Major brake problem

[klassic]

Subaru, as far as I know the 2015 controller has an extra setting in the menu for light, med and heavy or something like that? And then your gain settings 1-10?
Which I don't have in 2012. If I did it would be like I am set at "light" and I need to set to "heavy".
My other 2 f350's I used to tow at 7 and it was perfect.

Maybe a Mod will take these last bunch of posts that I hijacked Rock's thread with and make a new thread about Ford brake controller trouble.
I don't want to start a new one now cause there are so many good points brought up here

[TCNashville]

Originally Posted by klassic

Points back at the Ford. Again why I said I'm not crazy about installing a new controller because maybe the Ford wiring is the problem.
I could solve this if I new somebody with a known working heavy 5ver that I could pull. And they pull mine.
The dealer is no help with that plan.
5 years I've been waiting for such a moment, I'm not asking someone I don't know in a campground to do it.

Klassic, I have the same year truck as you. In "12, I bought the new F-250 and my Eagle. Bought the truck first and when I went to tow my old trailer to the dealership to trade it in, I couldn't feel any braking at all with the ITBC. Somethings wrong so I took the truck back to the dealership and they tested everything and all had proper voltage. My previous truck had the aftermarket controller [inertia] and you could feel the trailer tug on the truck. When I picked up the new trailer and before I left the parking lot, I used the manual slide on the IBTC with the gain set at 5 and could feel the tug of the trailer brakes, although slight. I set the gain to 10 and although the brakes would not lock up, the truck would not move in drive from a stop, so I knew the brakes were working. The way it was explained to me on the Ford and Diesel Forums is that the IBTC works in conjunction with the antilock braking system for a nice, smooth [not jerky] stop. Not sure I buy that but I've only had 1 emergency stopping experience with the pedal down as far as I could push it and all stopped fairly quickly. My Eagle is 10k loaded. Like you, I know my 7 pin is sending the proper voltage to the trailer brakes, it was just a different braking experience for me not to feel the tug. Have you tried pulling the emergency disconnect pin? [Make sure you have a battery installed] You should be able to hear the brakes on the trailer engage thus eliminating that end of it. Terry

[klassic]

Interesting Nashville.
I have pulled the pin and it made for more solid braking while moving from a stand still, but I could still move it with the truck with a lot of effort. I have 750 lbs of torque in front of me.

With just the lever squeezed I can actually drive away. The brakes are dragging, but I can still pull it with a little effort. If my slider is sticky I can't hold the rig hard enough to slide the hitch.

I had a full on petal to the floor moment with my previous 5ver on I90. Semi locked up his brakes, I was far enough behind I could have stopped without a trailer, so it wasn't like I was tailgating. I could feel the trailer pushing me. It was a good thing there was plenty of paved shoulder cause it pushed me right up to his cab. I felt no trailer brakes.

(Really sorry for hijacking your thread Rock )

I guess I need to tell more of my long story.
I had to take my SOB in for warranty work back to the factory (the funny part is it was Dalengale from this forum)
It is 7 hours away from me. I took it there with my 2009 f350 with a built in controller set at 7. Perfect braking.
I had to leave it there for 3 months (Dale works slow LOL!)
During this 3 months (2011) I bought my 2012 (and Dale retired from the company)

This is the important part of the story...I came back with a brand new truck to pick up my old trailer that just had brand new axels and brakes installed.

When I went to pick the trailer up it was getting close to 5pm, I got a personal factory tour, then went to hook up my trailer with the new brakes, amongst a bunch of other repairs. One of them involved welding at the front.

So after I hooked up, the guy at the factory took off, and I pulled out with my controller at 7, just like my last 2 f350's. Why would it be any different?
Tested the brakes and I had REALLY bad brakes.
I just figured they were out of adjustment. The guy was gone, there was nothing I could do, so I drove home carefully set at 10.

When I got home I took the trailer to a trailer shop and told them what went down and to adjust the brakes. He did and said they weren't out of adjustment.
So I called the guy at the 5ver factory and told him the story and he UPS'd me another set of brand new Lippert backing plates.

Took my trailer back to the trailer shop. He said he would take the Lippert brakes in exchange for his Dexters, because he deals with Dexter.
All done.. Still no change.
He checked all the wiring. Thought maybe the front to axel wire wasn't good, because (if your paying attention to this long story) I had some welding done on the front frame, and maybe damaged the wire. So he pulled a new 10ga back and still no change.
Took the brakes apart again, burnished, cleaned...still no change.
One thing he didn't do is hook up another truck to test it.

Off I went, he didn't charge me a dime.
I went to Ford under warranty ...they blew me off.
I couldn't figure it out.
Drove like that for 5 years. They got a little better over time from getting worked in, but far from me ever setting my controller at 7 again.

