How to really empty your black tank

[Rock]

Maybe this is why new trucks are way high so u tow nose high to help dump!!! LOL.
Here is my question, how do u push up the bottom of your tank did u leave the bottom covering removed?
Earl,
Gotta do the same with mine, fill to the top several times to get it cleaned out. Sounds like a sagging tank problem.

[triplebvalp]

Originally Posted by Pamtha

@triplebvalp - we traded in our Montana HC for our Eagle, and you just gave me flashbacks. Dumping that black tank was always traumatic - it was like it was plumbed level and never came out more than a gentle flow, even when just water for flushing. I never thought of raising it -- but I don't miss it and we are loving our new Eagle.

Pamtha, you're right about the "gentle flow" ... takes about twice as long to dump compared to our Eagle. I kinda miss our Eagle although, I feel the Montana HC is built slightly better. It is 3' longer and about 1' taller with opposing slides ... there is a bunch more room in the Montanna. Annnnnd, a bunch more weight

[Marcel2011]

Hi we had that problem before, the remedies is when you moving before you go empty all the thank except the fresh water thank. An I put a bottle of pinesol an fill it with water up to 2/3 of the thank a drive to your next place an drained there all the light will be good!

[Swansong]

Experienced same issues.... but after doing the shackle upgrade to raise camper a few inches so the 2500 can fit better... I gained a tad nose high condition.... helped a lot.... now ... every few trips I return home and use a homemade pvc wand to stuff down toilet and give it a good fill and flush..... finally the less than desirable level lights work normal.....

[SoulReflection]

Got to give you credit for your determination to find a solution. Your posts have been detailed, entertaining and educational.

Our Montana FW had the same sensor problems as you described. We were in a permanent site at the time and would spend 4-5 days at one time. There was only my wife and myself. I would always empty gray and black tanks before left as well as run the tank flush for 5 to 10 minutes. Black tank consistently read 2/3 full.

I tried everything. The Geo Method, Magic Wand (in black tank) and spend a lot on water softener. Nothing helped.

Then it started in the gray tank so I bought sink strainers for the kitchen sinks, bathroom sink and shower. I even allowed all tanks to fill to capacity before emptying. I thought of going with outside tank monitors, but the rig had a sealed under belly and, even with my OCD, decided I had enough!

We have since downsized to a Jayco 22J MH. With this virus, we have not had a chance to used it more than 4 days. When we get to use it more, I will note the solutions that you and others have offered.

I am leaning toward the SeeLevel monitor system because the 1/3 led lights are not accurate enough.

[billcf7]

Originally Posted by Cavie

Make the dealer fix it. No reason to raise the front or push up on the tank!!!!

Most tanks are like this in rvs thats why you see some of the high end 5er manufacturers with sheet of plywood under the tanks before they are strapped to the frame

[brandsberg]

Sounds like an install problem or incorrect engineering by Jayco. In any case Jayco needs to make this fix. There is no way you should have to get under to push up anything!

[jimmoore13]

My two cents:

1) Brace your tanks. If they are sagging, sooner or later they will fail. If you ever use your freshwater tank, brace it, too. Many RV tanks have this sagging problem, and if you travel wet, they will eventually fail.

2) One way to really clean a tank is to "shove" a garden hose down the toilet while holding the flush valve open.
One of these "jet nozzles": https://www.acehardware.com/departme...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
One of these 90 degree adapters: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Camco-90-...hoCfpcQAvD_BwE
One of these hose extenders: https://www.amazon.com/Melnor-290KF-...20611800&psc=1
And a 1/4 turn ball valve: https://www.amazon.com/A1006-Heavy-G...34700218&psc=1
...will make a jet cleaning nozzle you can put down the toilet, into the black tank, and do a first rate job of cleaning out your tank of any remaining debris.

Bear in mind that a black tank flush or a black tank wand usually have small holes in the sprayer, but this home-made rig will really move some water with some force.

