rinsing the black water tank and found water running from the floor into the storage compartment and on top of the furnace (The furnace quit working afterwards)

What a mess...

I found the access hatch to the back of the shower and removed it it. I could sort of see the check valve line but since I wasn't sure what I was looking for....just investigating for water I didn't pay much attention to the fact it was leaning on the exterior wall. The back of the shower was dry and I really couldn't see the floor.

Ultimately I had to remove the shelving in the closest to get the side panel moved, to see what was going on. After I got the rinse line over where I could see, and turned on the rinse, water was going all over. Ordered a new valve and temporarily capped the rinse line.

But....what a terrible location, I'm going to relocate it.

And the furnace.....after taking it out it was dripping with water. I pulled the board, reset switch and sail switch and dried them all off. After waiting to make sure it was completely dry I reassembled and put it back in. To my amazement, it works.

[RetiredOne]

Those cheap, crappy backflow preventers Jayco has installed has been a problem for many people. Plus, as you found out, they hide them, which makes it really tough to fix/replace.

[Mopar_Earl]

Common to all brands. I removed them in all my units. I use a RV brass water inlet check valve on the back of the flush connection and completely eliminate the vac breaker and extra pex.

They will leak, it's just a matter of time.


Earl

[pitman44]

Replaced ours, but I'm of the opinion you need the vacuum break and a check valve. In residential code they're both required. This picture isn't mine, but is essentially what I did w/o using Sharkbites.

[Mopar_Earl]

Originally Posted by pitman44

Replaced ours, but I'm of the opinion you need the vacuum break and a check valve. In residential code they're both required. This picture isn't mine, but is essentially what I did w/o using Sharkbites.

Just remember, the vac break is what will eventually leak. Unless frost damage occurs.


Earl

[pitman44]

Originally Posted by Mopar_Earl

Just remember, the vac break is what will eventually leak. Unless frost damage occurs.


Earl

FWIW I have a residential HVAC business. We install lots of parts that will eventually fail. We install them because they're a code requirement and help to keep people safe. I used the brass components similar to what's shown in the picture because I feel they will last longer. Perhaps longer than the RV. YMMV

[TCNashville]

Originally Posted by pitman44

Replaced ours, but I'm of the opinion you need the vacuum break and a check valve. In residential code they're both required.

I'm just curious as to why the vacuum breaker is needed in an RV. I really don't know the function of the vacuum breaker but assumed it was a back flow prevention device. I did the same as MoparEarl and removed the leaky breaker and installed the check valve/back flow prevention at the hose source.

[Mopar_Earl]

Code or not, my trailer won't be flooded due to a vac breaker. Once was enough! RV codes may or may not follow the same codes as residential or commercial. Or state to state, county to county, boro to boro, city to city or town to town. Since the RV moves, your guess as good as anyone's if it's within code where you're at.

The toilet vac breaker is common to leak. But will only leak when you flush. So those I don't mind until they leak, due to some just suck to get to. Also tracking one down isn't always easy. Had one on my current trailer go bad. No one stocked the hand sprayer one. So I had to buy the one without then order and replace it with the correct one at a later time. So I kept the one without hand sprayer for a spare. The things that go wrong in a remote area on a weekend with no cell service. Lol spent half the day trying to find a toilet vac breaker. Unfortunately they aren't standard. Even the same brand doesn't use the same one across the models.


Earl

[RetiredOne]

Originally Posted by Mopar_Earl

Just remember, the vac break is what will eventually leak. Unless frost damage occurs.

Earl

Based on where they mount these things in some RVs, I believe it's best to remove them, to prevent water damage in the future.

Originally Posted by pitman44

FWIW I have a residential HVAC business. We install lots of parts that will eventually fail. We install them because they're a code requirement and help to keep people safe. I used the brass components similar to what's shown in the picture because I feel they will last longer. Perhaps longer than the RV. YMMV

The point is, these are RVs, not residential houses, so residential codes don't apply. Plus, many of these vacuum breakers are mounted in areas that are unaccessible, just waiting for an issue to happen. When you're outside flushing your black tank, you have no idea you're flooding your rig when they go bad.