After the close call with the semi, I had had enough and figured somethings wrong with the trailer, because Ford told me nothing's wrong with the controller.
I traded the SOB in last August and drove the NorthPoint off the lot.. Guess what POOR BRAKES. Exactly the same braking. Maybe a hair better.

I got the dealer to take them apart twice..the second time was to burnish and clean the drums.
Still no better.
I went back to Ford AGAIN!
Out of warranty, they aren't looking at a thing unless I pay. I told the service manager the story, he says yep, that how the brakes work. Like I'm an idiot.
He said he would ask Ford engineering if there are any known issues. He never called me back. He doesn't return my calls.
I'm done with those idiots, they don't know how a controller is suppose to work anyway.
I want to talk to a Ford engineer myself, Ford cust service won't let me..I've complained in on going Ford brake controller threads, that have no solution, and get replies from Ford customer service forum watchers and they say they will look into it until they see my serial number is Canadian and that's the end of that, they can't help Canadians.

There is more to the story, I've left out bits, but I'm sure this wasn't an easy read or really all that interesting.

Thanks for helping though!

[ALJO]

Klassic: how much did you run your North Point? The brakes might not even be broken in yet? On Ford truck forums you might find information on the internal brake controller.
The internal brake controller controls also the trucks sway control (if equipped)
Sometimes when the elec. brakes on a trailer has been sitting for a while it takes a couple brake sessions to clean off the rust. And rust forming goes fast when damp exist. Before the RV season begins for me I always test my brakes by pulling the pin
and axles jacked up and turn the wheels, at least I know there's no wire failure.
For the rest you can tap in your brake wire in the cab and put a volt meter on it and see what happening. You have to feel comfortable on the road with your brakes.

My 2014 Dodge truck I have the controller on light around 6 and works good on a 55OO/6000 lbs. load.
When running a 4 ton utility trailer I put the controller on Heavy Trailer and around 7.

The problem is the controllers are all run by the onboard computer.

[Rock]

klassic
From what I have read I would go after market. It is easy to do and people hook up after marker controllers all the time. Ya u have to run some wires but you can probable tap into what u have. Most vehicles my trucks age they were an add on when you got a trailer with electric brakes. Some were plug an play and others u had to do the wiring. Since ur trailer is under warranty I would force the dealer to pull it with one of his vehicles since there is no one u know with a truck by u to test it. My Dodge was factory tow package but did not work plug an play with my controller. Had to run a wire to the trailer brake pin on a connector under the dash. I am sure other Ford truck owners have taped into the factory wiring and added an after market controller call e trailer and talk to there tec. Tell him u want to add aftermarket and how would u add it your truck. They will research they r great to deal with
Rock

[klassic]

Thanks Aljo.. I hooked up my volt meter to the 7 way at the back to see what the voltage is at the end of the wires. I used an old 7way connector and brought wires into the cab through the back window and hooked up my meter and drove around
The voltage is good. But that is without the trailer hooked up.
I want to see what the voltage does with the trailer hooked up and driving around. The truck has two 7 way connectors.
I want to see if the voltage changes when the magnets are hooked up, because they are an inductive load.
Maybe that's the problem with the controller, it's not working correctly when it sees an inductive load applied.

When the dealers hitch installer and I were messing around he hooked up his Tekonsha brake simulator meter Tekonsha - Testers

It hummed and vibrated like crazy... And he said what the heck is going on. He never seen that before.

I still need to get to the bottom of this.

My meter says it's putting out 13.6 volts when the lever is squeezed without the trailer. I'm sure everyone here would agree that's enough to make the trailers wheels lock up.

I have had 2 5vers on this truck over 5 years and it's only enough to slow them down.

[klassic]

Rock.. I'm probably going after market after I am out of ideas to find out what's wrong.
Or I'll buy a new truck. Hahaha. I've never had one for longer then 3 years

[klassic]

Oh ya.. Also when I was testing with the dealer and his brake simulator, we never drove the truck with it attached. Only parked. And now I forget if we even started it.
During the first 2-3 seconds of squeezing the slider the voltage would go to 11.5 on his tester. And hum faintly..then it would drop off to 6v and hum really loud.
I think it's suppose to drop off so when your going slow in stop and go traffic so the brakes aren't jerking the truck around. But who knows...I'm not allowed to talk to Ford on how this controller works.

[TCNashville]

Originally Posted by klassic

Rock.. I'm probably going after market after I am out of ideas to find out what's wrong.
Or I'll buy a new truck. Hahaha. I've never had one for longer then 3 years

Klassic, just another thought. In your info screen you have a choice between hydraulic/electric braking. Make sure the box that says electric is checked. I'm sure you've done this and by no means is this an insult to your intelligence. Just trying to cover all the bases. My apologies to Rock as well.