Last thought. Are you actually level? While the bulge in the bottom of the black tank might hold a couple gallons, it surely won't hold 15 gallons - unless it's on the verge of failure. This leads me to think your fiver is traveling nose down...not level when on the hitch. If you don't have them, a pair of these Hopkins levels - carefully installed - will tell the tale. https://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-08526...7870287&sr=8-2 You must, of course, be on level ground to determine hitch height adjustment. But the rest of the time, they will tell you what your situation is in every dump station.

If you're nose down on the hitch, you may be able to determine how far up you must go to achieve level...maybe even slightly nose high (an inch or so). You MIGHT have that much adjustment in your hitch. If so, and other factors don't prevent raising the hitch height, I'd recommend raising the hitch. That sure as hell would beat having to unhitch and drop the landing gear every time you're at a dump station. And it will give you more bed clearance in dicey situations.

It's also fair to ask if you tail's draggin' on your tow vehicle. I don't see info on your TV. Is it a 250/2500? One of those may well be rated to tow the 15,000 pounds of your rig's GVWR. If you drop the roughly 2200+++ pounds of ground hugging hitch weight onto the hitch, what happens to your TV? Perhaps you might benefit from some air bags or similar suspension assist to keep your butt from dragging and the fiver from traveling nose down. Even a 3500 dually will sag under that much weight. Just a thought. Not apples to apples, but 45 PSI in the bags on my half ton is just right to lever up the truck to "empty" ride height at the hitch (I don't use a WDH). I have about 600# on the ball and about 500# in the bed. The air bags make a world of difference....about a 4"+ lift from no air in the bags.

Perhaps your favorite campground and dump station have you parked going "downhill". If you can get your rig to tow level, the Hopkins levels will tattle on a nose-down dump station...and then you'll know to unhitch and drop the landing gear to get the nose up. And the Hopkins levels will tell you when you're high enough...level or an inch or two nose high should be good enough.

You can, of course perform this leveling trick and hitch adjustment using a 4' framing level in the doorway of the fiver while hitched up on "certified" level ground. But only the Hopkins (or similar) bubble levels on your fiver will CONVENIENTLY betray the fact that your dump station is NOT level...unless of course you just love your framing level.

If you want to verify - "certify" - that your chosen spot for testing is actually level, get out your handy dandy 4' framing level and about 50' of string. Use the string, stretched taught, to verify that the chosen spot is not "bowed" up or down...that it's straight, and then use the level in several spots to verify that the pavement is actually level. It may be harder than you think to find a level spot to setup your hitch height.

And when you get to the campground, if you don't have some fancy self leveling jacks (or even if you do), the Hopkins levels will help you dial in leveling. These are precise enough to be absolutely sure you are within a couple degrees of perfectly level...which, of course, is important if you have an absorption fridge.

This whole diatribe about "level" presumes you don't want to spend your time hitching, unhitching, dropping landing gear, retracting landing gear, rehitching...while a cast of thousands is waiting in line behind you at the dump station.

P.S. If I'm going where there's a dump station, I bring my own 50' "dirty" garden hose and some channel lock pliers to manhandle the hose on the wash station at the dump station. Many times these hoses have their threaded fittings on the business end cut off deliberately, so you can't add nozzles and such. Barring some crazy fitting on the hydrant end, I take theirs off and use mine...then of course put theirs back when I'm done. The pliers make that easy and fast.

That's 2 cents worth.

[imjustdave]

Part of an issue I can see as well is the drain is at 1 point if its the highest and you have a dip in the center causing even more space I can see 5-10 gallons remaining. Even a slight uneven the wrong way can pitch a lot of fluid.

My trailer seems to be ok on the Black tank side but the gray it dribbles out at slow rate, the last 10 gallons take forever it always seems.

Honestly the tanks should be sump style where everything is pointing down towards the drain no matter the angle, if the center section is always dipped down that should be the install point of the drain. This side port business is lame.

[trailmacs]

I have had many trailers and motor homes over the years and your issue is not normal. In fact highly abnormal. Neve have I heard or experienced this issue. Your routine is very unsanitary and frankly gross. You do not want to be down on the ground anywhere near a dump station. I have seen some major spills in my time. The tank should be installed such that it is very flat when the trailer is level or slight taper to the tank exit to ease Flow during dumping. Perhaps your tank is not mounted flat? Or perhaps your trailer is not level front to back as many drains are actually on the long side which makes the front to back angle very important. Also make sure to fill toilet two or three time completely filled then flush near the end of the drain process. You must always get 99.9% out during dumping. Good luck

[Fourkids&abeagle]

Thanks for the great write up and explanation, OP.

