Eagle HT Separation Issue Update

[SeventyGTX]

Just thought I would bring this back to the top to let people know there may be a serious problem after doing this mod. After getting mine all put togther with longer screws, I now have no running lights or backup camera. It keeps blowing a fuse in my truck. I have done everything I can think of to trace the issue, but it is buried deep inside the RV somewhere. I know they issue is not with my truck as it also blows the fuse on my Jeep Liberty when I plug it into it.

I even purchased an Endoscope to try and look inside from the pin box.
Unfortunately all the insulation prevented me from seeing anything from the pin box side. I pulled the right front marker lamp and looked in that hole and are green and white wires running along the inside. The green is the marker lights. So somewhere something got pinched or cut. I have an appt for June 22 to take it an hour away to the nearest Jayco dealer. This is probably going to be a very expensive lesson learned. This sucks.

[triplebvalp]

That really does sux SeventyGTX.

[RoadrunnerII]

That sucks man!

RoadrunnerII

[SeventyGTX]

Yes it does suck guys. The worst part is we are getting ready to put our house on the market for a long out of state move. When our home sells, we planned on living in the 5th wheel until we find another place. On a good note, it still have brake and turn signals so can still be towed in daylight.

Oh and triplebvalp, when I pulled the marker light, I could see the steel I had to drill through. It looks like angle iron with the upper aluminum frame just a couple millimeters above it. I knew the second layer was much easier to drill through than the first.

[triplebvalp]

Originally Posted by SeventyGTX

Oh and triplebvalp, when I pulled the marker light, I could see the steel I had to drill through. It looks like angle iron with the upper aluminum frame just a couple millimeters above it. I knew the second layer was much easier to drill through than the first.

As I've said in the past … that's interesting. Jayco must have made a change in the front end design sometime in 2017. Ours was built in February of 2017 … when was yours built? Regardless, it is what it is and I hate it that you are going through this. BTW, I'm just curious … is there anyway to pull down the overhang and take a better look for your wire issue? Perhaps down far enough to get the camera in the void.

[SeventyGTX]

Originally Posted by triplebvalp

As I've said in the past … that's interesting. Jayco must have made a change in the front end design sometime in 2017. Ours was built in February of 2017 … when was yours built? Regardless, it is what it is and I hate it that you are going through this. BTW, I'm just curious … is there anyway to pull down the overhang and take a better look for your wire issue? Perhaps down far enough to get the camera in the void.

Sorry, I just now saw your questions. Ours was built 9/16. You can see the both the steel and aluminum framing in the front storage compartment in the pic below. They are held together with screws.

I'm getting to where I am not sure where the short is. After looking inside where I installed the screws with an endoscope from what I can tell, there is no wiring in that area. Just the wires for the light I removed to look inside and they look fine. Plus the 3" screws I installed appear to end in boxed aluminum. So, I'm at a loss what to do with no place to inspect the wiring except the pin box and at the lights themselves.

Don't think I can pull down any of the overhang without a ton of work. Even removing the lower metal paneling would reveal the plywood above it, which is screwed in from the top. Then I fear even if I did, I would find nothing wrong.

I have read horror stories about the Jayco dealer near me as well as just about every other repair facility within 100 miles. My wife was reading about completely re-wiring the running lights, but that would be a massive job and would never look right. This is stressful.

[triplebvalp]

Originally Posted by SeventyGTX

Sorry, I just now saw your questions. Ours was built 9/16. You can see the both the steel and aluminum framing in the front storage compartment in the pic below. They are held together with screws.

I'm getting to where I am not sure where the short is. After looking inside where I installed the screws with an endoscope from what I can tell, there is no wiring in that area. Just the wires for the light I removed to look inside and they look fine. Plus the 3" screws I installed appear to end in boxed aluminum. So, I'm at a loss what to do with no place to inspect the wiring except the pin box and at the lights themselves.

Don't think I can pull down any of the overhang without a ton of work.]

Looks like they did make a mid-year change. Seems as if I remember the light wiring running full length of the FW right above the belly material. I don't remember how it got from the pin box, across the over hang, and then down to the under belly.

