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Old 04-27-2016, 10:27 AM   #21
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Thanks RedHorse1- forgive me for the questions, but remember I am a gasser and never have owned a diesel - The def tank - where is it, and how much does this fluid cost? I assume this injection is an automatic process?


Please help with any other thoughts on "above and beyond costs" of owning a diesel. I keep hearing how much more they are to operate, so I am trying to find out where all the $$ comes from; or goes to

thanks in advance.
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:24 AM   #22
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Thanks RedHorse1- forgive me for the questions, but remember I am a gasser and never have owned a diesel - The def tank - where is it, and how much does this fluid cost? I assume this injection is an automatic process?


Please help with any other thoughts on "above and beyond costs" of owning a diesel. I keep hearing how much more they are to operate, so I am trying to find out where all the $$ comes from; or goes to

thanks in advance.
- Oil changes cost more because they use 3 gallons of oil but you can go 7500-15,000 between them so probably a wash on cost.
- Fuel filters every 15,000 around $100 give or take.
- DEF every 6000-7500 which is about $14 bulk or $22 if you get the jugs.

With gas and diesel the same price these days the MPG of the diesel (especially when towing) will more than make up that $144 extra every 15,000 miles!
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:39 AM   #23
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The vast majority of cost delta is not going to be the regular maintenance (maybe the oil changes, they are kind of a pain, but I do my own, only costs me ~$45 each: $34 for 3 gals oil (Costco) and $10 or so for oil filter (bought in bulk online)).

But generally the price delta on initial purchase is around $8000 or more. This alone makes the diesel far more expensive to own, especially when the fuel is nearly at par.

That said, it's SOOOO nice going up the mountain passes!

ETA: I didn't mention DEF... I always forget about that. My truck is a 2012 Ram... no DEF
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:47 AM   #24
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Awesome guys!! thanks for the info. That is a nominal cost for operation. I understand the initial markup, just didn't know what else to "not expect".
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:53 AM   #25
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The cost of DEF (urea) runs about $7 per gal or if you get the 2.5 gal jug its $10-$12 bucks in all the years I have run diesels that require it.

Todays diesel is not the diesel of old, they engines often went a million miles, today not happing, not that the engine cannot, but the rules, regs, add ons imposed by the govt have burdened down the engines from simple to complex and extremely complex. Complexity increases component failure, that is a fact. Wanna go a million miles then the turbo to water pump has to be a million mile unit and defect free.

Diesels are bigger and require bigger effort to work on. Friend just blew the engine on his truck. To work on the engine (replace) they pull the entire cab off the truck and lift it on a lift while the frame and engine remains on the floor.

Then there is the USA factor, again the govt stepped in and all but said no to diesel. Most of the rest of the world uses diesels and have been since WWII. Why our govt has kept them out so long, not sure, but been tough to import to the US. Many US cars are and have been offered with diesel for export but not available in the US. Also cheaper to work on a diesel outside the US due to the amount of diesel mechs.

Don't let that deter you. If you want serious RVing then diesel is the choice. I years I carried a Truck Camper in the bed of my F 350, it weighed in at 5500+ fully loaded and I pulled a trailer also. No one ever had to honk to get me out of the way. In the mountains I drove left lane. Having 800 lbs of torque at my foot made driving easy and far less stressful. My new truck has 860 lbs of torque and is a dream to drive loaded.


At SOME Wal Marts you can get a cheap oil change. At mine its $8 bucks for my F 350 IF I bring in or buy separate the oil and filter they only charge for the labor. But I live out in rural ranch country and F 350's and diesels are common.
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:13 PM   #26
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Thanks RedHorse1- forgive me for the questions, but remember I am a gasser and never have owned a diesel - The def tank - where is it I don't have one, but I believe the DEF filler is usually right next to the fuel filler., and how much does this fluid cost? I assume this injection is an automatic process? Yes. It is part of the 'regen' process to clean the particulate filter. It occurs automatically and the time/distance varies upon driving speeds and loads.