I think I will add this to my pro/con list regarding enclosed underbellies. Seems like trailers with enclosed tanks might not have as much of a problem because the choroplast is attached to each I-beam every 16” or so. Something to be aware of, anyway.

Also-I’d be curious to test your theory by emptying your tank the “normal” way, then getting it weighed, then empty your tank via the “push up the bulge” method and get it weighed again with everything else being equal. That would really tell you how much water is trapped in that tank.

Anyway, thanks again for a very thought provoking post.

[SUP]

Originally Posted by dkegel

Interesting story but I don't quite understand how I'd raise the front of my fifth wheel when at the dump station. It would be hooked up to my truck at that point. What am I missing?

Dave

Good point. Thinking the same thing. Besides that, not everyone's tanks are in the back and my underbelly is enclosed. A good rinsing wand does the trick for me.

[TGoldsbury]

reminds me of the Robin Williams movie RV. I had my wife watch it before our last trip, she almost didn't want to go. Great scene clip below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHgRmR024BE

[SUP]

Good one!

[Bill Johnson]

Can a piece of plywood be put on top of the bracing to keep the tanks flat on the bottom?

[hiltonkalusche]

I have a 2020 Eagle 355MBQS and I have noticed after dumping black tank still reads 1/3 full. Also seems like we get a bad odor after a couple of days without dumping. Has anyone else with the 355MBQS noticed this issue?

[Scottenj]

Originally Posted by Rock

Maybe this is why new trucks are way high so u tow nose high to help dump!!! LOL.
Here is my question, how do u push up the bottom of your tank did u leave the bottom covering removed?
Earl,
Gotta do the same with mine, fill to the top several times to get it cleaned out. Sounds like a sagging tank problem.

The underside covering is flexible, I know the black tank is on the entry side and I can see where the two cross braces are bolted to the I beams so I just push up in between them.

[Scottenj]

Originally Posted by Fourkids&abeagle

Thanks for the great write up and explanation, OP.

I think I will add this to my pro/con list regarding enclosed underbellies. Seems like trailers with enclosed tanks might not have as much of a problem because the choroplast is attached to each I-beam every 16” or so. Something to be aware of, anyway.

Also-I’d be curious to test your theory by emptying your tank the “normal” way, then getting it weighed, then empty your tank via the “push up the bulge” method and get it weighed again with everything else being equal. That would really tell you how much water is trapped in that tank.

Anyway, thanks again for a very thought provoking post.

I emptied it the normal way, then hooked up to a 30 gallon tote tank and raised the nose, got 15+ gallons out, then pushed up and got another 5. The tote tank was at least 2/3 full.

[Scottenj]

Originally Posted by jimmoore13

My two cents:

1) Brace your tanks. If they are sagging, sooner or later they will fail. If you ever use your freshwater tank, brace it, too. Many RV tanks have this sagging problem, and if you travel wet, they will eventually fail.

2) One way to really clean a tank is to "shove" a garden hose down the toilet while holding the flush valve open.
One of these "jet nozzles": https://www.acehardware.com/departme...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
One of these 90 degree adapters: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Camco-90-...hoCfpcQAvD_BwE
One of these hose extenders: https://www.amazon.com/Melnor-290KF-...20611800&psc=1
And a 1/4 turn ball valve: https://www.amazon.com/A1006-Heavy-G...34700218&psc=1
...will make a jet cleaning nozzle you can put down the toilet, into the black tank, and do a first rate job of cleaning out your tank of any remaining debris.

Bear in mind that a black tank flush or a black tank wand usually have small holes in the sprayer, but this home-made rig will really move some water with some force.

Last thought. Are you actually level? While the bulge in the bottom of the black tank might hold a couple gallons, it surely won't hold 15 gallons - unless it's on the verge of failure. This leads me to think your fiver is traveling nose down...not level when on the hitch. If you don't have them, a pair of these Hopkins levels - carefully installed - will tell the tale. https://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-08526...7870287&sr=8-2 You must, of course, be on level ground to determine hitch height adjustment. But the rest of the time, they will tell you what your situation is in every dump station.

