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05-18-2020, 08:49 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Winterhaven
Posts: 92
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Low voltage issues
Hello fellow Jayco owners. I wanted to recount my first encounter with a low voltage pedestal at an RV park. We checked into our new camp site which only has a 30 amp pedestal. We have a 2020 Jayco Eagle 355MBQS which is a 50 amp trailer. We plug in using a 50 amp EMS-PT50X Portable RV Surge Protector. I installed a 50 to 30 amp converter after the surge protector. When i plugged it in i noticed the voltage was at 114. My power first cut out the following morning. I read the voltage at the pedestal at 108. I didn't have any popped breakers and the power came back on its own after a few minutes. I'm pretty sure the surge protector was doing its job by cutting off power when it detected low voltage. I called the camp office and the maintenance guys said it was because i needed a 30 amp surge protector. After a lengthy foray online i learned that the 50 amp protector will work just fine with a 30 amp power source. $600 later i plugged in an autoformer which boosts the voltage by 10% of the input voltage. So now when the pedestal dips below 114 volts the autoformer will boost the voltage, so instead of 108 I have 118. I haven't had a single power issue since. I just wish it hadn't been so expensive.
Has anyone had a similar thing happen to them, and if so what was your solution?
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05-18-2020, 09:54 PM
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#2
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Lost in the Woods
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Ocean County
Posts: 2,807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujonaut
We checked into our new camp site which only has a 30 amp pedestal. We have a 2020 Jayco Eagle 355MBQS which is a 50 amp trailer. We plug in using a 50 amp EMS-PT50X Portable RV Surge Protector. I installed a 50 to 30 amp converter after the surge protector.
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OK, I'm confused... How did you plug in a 4 prong, 50 amp surge protector into a 30 amp, 3 prong pedestal?
Do you mean you put the 30 to 50 amp converter BEFORE the surge protector, so you could plug in the EMS?
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05-19-2020, 11:47 AM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Winterhaven
Posts: 92
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Correct, i plugged a male 30 amp with a 50 amp female adapter into the 30 amp pedestal. I plugged the 50 amp ems in to the adapter and I plugged my trailer into the ems.
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05-19-2020, 02:18 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Port Charlotte FL/Hinsdale MA.
Posts: 1,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujonaut
Hello fellow Jayco owners. I wanted to recount my first encounter with a low voltage pedestal at an RV park. We checked into our new camp site which only has a 30 amp pedestal. We have a 2020 Jayco Eagle 355MBQS which is a 50 amp trailer. We plug in using a 50 amp EMS-PT50X Portable RV Surge Protector. I installed a 50 to 30 amp converter after the surge protector. When i plugged it in i noticed the voltage was at 114. My power first cut out the following morning. I read the voltage at the pedestal at 108. I didn't have any popped breakers and the power came back on its own after a few minutes. I'm pretty sure the surge protector was doing its job by cutting off power when it detected low voltage. I called the camp office and the maintenance guys said it was because i needed a 30 amp surge protector. After a lengthy foray online i learned that the 50 amp protector will work just fine with a 30 amp power source. $600 later i plugged in an autoformer which boosts the voltage by 10% of the input voltage. So now when the pedestal dips below 114 volts the autoformer will boost the voltage, so instead of 108 I have 118. I haven't had a single power issue since. I just wish it hadn't been so expensive.
Has anyone had a similar thing happen to them, and if so what was your solution?
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The autoformer is the solution. Just be sure it is in front of the EMS. If it's after the EMS it can't boost if the EMS is shut down.
__________________
Retired Master Electrician and Building Inspector.
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BH
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05-19-2020, 04:24 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Saint Thomas, PA
Posts: 2,234
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They are nice but heavy and expensive. I pondered for a while about getting one. We rarely have an issue with low voltage.
Yep, the maintenance guy didn't have a clue. They have low voltage due to loose/bad connections, bad outlet, bad breaker or an undersized system.
Earl
__________________
2017 Eagle 293RKDS, factory ordered, lots of mods and upgrades. More than I can list.
2018 Ram 3500 crew cab long bed SRW diesel 6spd Aisin 4wd Tradesman.
B&W Ram puck 5th wheel
Line-X premium
Mopar wheel to wheel steps
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05-28-2020, 12:36 PM
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#6
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Winterhaven
Posts: 92
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Awesome, that's what i wanted to know. Thanks for the feedback.
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05-28-2020, 01:27 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar_Earl
They are nice but heavy and expensive. I pondered for a while about getting one. We rarely have an issue with low voltage.
Yep, the maintenance guy didn't have a clue. They have low voltage due to loose/bad connections, bad outlet, bad breaker or an undersized system.
Earl
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I have also seen low voltage on hot summer days, when everyone has their AC on, and the feeder just cannot handle it.