[klassic]

I've tried that too more than once. And I've tried the sway control on and off too.
I've tried almost everything, except the most simplest, most effective way to determine what the problem is.
Someone with a 2012 hook up to my trailer and see if it has brakes.
Soooo easy, yet so hard.

[Rock]

klassic
You sound as frustrated as I am now after my brake issue and having my new baby ran into at the repair lot. U need to get the dealer to tow ur FW than that will 100% rule that out. Now u will know it is the truck. Call e trailer and talk to them and also find a good Ford site and post ur problem. That will let u know if others have had issues and check for any Ford service bulletins. If u find nothing than go after market or buy a new truck like u said it is ancient three years old (lol). Mine is ten and will be around till I am to old to tow anymore. Dodge could not figure out my problem but a guy on the dodge Cummings web site had the same issue. Mexican built truck with a brake wire in the factory tow package not connected to a connector. Mine was out of warranty but Dodge fixed for free and I gave the tech a few bucks.
Rock

[Bookemdanno]

Klassic - Can I make a suggestion? Can you take a new truck for an extended test drive from one of the big 3? They will let you do that down here in the States sometimes for several hours...sometimes for a full day or two. If you can, hook up and see if you can tell a difference?? I would even go so far as to try it with 2 different manufacturers. Would definitely tell you if it's the truck or the trailer. Only down side is that you may want to purchase a new truck!

[klassic]

I got the truck November of 2011.. So it is actually 4 1/2 years old. Haha.

I did do this with the dealer (we we are talking about the Jayco dealer?)
They have an older 450 dually. He could drive all over with his P2 manual slider on.
That's why they agreed to taking the wheels off for the second time.
But after it was found out their contoller isn't working very good, and they don't care because that truck could stop a train.

So once again any theory of which is ACTUALLY at fault, truck or trailer, still remains a mystery.
I'm 90% sure it's the truck.
I can't possibly have two 5vers in a row with bad brakes when the previous one worked prefect behind my previous truck. Then all of a sudden it doesn't.
Then I get a new one with the exact same issue??
There's only one common denominator

I really need the same truck as mine to pull it and let Ford see it happen
The Ford dealer will have NOTHING to do with helping out with that idea.

I know people but they don't have a hitch, and to be 100% accurate it needs to be a 2012

[klassic]

Originally Posted by Bookemdanno

Klassic - Can I make a suggestion? Can you take a new truck for an extended test drive from one of the big 3? They will let you do that down here in the States sometimes for several hours...sometimes for a full day or two. If you can, hook up and see if you can tell a difference?? I would even go so far as to try it with 2 different manufacturers. Would definitely tell you if it's the truck or the trailer. Only down side is that you may want to purchase a new truck!

That's not a bad idea.
Except the truck would have to have the pucks in the bed and I would have to not scratch the heck out of them

This is my 5th truck off the same salesmen. I've never actually talked to him about it. Maybe he will be cool with me just doing it.

[Redbird7]

Klassic, I have been following this thread and missed something on the way. Are you using elect/hyd brakes with a built in factory controller?

[klassic]

No... Normal electric brakes with a built in factory Ford controller.
My 3rd Ford controller...the first controller that I have to drive at a setting of 10 to get marginally poor braking.

[Redbird7]

Thats a tough one. Ford controllers work off of inertia and braking power on the pedal. Thats why they do not work as good as an aftermarket inertia controller. Its hard to trouble shoot them at a stand still. What size brakes do you have on your trailer? I am thinking a 12x2. Have you checked your ground on your truck? I have a dodge in the shop that stopped working after 4 months (2015). We checked the ohms on the ground post on truck plugs. Needs to be below .5. We were at 1.4. Added ground to plug and fixed it. Have you contacted Tekonsha? They made the controller and maybe help some. Still think.....

[klassic]

I'm thinking I'll be checking the ground tomorrow now.
My 2006 and 2009 controllers worked fine. I always towed set at 7. If I slid the manual slider the wheels would lock. I have a hard time locking the wheels with the 2012 to make the hitch slider slide

I didn't know Tekonsha made the controller... You've opened a new door for me.

[Redbird7]

Are you using the factory bumper plug or a bed plug aftermarket added? Has Ford replaced the brake controller already? Im not sure an aftermartket will fix this. And you would be happier!

[klassic]

Both 7way plugs are stock and it doesn't matter which one I'm plugged into, braking is the same.
Ford won't even talk to me about it. They checked it once under warranty and said it works fine.
And said I have bad trailer brakes. They don't even know what they were checking for.
I'm also thinking about buying a new one for 100$ on eBay, but I need to be more sure

I do remember reading, years ago, about Ford having bad trailer plug grounds right out of the factory, but I forget what condition that caused.