[SeventyGTX]

Originally Posted by triplebvalp

Looks like they did make a mid-year change. Seems as if I remember the light wiring running full length of the FW right above the belly material. I don't remember how it got from the pin box, across the over hang, and then down to the under belly.

The wiring on mine from the pin box heads across the overhang towards the passenger side corner. Then the wiring I need disappears into oblivion. I think I mentioned earlier, removing the panel in the front compartment revealed some wiring, but only running light wires for the 4 prong plug at the trailer hitch. That all goes underneath along the frame. I even pulled my backup camera out to possibly see if something was amiss at that connection.

[triplebvalp]

Originally Posted by SeventyGTX

The wiring on mine from the pin box heads across the overhang towards....

I think you touched on this but, I wonder if Jayco could supply a detailed 12vdc wiring schematic.

[SeventyGTX]

Originally Posted by triplebvalp

I think you touched on this but, I wonder if Jayco could supply a detailed 12vdc wiring schematic.

My experience with them when I was looking for a 2nd AC wiring schematic was shakey at best. No details of where the wiring is specifically located, just where it comes from and connects to. The only electrical mods I have done is adding the 2nd AC and two dimmer switches which should have no effect on running light wiring.

[triplebvalp]

Originally Posted by SeventyGTX

My experience with them when I was looking for a 2nd AC wiring schematic was shakey at best. No details of where the wiring is specifically located, just where it comes from and connects to. The only electrical mods I have done is adding the 2nd AC and two dimmer switches which should have no effect on running light wiring.

Yep, know what you mean ... The schematics are somewhat generic. At least Jayco will provide schematics to the end user, Keystone will not.

[R&D]

Going back to the original problem: the separation of the lower trim piece from the sidewalls based solely on if the unit’s weight is on or off the pin-box… We just went through resolving this issue ourselves. As you all know, Jayco is well aware of this particular issue as well as the underlying cause of it (the level 2 technician didn’t even read my email because he already knew what the repair procedure was, more below). In our case, the underlying issue was not the length of the screws that hold the molding in place, it is the fact that they used sheet metal screws instead of “structural” screws during the manufacturing process to secure the sidewalls to the frame. The complete failure of these sheet metal screws allowed the sidewalls to float above the frame. This excessive flex would cause a gap of 1/2” to 3/4” between the sidewalls and the lower trim piece just by putting weight on and off the pin box.

The first response and suggested solution was as follows: “There is actually a known fix for this issue. The screws originally put into your gooseneck to hold the trim on were deemed too short. The fix is to replace with longer screws to better hold that piece to your unit” … This solution implies you simply need to replace the original screws holding the molding on with longer screws, right? What it fails to tell you is the root cause of the issue which is, there are sheet metal screws inside above the molding/aluminum skin/plywood that have failed. Additionally, there is a piece of angled steel welded to the frame which the aluminum tubing in the wall sets on and there is also an airgap between this piece of angled steel and the plywood the molding screws anchor to. The problem with this repair approach is the head of the screws you use will never actually bind to anything other than the molding and over time they are also prone to potential failure, backing out, or could even add additional stress to the exterior walls instead of the frame where it belongs.

Time and ease of repair are the only two benefits of this approach and if this method of repair is used, it should take roughly 3 hours to complete depending on the comfort level of the person doing the work. As a prior aircraft mechanic, this didn’t seem like a permanent solution.

The second solution provided by their level 2 Customer Support Tech was as follows: “Run 4 inch-6 inch self tapping grade 8 screws into the existing pilot holes and add additional holes in the steel lip between the existing holes and into the frame”… To gain access to the “steel lip” the technician was referring to, all of the molding, aluminum skin, plywood, and insulation had to come off. Once everything was removed, we found that all of the sheet metal screws securing the walls to the frame had failed. These screws were replaced with type F 1/4-20x3 floorboard screws which were long enough to anchor the walls back to the angle steel that is welded to the frame.

Even though this is a more involved process, the root cause of the issue is repaired. The entire process to disassemble, repair, and reassemble the unit took 16 hours to complete at a certified facility.