If you're nose down on the hitch, you may be able to determine how far up you must go to achieve level...maybe even slightly nose high (an inch or so). You MIGHT have that much adjustment in your hitch. If so, and other factors don't prevent raising the hitch height, I'd recommend raising the hitch. That sure as hell would beat having to unhitch and drop the landing gear every time you're at a dump station. And it will give you more bed clearance in dicey situations.

It's also fair to ask if you tail's draggin' on your tow vehicle. I don't see info on your TV. Is it a 250/2500? One of those may well be rated to tow the 15,000 pounds of your rig's GVWR. If you drop the roughly 2200+++ pounds of ground hugging hitch weight onto the hitch, what happens to your TV? Perhaps you might benefit from some air bags or similar suspension assist to keep your butt from dragging and the fiver from traveling nose down. Even a 3500 dually will sag under that much weight. Just a thought. Not apples to apples, but 45 PSI in the bags on my half ton is just right to lever up the truck to "empty" ride height at the hitch (I don't use a WDH). I have about 600# on the ball and about 500# in the bed. The air bags make a world of difference....about a 4"+ lift from no air in the bags.

Perhaps your favorite campground and dump station have you parked going "downhill". If you can get your rig to tow level, the Hopkins levels will tattle on a nose-down dump station...and then you'll know to unhitch and drop the landing gear to get the nose up. And the Hopkins levels will tell you when you're high enough...level or an inch or two nose high should be good enough.

You can, of course perform this leveling trick and hitch adjustment using a 4' framing level in the doorway of the fiver while hitched up on "certified" level ground. But only the Hopkins (or similar) bubble levels on your fiver will CONVENIENTLY betray the fact that your dump station is NOT level...unless of course you just love your framing level.

If you want to verify - "certify" - that your chosen spot for testing is actually level, get out your handy dandy 4' framing level and about 50' of string. Use the string, stretched taught, to verify that the chosen spot is not "bowed" up or down...that it's straight, and then use the level in several spots to verify that the pavement is actually level. It may be harder than you think to find a level spot to setup your hitch height.

And when you get to the campground, if you don't have some fancy self leveling jacks (or even if you do), the Hopkins levels will help you dial in leveling. These are precise enough to be absolutely sure you are within a couple degrees of perfectly level...which, of course, is important if you have an absorption fridge.

This whole diatribe about "level" presumes you don't want to spend your time hitching, unhitching, dropping landing gear, retracting landing gear, rehitching...while a cast of thousands is waiting in line behind you at the dump station.

P.S. If I'm going where there's a dump station, I bring my own 50' "dirty" garden hose and some channel lock pliers to manhandle the hose on the wash station at the dump station. Many times these hoses have their threaded fittings on the business end cut off deliberately, so you can't add nozzles and such. Barring some crazy fitting on the hydrant end, I take theirs off and use mine...then of course put theirs back when I'm done. The pliers make that easy and fast.

That's 2 cents worth.

I tow with a 3500 dually and my whole rig tows level.

I have dumped at home with all six stabilizers down and the rig auto leveled and had the same problem.

I have made my own flush out wand like you describe and it didn’t help.

I still need to confirm this but I believe my line coming out of the tank is pitched up to get to the sewer line.

I tow empty tanks or as empty as I can make them

I am thinking of bracing the tank to get out the sag but also need to address the pitch of the outlet line if it really is up hill to the sewer line.

[Scottenj]

Originally Posted by hiltonkalusche

I have a 2020 Eagle 355MBQS and I have noticed after dumping black tank still reads 1/3 full. Also seems like we get a bad odor after a couple of days without dumping. Has anyone else with the 355MBQS noticed this issue?

I have a 355MBQS too, if you read from the beginning my 1/3 light came on - on the first trip and never went off again until I tilted up the nose. On our first trip this year we had really bad smells and what I now realize is the black tank was really a third full all winter and spring with the stuff decomposing.