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05-29-2020, 05:27 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Saint Thomas, PA
Posts: 2,234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagiven
I have also seen low voltage on hot summer days, when everyone has their AC on, and the feeder just cannot handle it.
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Yep, that would be an undersized system. Either the campground or utility side. Most likely the campground grew beyond their utility and never got it updated. Especially old campgrounds which were 15/20 amp service back in the day. Now 30 and 50 amp.
Earl
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05-29-2020, 06:03 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Port Charlotte FL/Hinsdale MA.
Posts: 1,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar_earl
yep, that would be an undersized system. Either the campground or utility side. Most likely the campground grew beyond their utility and never got it updated. Especially old campgrounds which were 15/20 amp service back in the day. Now 30 and 50 amp.
Earl
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__________________
Retired Master Electrician and Building Inspector.
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BH
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06-01-2020, 07:35 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Las Cruces (soon...)
Posts: 802
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Spend your $600 at a different RV park, hopefully one with suitable infrastructure. Most will say that low voltage is an indication of substandard park wiring. If an RV park in the deep south did not think to wire their grid for a gazillion 50A Yankee rigs running both A/C's at once...
I'm sure that's why most Florida RV Parks that I have seen meter individual RV sites and bill extra for juice.
The use of autoformers is contentious to say the least. Go to any RV Electricity forum and when you see the subject come up, you might as well grab a six-pack, bowl of popcorn and a Nomex flame suit, because it's about to get ugly up until some moderator shuts the thread down.
Low voltage is dangerous to electronics, and that is about the only thing anyone can agree upon
__________________
Joan & Angus Campbell
Winters in Las Cruces, NM, traveling the rest
2019 Pinnacle 36SSWS "Diana"
2019 F350 DRW Lariat CC Long Bed Diesel "Sheila"
3 Chihuahuas and 4 cats
We don't camp, we don't glamp, we LIVE.
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06-01-2020, 09:54 PM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Winterhaven
Posts: 92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan617
Spend your $600 at a different RV park, hopefully one with suitable infrastructure. Most will say that low voltage is an indication of substandard park wiring. If an RV park in the deep south did not think to wire their grid for a gazillion 50A Yankee rigs running both A/C's at once...
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I though about going to a different park, but the choices for parks with long term stays and in proximity to my job are limited due to COVID. I also thought that if I ran into this problem at the second campground I've stayed at in my new trailer, it is a bit more widespread of a problem and worth the price.
Regardless of what happens with the autoformer i still have my EMS surge protector between it and my trailer (fingers crossed).
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06-01-2020, 10:16 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Port Charlotte FL/Hinsdale MA.
Posts: 1,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan617
Spend your $600 at a different RV park, hopefully one with suitable infrastructure. Most will say that low voltage is an indication of substandard park wiring. If an RV park in the deep south did not think to wire their grid for a gazillion 50A Yankee rigs running both A/C's at once...
I'm sure that's why most Florida RV Parks that I have seen meter individual RV sites and bill extra for juice.
The use of autoformers is contentious to say the least. Go to any RV Electricity forum and when you see the subject come up, you might as well grab a six-pack, bowl of popcorn and a Nomex flame suit, because it's about to get ugly up until some moderator shuts the thread down.
Low voltage is dangerous to electronics, and that is about the only thing anyone can agree upon
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Actually it's not the electronics. It's the motors in the A/C that low voltage causes the most damage with. Electronics have a pretty wide tolerance.
__________________
Retired Master Electrician and Building Inspector.
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BH
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06-02-2020, 03:01 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Las Cruces (soon...)
Posts: 802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavie
Actually it's not the electronics. It's the motors in the A/C that low voltage causes the most damage with. Electronics have a pretty wide tolerance.
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Right. Point taken, thanks.
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06-02-2020, 03:06 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Las Cruces (soon...)
Posts: 802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujonaut
I though about going to a different park, but the choices for parks with long term stays and in proximity to my job are limited due to COVID. I also thought that if I ran into this problem at the second campground I've stayed at in my new trailer, it is a bit more widespread of a problem and worth the price.
Regardless of what happens with the autoformer i still have my EMS surge protector between it and my trailer (fingers crossed).
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I can see that’s a tough call. We just spent 3 mos in a CG that was an older KOA from the 70’s but lucky for us the infrastructure was quite sound. EMS got us through just a few glitches. Got lucky then I guess.
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06-02-2020, 06:05 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Las Cruces (soon...)
Posts: 802
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Ouch. Woke up to red lights on the Surge Guard, indicating the MOV's are all used up and there is no more surge protection left. It would be great if they made an EMS that would log electrical events so we could see the accumulated hits. Would not be hard or expensive. The type of UPS (Uninterrutable Power Supply) that I used in my call centers did that very well. The blank clock display on the microwave indicates we took a hit last night.