Two additional issues believed to be related to the movement of the wall include both the Schwintek slide screws coming loose which hold it in the wall and a stress crack starting on the forward side of the Schwintek slide. The slide screws were an easy fix but after contacting Jayco about how to fix the crack in the sidewall, the following response was received: “I have touched base with management again regarding your concern and was advised that due to the issue both not being noted within the warranty period and being almost 2 years beyond the warranty expiration that Jayco respectfully declines participation.” Signed by the Warranty Advisor.

Rant… As a consumer, I would much rather pay a little extra upfront for something knowing there were better materials vs paying a lot for repairs out of pocket after the warranty runs out. Especially when a decision in the manufacturing process was made to literally save a $1.00. A little better technical support after purchasing something new would also be nice…

See picture…

[SeventyGTX]

Not shocked in the least they declined warranty on it. We pay the price for their saving a buck. I went through that with Forest River as well on our previous Wildcat FW. But thanks for the diagrams, they confirm the steel that is in mine before the aluminum framing.

On another note, after further inspecting mine with an endoscope, it does NOT look like my repair did the wiring damage on mine. It may have been a mouse. Will know more when it gets repaired June 9th.

[Cincinnati Kid]

Originally Posted by R&D

Going back to the original problem: the separation of the lower trim piece from the sidewalls based solely on if the unit’s weight is on or off the pin-box… We just went through resolving this issue ourselves. As you all know, Jayco is well aware of this particular issue as well as the underlying cause of it (the level 2 technician didn’t even read my email because he already knew what the repair procedure was, more below). In our case, the underlying issue was not the length of the screws that hold the molding in place, it is the fact that they used sheet metal screws instead of “structural” screws during the manufacturing process to secure the sidewalls to the frame. The complete failure of these sheet metal screws allowed the sidewalls to float above the frame. This excessive flex would cause a gap of 1/2” to 3/4” between the sidewalls and the lower trim piece just by putting weight on and off the pin box.

The first response and suggested solution was as follows: “There is actually a known fix for this issue. The screws originally put into your gooseneck to hold the trim on were deemed too short. The fix is to replace with longer screws to better hold that piece to your unit” … This solution implies you simply need to replace the original screws holding the molding on with longer screws, right? What it fails to tell you is the root cause of the issue which is, there are sheet metal screws inside above the molding/aluminum skin/plywood that have failed. Additionally, there is a piece of angled steel welded to the frame which the aluminum tubing in the wall sets on and there is also an airgap between this piece of angled steel and the plywood the molding screws anchor to. The problem with this repair approach is the head of the screws you use will never actually bind to anything other than the molding and over time they are also prone to potential failure, backing out, or could even add additional stress to the exterior walls instead of the frame where it belongs.

Time and ease of repair are the only two benefits of this approach and if this method of repair is used, it should take roughly 3 hours to complete depending on the comfort level of the person doing the work. As a prior aircraft mechanic, this didn’t seem like a permanent solution.

The second solution provided by their level 2 Customer Support Tech was as follows: “Run 4 inch-6 inch self tapping grade 8 screws into the existing pilot holes and add additional holes in the steel lip between the existing holes and into the frame”… To gain access to the “steel lip” the technician was referring to, all of the molding, aluminum skin, plywood, and insulation had to come off. Once everything was removed, we found that all of the sheet metal screws securing the walls to the frame had failed. These screws were replaced with type F 1/4-20x3 floorboard screws which were long enough to anchor the walls back to the angle steel that is welded to the frame.

Even though this is a more involved process, the root cause of the issue is repaired. The entire process to disassemble, repair, and reassemble the unit took 16 hours to complete at a certified facility.

Two additional issues believed to be related to the movement of the wall include both the Schwintek slide screws coming loose which hold it in the wall and a stress crack starting on the forward side of the Schwintek slide. The slide screws were an easy fix but after contacting Jayco about how to fix the crack in the sidewall, the following response was received: “I have touched base with management again regarding your concern and was advised that due to the issue both not being noted within the warranty period and being almost 2 years beyond the warranty expiration that Jayco respectfully declines participation.” Signed by the Warranty Advisor.