[pitman44]

Originally Posted by TCNashville

I'm just curious as to why the vacuum breaker is needed in an RV. I really don't know the function of the vacuum breaker but assumed it was a back flow prevention device. I did the same as MoparEarl and removed the leaky breaker and installed the check valve/back flow prevention at the hose source.

Here's a good article on the whys and hows of a vacuum breaker. https://www.contractormag.com/codes/...tect-our-water

[rkelly]

Originally Posted by Mopar_Earl

Code or not, my trailer won't be flooded due to a vac breaker. Once was enough! RV codes may or may not follow the same codes as residential or commercial. Or state to state, county to county, boro to boro, city to city or town to town. Since the RV moves, your guess as good as anyone's if it's within code where you're at.

The toilet vac breaker is common to leak. But will only leak when you flush. So those I don't mind until they leak, due to some just suck to get to. Also tracking one down isn't always easy. Had one on my current trailer go bad. No one stocked the hand sprayer one. So I had to buy the one without then order and replace it with the correct one at a later time. So I kept the one without hand sprayer for a spare. The things that go wrong in a remote area on a weekend with no cell service. Lol spent half the day trying to find a toilet vac breaker. Unfortunately they aren't standard. Even the same brand doesn't use the same one across the models.


Earl

This may be a dumb question but how many are there in a 5th wheel?

[Mopar_Earl]

Originally Posted by rkelly

This may be a dumb question but how many are there in a 5th wheel?

Two vac breakers that I know of. The black flush and the one on the toilet. Toilet would only leak during flushing.


Earl

[Shokyle1]

Does anyone know off hand where this is located on a 2018 eagle ht fifthwheel. Want to replace mine before it becomes a problem.

[TCNashville]

Originally Posted by pitman44

Here's a good article on the whys and hows of a vacuum breaker. https://www.contractormag.com/codes/...tect-our-water

Thanks for the info, always nice to be better informed.

[Mnwelsh]

Replaced mine

[Mnwelsh]

The by pass. Both photos turned 90 degrees off

[Nature Ist]

Originally Posted by Shokyle1

Does anyone know off hand where this is located on a 2018 eagle ht fifthwheel. Want to replace mine before it becomes a problem.

Kyle,
It depends on the layout and specific model, but if your HT has a shower in a bathroom to the left of the stairs, it may be behind the shower in the corner near the shower valve. Best way to locate it is to follow the lines from the back side of your black tank flush hose connection. On my HT, the outside water command center is located below the shower level right under the shower, it's not hard to follow the lines from the flush connection, just follow it to wherever it goes up well above the floor level.

[Shokyle1]

Originally Posted by Nature Ist

Kyle,
It depends on the layout and specific model, but if your HT has a shower in a bathroom to the left of the stairs, it may be behind the shower in the corner near the shower valve. Best way to locate it is to follow the lines from the back side of your black tank flush hose connection. On my HT, the outside water command center is located below the shower level right under the shower, it's not hard to follow the lines from the flush connection, just follow it to wherever it goes up well above the floor level.

On your ht is there access to the shower valves behind the mirror in the main living area

[Nature Ist]

Originally Posted by Shokyle1

On your ht is there access to the shower valves behind the mirror in the main living area

Our shower is a corner unit with round doors, the back corner is on the outside and kitchen hutch wall, so there is no access from the backside. To reach the backflow preventer I would have to remove the shower valve escutcheon, and even then it might be very hard to work on. It might require disconnecting the lines in the basement and pulling the entire thing out. I have no idea if it is fastened to anything. I will have to look up in there with my endoscope camera to see what I might be up against.

[Shokyle1]

Sounds like from the stairs forward our units are the same I have a 29.5 bhds. Thanks for the help. My next days off I will dig into this.