Please help with any other thoughts on "above and beyond costs" of owning a diesel. I keep hearing how much more they are to operate, so I am trying to find out where all the $$ comes from; or goes to Virtually every part and all of the labor (if you don't do it yourself) for anything 'under the hood' costs more for a diesel.

thanks in advance.
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- Oil changes cost more because they use 3 gallons of oil but you can go 7500-15,000 between them so probably a wash on cost. I'm admittedly 'old school' and get nervous going that many miles. I'd suggest routine oil analysis (~$29) before committing to that. Ford says if towing over 1,000 miles, it is special operating conditions requiring more frequent oil changes.
- Fuel filters every 15,000 around $100 give or take.
- DEF every 6000-7500 which is about $14 bulk or $22 if you get the jugs.

With gas and diesel the same price these days the MPG of the diesel (especially when towing) will more than make up that $144 extra every 15,000 miles!
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Old 04-27-2016, 02:43 PM   #27
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You can run a higher gear with the diesel which really helps on daily driver duties. F250 and F350 are the same truck with different springs. Add timbrens to the 250 and it's more than a stock 350. However, there are those pillar stickers to consider, and that is a whole different discussion.
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Old 04-27-2016, 03:46 PM   #28
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Just to pick nits...I don't think the DEF is part of the regen process. DEF is for NOx (oxides of nitrogen) reduction and I believe it is continuously injected into the exhaust and helps the catalytic converter take care of the NOx. NOx is a big issue for diesels because of the high combustion temps and the excess of air in the combustion chamber.

During regen, or exhaust cleaning as Ford calls it, fuel is injected into the exhaust where it burns in the cat and into the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) to burn off the soot accumulated there. During regen, Ford fires the injector in cyl 8 (IIRC) during the exhaust stroke to get the fuel into the exhaust. I believe GM has an separate injector to do it. I don't know how the Dodge engines do it.

Frequency of regen depends on the load on the engine...more load, more soot so the dpf needs cleaning more often. My F250 will regen about every 100 mi when towing our fiver, esp in the mountains. Not towing, it'll go 150 to 200 mi or more. Regens last about 15-20 miles at highway speeds, longer for slower speeds. I've read it uses about two gal of fuel for a regen but I don't know if that's true.

As to gas vs diesel, lots of good points so far here. IMO, I wouldn't tow a fiver with a gasser, esp in the mountains here in the west. As always, tho, YMMV...
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Old 04-27-2016, 09:15 PM   #29
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Diesel all they way. You'll love it. Def is cheap on sale for 5 dollars or non sale 7 for 2.5 gallons last about 5000 miles. Oil changes wash in price think i use 3 quarts more then my f150 change it half as often so actually save $$. Miles per gallon unloaded freeway 21mpg combo city freeway in summer 18.5 winter 17.6. Towing camper with lead foot because you can! Price less at 14 mpgs uphills down hills bring all bigger the better. Smile on your face very big....you can't go wrong. Resale value is awesome as well. I did a ton of research ask lots of questions verdict is Diesel all the way no worries just do it. You can pick up a slightly used one to save $$. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 04-29-2016, 04:04 AM   #30
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Just to pick nits...I don't think the DEF is part of the regen process. DEF is for NOx (oxides of nitrogen) reduction and I believe it is continuously injected into the exhaust and helps the catalytic converter take care of the NOx. NOx is a big issue for diesels because of the high combustion temps and the excess of air in the combustion chamber.

During regen, or exhaust cleaning as Ford calls it, fuel is injected into the exhaust where it burns in the cat and into the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) to burn off the soot accumulated there. During regen, Ford fires the injector in cyl 8 (IIRC) during the exhaust stroke to get the fuel into the exhaust. I believe GM has an separate injector to do it. I don't know how the Dodge engines do it.

Frequency of regen depends on the load on the engine...more load, more soot so the dpf needs cleaning more often. My F250 will regen about every 100 mi when towing our fiver, esp in the mountains. Not towing, it'll go 150 to 200 mi or more. Regens last about 15-20 miles at highway speeds, longer for slower speeds. I've read it uses about two gal of fuel for a regen but I don't know if that's true.

As to gas vs diesel, lots of good points so far here. IMO, I wouldn't tow a fiver with a gasser, esp in the mountains here in the west. As always, tho, YMMV...
Yup, true about the DEF and regen. You will use more DEF during a regen, but the def injection is not part of the regen process.

Cummins (dodge) injects their fuel for regen into the cylinder like Ford does. I belive the cummins being an inline 6 cylinder injects into each cylinder for regen fuel, and the Ford being a V8 injects into 1 bank (4cylinders) for regen fuel....i just dont remember which bank it is.
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