I need some opinions on the fairness of a RV Service vendor.

[AV8R]

I need some opinions on the fairness of a RV Service vendor.

I have broken three spring hangers on different occasions, and on different fifth wheel trailers over the past fifteen years. The first two times I contacted a mobile welder, and a spring hanger was welded on at a reasonable price.

The third time was recent on a 2019 Jayco North Point. I contacted a mobile RV repair facility.

I spoke with the RV Service owner, Steve, regarding a broken spring hanger. Steve stopped by my campsite and looked at the broken spring hanger. He took a couple of measurements and said that one of his contractors, Michael, might have better solutions than just replacing the spring hanger.

Steve asked if I would be okay with Michael stopping by to talk about the other solution. I said it was fine for Michael to stop by to discuss other options, which was fundamentally a sales call to see if I wanted to buy an $1,800 suspension kit plus installation estimate of $800.00. I told Michael that I would consider it, but the immediate need was to have the broken hanger replaced.

I spoke with the RV service owner (Steve) and indicated that the first priority would be to have a new spring hanger welded on, and if I decided to have the beefed-up suspension kit installed, it could be done when I returned to the campground on my next trip, in about six weeks.

Steve indicated that he did not want to do the weld job himself, stating that if he did, everyone in the park would want him to weld something for them, because his welding equipment is extraordinarily loud, and because his welding skills are far too great to just weld a spring hanger on a fifth wheel. I indicated that I simply needed the hanger welded on and was happy to continue to support and patronize his business to have the job done.

Steve contracted with Michael for the job to weld a new spring hanger on the Jayco. Michael stated that the welding would cost between $400 and $600, which would include inspecting all of the other five spring hangers. Michael is not a welder and has no expertise in welding. Some people might question why Steve contracted with Michael, a long-time friend, to weld a spring hanger on the Jayco, knowing that Michael is not a welder.

Michael located a welder and contracted with him to weld the spring hanger on the Jayco. Essentially, Michael Googled ‘mobile welders,’ which I obviously could have done myself, since that is how I located the first two I had used previously. Michael did not know, and had zero experience using the welder he referred for this job.

On the day that the welding was to be done, I began to ready my Jayco for the job. I pulled in all of the slide-outs, readied the batteries to be disconnected before welding, I raised the Jayco with my 30,000 lb hydraulic jack. I removed the tire. I removed the wet bolt holding on the broken spring hanger and cleaned and prepped the area for the welding. I also had a garden hose hooked up and turned on for any fires.

The welder arrived first. He was alone. He had a truck with a welder and an electric generator. I asked the welder what the cost would be. He stated the cost would be $425.00. I asked about his experience. He had never welded a spring hanger on a travel trailer before. But he had seventeen years of experience welding. I asked him to look at the job and tell me if he was confident that he could do the job. He felt comfortable doing the job.

Although the welder was experienced, he arrived unprepared. He had no jacks or safety stands, nor did he have a fire extinguisher. Welding a suspension system involves welding around a significant amount of flammable grease. An additional hydraulic jack and safety stands would have been helpful too.

Michael arrived and Steven arrived shortly after. Steven also brought one of his employees. With six people, we had enough guys to build a pole barn. I was under the impression that the people in attendance were there to observe and learn, since none of them had previously welded a spring hanger on a travel trailer. I am always happy to participate in training, commonly referred to as ‘tech time.’

Michael did not bring any jacks, safety stands, or any other needed equipment for the job, nor did Steve. Steve went back to his shop to get a fire extinguisher and a floor jack. All of the tools and equipment needed to complete the job should have been coordinated with the welder, who was ultimately doing the job, days before. The only person who was necessary was the welder and me.

Most of the equipment, and all of the prep work, including the battery disconnect and reconnect was performed by me personally. I supplied the hydraulic jack and two safety stands. I raised the rig. I removed the tire, the wet bolt from the broken hanger and prepared the area for welding. None of the other people in the platoon arrived with any of that equipment. Had I not had the equipment and done the prep work, the welder would likely have left – unable to do the job.

It seemed like the job was put together by Steve haphazardly, unorganized, uncoordinated, with preference to use his friend, Michael, who was not necessary for this job. Steve contracted the welding to someone with little or no welding experience, and no welding expertise – Michael. Then, Michael, with no welding expertise hired the welder, whom he never used and didn’t know. The welder had never welded a spring hanger on a travel trailer. To compensate for the lack of expertise, an entire battalion of grown men showed up, and there still wasn’t adequate equipment.

I was quoted that the job to weld a spring hanger on my Jayco and inspect all other spring hangers would be between $400 and $600. When the welder arrived, I was told the job would be $425.00.

If I had even thought that the invoice would end up at roughly double the estimate, I would have passed and found my own welder, which I had done twice before. In both instances, it was an identical job on a Keystone Alpine at a cost of roughly $450 each time.

A couple of days later, Steve presented me with an invoice that was more than double the welders stated cost. His explanation was that everyone in attendance expected to be paid. None of them were necessary, and none of them had ever welded a spring hanger on a fifth wheel.

