Major brake problem - Page 5

SmokerBill · 03-15-2016, 04:28 AM

Klassic, this might seem like a desperate measure, but have you tried pulling the trailer's emergency brake pin, then pulling with your truck to see if the brakes are locked up? That way at least, you'd know the brake magnets are getting full power.

Rock · 03-15-2016, 04:57 AM

klassic
I just read ur post on the Ford site. Did Chrystal ever push the issue up the food chain ? With two different trailers and the trailer guy giving up all points to truck. There has to be some place by u a custom shop or there buddy who u can give a few bucks to to tow ur FW. Who cares what brand truck since u just want to eliminate the trailer. Call e trailer and ask them how to properly check your truck output volts and amps when driving and u slam on brakes. You might need a buddy to read meter that u wire into your plug. I would also run a separate ground. We know to look for 12 v but u also need the Amps. I would also ask e trailer about a prodigy with plug an play harness for ur truck. For $200 u can bypass ur factory controller but first do a full electrical check
Rock

Rock · 03-15-2016, 05:04 AM

I down loaded the break in procedure for my new Lippert brakes. It says to set the gain than drive 40 and use just the brake lever to stop with. Drive a mile to cool and do this about ten times. Now the hard part where to find a road in Tampa bay to do that!!!!

gowesley · 03-15-2016, 07:16 AM

Klassic

If I was close to I would gladley try to heip you, but I am in n. wi.

Rock · 03-15-2016, 09:06 AM

klassic
Down load the Lippert Manuel it has a troubleshooting guide and list how to check Amps an volts. Four brake system shows full on 12 v. 12 amp. Check the volts and Amps at ur truck plug and work from there. If u get low readings try a separated ground. If all good work back brake closest in wiring to the furthest away. They r saying to check using pin probes that go into the wires so that way you r applying brakes and you can see volts an amps
Rock

klassic · 03-15-2016, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokerBill

Klassic, this might seem like a desperate measure, but have you tried pulling the trailer's emergency brake pin, then pulling with your truck to see if the brakes are locked up? That way at least, you'd know the brake magnets are getting full power.

I have, but not while driving.
I pulled it in the dealers parking lot and could still move the wheels, but the truck is a diesel. Nothing would have moved if it was a gasser.
The dealers installer wasn't overly surprised that my truck could still pull the trailer. It held firmer then the manual slider on full, but still was able to move. Definitely didn't "lock"

So to me that test was inconclusive.

klassic · 03-15-2016, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock

klassic
I just read ur post on the Ford site. Did Chrystal ever push the issue up the food chain ? With two different trailers and the trailer guy giving up all points to truck. There has to be some place by u a custom shop or there buddy who u can give a few bucks to to tow ur FW. Who cares what brand truck since u just want to eliminate the trailer. Call e trailer and ask them how to properly check your truck output volts and amps when driving and u slam on brakes. You might need a buddy to read meter that u wire into your plug. I would also run a separate ground. We know to look for 12 v but u also need the Amps. I would also ask e trailer about a prodigy with plug an play harness for ur truck. For $200 u can bypass ur factory controller but first do a full electrical check
Rock

It never got moved up the chain because those cust service reps moniter the US. They don't do anything when your in Canada. That's where it ended.
I tried Canadian cust service, all they would do is call my dealer. Nothing happened.
The dealer has conveniently lost anything to do with me complaing about an improperly working controller while the truck was still in warranty.
I never pursued it then because they tested it and said it was the trailer at fault. Thus my trailer shop did $1000 of work and testing to the old SOB. There was no conclusion. I just lived with it.
Now with the new NorthPoint I am reliving it, but the truck isn't in warranty anymore. The Ford dealer says this is how the controller works. They won't touch it without me paying. He won't call me back. There is no point talking to him anymore. He says this is how it works case closed. It is the trailer at fault.