Rant… As a consumer, I would much rather pay a little extra upfront for something knowing there were better materials vs paying a lot for repairs out of pocket after the warranty runs out. Especially when a decision in the manufacturing process was made to literally save a $1.00. A little better technical support after purchasing something new would also be nice…

See picture…

Thank you for the detailed explanation and the diagrams. In Feb. if this year, we had Jayco factory do the 1st repair, (long screws from the outside). It's holding so far, but I would feel much better about it if we had repair # 2. If it has to be disassembled and redone, I would really like to see regular bolts with Nylok nuts, to really prevent future movement.,
But like I said, zero new movement so far.

[eow]

Thanks for the detailed insights and sketches.

[69mach1]

Can you forward the pic and diagrams? I can’t make out what things are when I enlarge them due to reduced pixels �� Thanks ������

[Honch057]

Hi All 1st post here. Just wanted to tag my experience as of now. I have a 2019 Jayco 29.5 BHOK that I ordered at the Hershey Show and picked up in March of 19 at Fretz. Since the initial pick up i noticed moisture in the switch housing for the front lights located in the overhang. I removed the cover and caulked it. At the first use I identified water coming out of the nose area and then notified the dealer. When i brought it back for warrantee work they identified the nose was dropping as all have mentioned above. They performed the repair that employs installing 4 inch screws and then I took it home. After taking a trip from NJ to Myrtle I found the repair had failed. At this point it pulls away from the frame so much that you can see daylight behind the back trim when it is hooked to the truck. On the legs, it pulls almost all the way back. I also found that the roof to nose cap seem pulled away substantially and took a tube of dicor to fill in. I am unsure if this is related but wanted to put it out there. I have not brought it back to the dealer yet but will at the end of the season and will contact Jayco directly. I plan on pushing for a lifetime garantee on the repairs or a new trailer since I have been dealing with water since new. As an FYI, my brother also bought a Jayco at the same exact time ( little bigger MLOC) and he has the exact same roof to nose cap issue. Point is, as of 2019 this flexing is still a real problem. They need to be held accountable.

[IceOnFire]

I wanted to post my experience with this issue which has been pretty extensive. We first noticed first signs of separation 2 months after delivery in May 2018 of our 29.5BHOK model. We finally brought it in for service in Dec 2018 where larger deck screws were inserted per the instruction of Jayco.

By July 2019, the separation issue returned and we also noticed the inside stairs were separating from the walls. We took the unit in for service again in Oct 2019 for both issues which the dealer resolved. We did not obtain clear information on what action was performed.

By the summer of 2020, both issues returned and the separation was much worse than the original 2 times. By this time out 2-year warranty with Jayco expired. We originally decided not to purchase extended warranty with our dealership due to the fact that the workmanship of Service Dept is pretty bad. So last week we took our unit to a reputable non-Jayco authorized service center for a 2nd opinion. The feedback we received confirmed that we are dealing with a serious structural issue that should be addressed by Jayco and potentially Lippert due to the impact of the frame or a potentially broken weld. I also pointed out another issue which I spotted above the front storage compartment underneath the pinbox where screws are pulling out where (it looks like) the frame attaches to body.

Next steps: This issue should have been permanently addressed when we brought the unit for repairs. Since they were not, we feel Jayco in partnership with Lippert should be responsible for making appropriate repairs at no cost since this is a serious safety concern.

I wanted to find out everyone's experiences with Jayco and getting this issue resolved.

Here are some photos for reference:
-Separation on the drivers side is much worse than passenger side
-Gap between stairs and wall
-Screws securing frame to body coming loose

[chas111]

I’m keeping fingers crossed that mine stays “in place” after the longer screws were put in. I do have the extended warranty. However my issue started under original warranty and I’ve kept emails and dealer is aware of that in case it separates again.

[AJC]

I have just found this issue on our 27.5. Can anyone recommend a good authorized Jayco service center in the MD, VA DC area. I have a couple of issues I need checked out and have been informed by Jayco to use an authorized service center to do the work.

Thank you,
Tony Cullison