Now to see if someone in Meridian, MS has the new Southwire Surge Guard with the RV-side protection (opens and shorts in the RV) and the bluetooth display.
Angus
__________________
Joan & Angus Campbell
Winters in Las Cruces, NM, traveling the rest
2019 Pinnacle 36SSWS "Diana"
2019 F350 DRW Lariat CC Long Bed Diesel "Sheila"
3 Chihuahuas and 4 cats
We don't camp, we don't glamp, we LIVE.
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06-07-2020, 05:21 AM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Woodruff
Posts: 40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan617
Ouch. Woke up to red lights on the Surge Guard, indicating the MOV's are all used up and there is no more surge protection left. It would be great if they made an EMS that would log electrical events so we could see the accumulated hits. Would not be hard or expensive. The type of UPS (Uninterrutable Power Supply) that I used in my call centers did that very well. The blank clock display on the microwave indicates we took a hit last night.
Now to see if someone in Meridian, MS has the new Southwire Surge Guard with the RV-side protection (opens and shorts in the RV) and the bluetooth display.
Angus
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Get the power watch dog from Hughs autoformers. https://hughesautoformers.com/product/pwd50-epo/
It has a user replaceable surge module.
I have one and it works great, takes care of spikes, and drops, and has an app to monitor power on each leg.
__________________
Home State South Carolina
2019 Ford F450 Lariat
2019 Jayco 381 DLQS
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06-07-2020, 06:15 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Port Charlotte FL/Hinsdale MA.
Posts: 1,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joan617
Ouch. Woke up to red lights on the Surge Guard, indicating the MOV's are all used up and there is no more surge protection left. It would be great if they made an EMS that would log electrical events so we could see the accumulated hits. Would not be hard or expensive. The type of UPS (Uninterrutable Power Supply) that I used in my call centers did that very well. The blank clock display on the microwave indicates we took a hit last night.
Now to see if someone in Meridian, MS has the new Southwire Surge Guard with the RV-side protection (opens and shorts in the RV) and the bluetooth display.
Angus
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Amazon is your friend and cheaper
__________________
Retired Master Electrician and Building Inspector.
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BH
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06-07-2020, 06:59 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 695
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We don't run much electricity through our little rig but I use an in-line surge protector to check the circuit and hopefully provide some protection.
I keep a volt meter plugged into my kitchen plug so I can see how much power is coming in.
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06-07-2020, 07:11 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Port Charlotte FL/Hinsdale MA.
Posts: 1,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollander Mutthaulers
We don't run much electricity through our little rig but I use an in-line surge protector to check the circuit and hopefully provide some protection.
I keep a volt meter plugged into my kitchen plug so I can see how much power is coming in.
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Have you been in my trailer???
__________________
Retired Master Electrician and Building Inspector.
2011 Keystone Sprinter 323 BH
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06-07-2020, 08:44 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Las Cruces (soon...)
Posts: 802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuckerbug
Get the power watch dog from Hughs autoformers. https://hughesautoformers.com/product/pwd50-epo/
It has a user replaceable surge module.
I have one and it works great, takes care of spikes, and drops, and has an app to monitor power on each leg.
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Respectfully, we went right away with a replacement SouthWire Surge Guard, this time with the newest one that provides RV-side fault monitoring and supports the optional remote monitor for inside the RV. Amazon sources were all third party sellers with long lead times, but we found a local RV dealer that could get one to their counter in 24 hours (albeit full retail). That was important because at the time I wrote my last post, there was literally thunder and lightning in the air.
The idea of the replaceable surge units in the Hughes' units is attractive, but there is also a school thought among some analysts that if an EMS unit got beat up enough to smoke all the MOV's then there is is likely accumulative damage to the rest of the electronics. Arguable, for sure.
The inside remote monitor has proven useful, since I can walk around the RV and turn on appliances and note not only their amperage draw, but see which leg they are wired to. Just about every major item; A/C, microwave, water heater, hair dryer, central vacuum, all seem to draw about 11-13 amps and appear to be split wisely between the two 50A legs.
We are now considering the purchase of a second EMS to act as a hot spare and simply amortizing the cost of a $400 unit every 18-24 months as part of our normal baseline utility budget.
Angus
Edit: Another little notable improvement with the new Surge Guard is that while it will still offer the 128 second delay before applying power (in order to spare the A/C compressor), it will now do so only after power has been re-applied following an unplanned interruption such as from High or low voltage. This way when setting up camp normally, power is available to start leveling after just ten seconds of analysis. It's a little thing but gets a beer in my hand a full two minutes sooner.
__________________
Joan & Angus Campbell
Winters in Las Cruces, NM, traveling the rest
2019 Pinnacle 36SSWS "Diana"
2019 F350 DRW Lariat CC Long Bed Diesel "Sheila"
3 Chihuahuas and 4 cats
We don't camp, we don't glamp, we LIVE.
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