I was quoted a range of $400 to $600, and the welder confirmed the cost before starting the job at $425.

Is the customer responsible to pay for the mistakes, lack of coordination and errors of a vendor, and pay for people that were not a necessary part of the job?

Any opinions would be appreciated.

[Frosty42]

Anything in writing? If not, your only recourse is to not pay the added charges and roll the dice should they take you to small claims court. Assuming nothing was signed, they have no rights to file a lein on your property.

Personally, I would pay the welder and tell the others to get bent.

[Bugzilla46310]

To weld on gas pipeline you need to be qualified and requalified every 6 months. Believe the same is true for pressure vessels. I can’t believe that there is no such requirement for vehicle frames. What could go wrong? I would not weld on my frame due to my limited welding capabilities, which may be more than the welder you had. I do know some very qualified welders I would use. Some basic questions to ask the welder would be what stick (rod) are you using? What diameter stick? What heat setting? Any PWHT required? Will this effect the bearings? And then why for each question. If the welder can’t answer, go elsewhere.

[Stan&Sharon]

Originally Posted by Frosty42

Anything in writing? If not, your only recourse is to not pay the added charges and roll the dice should they take you to small claims court. Assuming nothing was signed, they have no rights to file a lein on your property. Personally, I would pay the welder and tell the others to get bent.

X2

[Old and soft]

X3. Bent is not the word I would use.

[Marcm157]

You were way more patient than I would have been. I would have ended this circus when the "Observers" showed up. As far as I see it, the welder who gave you the estimate is who you should pay assuming he completed the job to your satisfaction.

[jasum]

Originally Posted by Frosty42

Anything in writing? If not, your only recourse is to not pay the added charges and roll the dice should they take you to small claims court. Assuming nothing was signed, they have no rights to file a lein on your property.

Personally, I would pay the welder and tell the others to get bent.

X4

Think I would also put all of their names out there so no one else gets taken by any of them.

[Onyrlef]

I'd pay the welder and tell the peanut gallery and the hustler to go pound sand. Otherwise there's no such thing as a spring hanger certification, if he can lay a bead he spots the spring hanger in place then welds it, not exactly brain surgery and really the most basic kind of (hold my beer) weld. As for a lien, there's a zero to none probability that a hustler would go down that road.

[Yooper906]

It sounds like Steve, Michael and others were looking for an easy target. Don't be one. Pay the weldor and call it a day. I doubt much is going to come out of this.

[MtnGoat]

What a story! I would advertise these crooks on every RV site I could find.

[curver900]

WOW is all I can say! I would do as others have stated... pay the welder directly he did the work with a note to him that next time he goes to one of these fixes he brings the extra equipment to do the job.. jack, stands, boards etc.. and raise his fee to 450 to account for those items and time.

the others just ask him what he did to justify being paid....then he can submit a invoice for THAT work...

[mrpavette]

Not sure what the spring hanger is but, if it is what I’m thinking. It is no big deal for a experienced welder to weld. It’s also no issue checking the other spring hangers. I wouldn’t expect the mobile welder to have some of the equipment you said were needed. It would be the responsibility of Steve who contracted the welder. Except for the fire extinguisher. But than you said Steve and his crew were more observers. Not sure what price mobile welders charge, his price seemed high. I was a weld, machine shop and metal fabrication inspector for the military.

[TaftCoach]

Not that I agree but here's the opposing view.

Your contractor subbed out the job. Not uncommon on bigger jobs, but kind of silly on this. He hired a welder and other people he thought were necessary to make the repair. You negotiated with the contractor not his sub. Now you want (for good reason) to cut out the guy who did the arranging and everyone he contracted with

If this was a bigger job involving a welder, a plumber, and an electrician would you later negotiate with each guy the contractor sends over and cut him out after the fact? Perhaps the same principle applies. The contractor hired those other guys and will be paying them just like he's expecting to pay the welder.

Look at the shop rate for auto repairs. We know the mechanic doesn't get that $150 per hour. Now walk in and arrange to just pay the mechanic his $35 an hour and not pay the company.

Again, just offering the other side. Clearly the contractor was less knowledgeable than you. In hindsight you didn't need his services, but you did hire him.

[spoon059]

As I am reading your post and hearing about a contractor hiring a contractor who hired a contractor, I knew that you would be paying all of these guys, so I am not surprised at the cost. You received a quote from contractor #3, who was hired by contractor #2, who was hired by contractor #1. Each of those guys gets a piece of the pie.

Its always cheaper, though not always easier, to hire your own specialist directly. You have to go through the trouble of finding the guy and coordinating with him, but you don't have to pay anyone else other than him.

At the end of the day, from what I understand you should pay the cost. Contractor 1 and 2 didn't do much work, but they were hired to provide whatever meager service they offered.

[TaftCoach]

The welder will refuse payment from you if he wants to continue to work for that contractor. It would be highly unethical of him to go around the company that hired him. Anyone here who works for a paycheck, imagine one of your employer's customers paying you directly and telling your company they aren't paying the bill, they paid you instead. Same principle.

Crappy situation.