I've checked the voltages, it seams to check out. 13.5v driving without the trailer...12.5v driving with the trailer.
I don't have a meter good enough to measure over 10amps.
But that's all just numbers.. There are voltage drops, connection points ground resistance. More factors.
Real world is my truck and my trailer equals poor braking.
Gowesley's same truck and same trailer equals good braking.
I need someone's proven truck that I know works to pull my trailer.
Real world money that has gone into this is about $2000. Still I don't have an answer. Equals frustrating.

klassic · 03-15-2016, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock

klassic
Down load the Lippert Manuel it has a troubleshooting guide and list how to check Amps an volts. Four brake system shows full on 12 v. 12 amp. Check the volts and Amps at ur truck plug and work from there. If u get low readings try a separated ground. If all good work back brake closest in wiring to the furthest away. They r saying to check using pin probes that go into the wires so that way you r applying brakes and you can see volts an amps
Rock

Thanks Rock, I tried looking for lipperts bake manual but could t find it I had it for the SOB before (it all checked out by the way).

Here is what my truck is putting out on a Tekonsha brake simulator meter.
I don't know what it uses for a total resistance though.

klassic · 03-15-2016, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gowesley

Klassic

If I was close to I would gladley try to heip you, but I am in n. wi.

Thanks...You give me reason to keep looking for the problem. Same truck, same trailer, braking power how it should be, set at 7 feeling a little pull. NOT set at 10 and feeling a PUSH.
I've PM'd lots of people on the other site, but no one with the actual same truck and same rig.

What happens if you ride with your controller at 10?

Rock · 03-15-2016, 10:50 AM

klassic
Where was that controller hooked up to. The truck 7 pin on bumper or at the control unit?

klassic · 03-15-2016, 10:55 AM

The 7 pin connector.

klassic · 03-15-2016, 11:02 AM

Rock, do me a favour. When you pick up your trailer, see if they have one of those testers and ask them to check your trucks output.

Rock · 03-15-2016, 12:16 PM

klassic
Will do.

RoscoW · 03-16-2016, 12:45 PM

I know this may sound like captain obvious just showed up, are the brakes on the correct side of the axle? I believe there is a primary shoe and the magnet arm should wrap around the front of the axle. I've had it happen before, people get so into looking for the deep complicated cause and can simply be looking past a simpler issue. I know it's a long shot but you got new axles on the old trailer (could have been installed backwards). I would hope a service tech would notice but I've seen simpler things go completely unseen……

Ross..

klassic · 03-16-2016, 01:30 PM

A good thought Ross. I find no opinion obvious, because I'm still stumped.
But after I had my SOB worked on (they tried just adjusting the brakes first) and they would have noticed the adjuster spinning the wrong way.
Then they changed the brakes with Dexter backing plates. No way they would have put them on wrong too.
The Jayco dealer took the NorthPoint wheels off twice. Adjusted, examined, and the 2nd time to sand and clean. They would have had to see an improper installation.

Unless I'm being duped and they have never taken the wheels off.
This can be considered 3 sets of brand new brakes I've had, 2 on the SOB, one on the NorthPoint. They all have/had exactly the same braking force. Controller at max, slider squeezed, they gently slow the truck down.

I had resigned to the fact maybe I was asking too much from the brakes on a heavy trailer (not really that heavy) and mine are working appropriately with my truck. Until Gowesley posted.

RoscoW · 03-16-2016, 01:59 PM

I knew it would be a long shot…… Will the local dealer allow you to hook to any other rig in the yard to eliminate the trailer from the problem list? I would think they would be all over that idea so they can show it isn't a trailer issue, even just driving in the yard would settle that.
I would also find a new truck dealer if that's how you get treated for buying a top shelf item every three or four years, the salesman would know I wasn't satisfied with the service and I was going elsewhere for the next truck.

Ross..

Ross..

klassic · 03-16-2016, 02:49 PM

Thanks Ross. I haven't talked to my Ford salesman yet, because for the last five years I thought it was my CedarCreek with the problem. That was one of the major reasons for me getting a new rig.
I got the NorthPoint in August and slowly I have been seeking the problem.
I'm more into it now, because I made a innocent comment on this thread and ended up hijacking it.

No, the dealer won't let me take any trailers, because they are convinced it is the truck. I never pushed it, in August, because the old CedarCreek did the same thing.
We did pull mine with their F450 with a P2 and it was the same poor braking., but later we found out the P2 is only putting out 9v. Something was wrong. So it was another inconclusive test (among many).
When I talked to the service manager there he said "Ford controller? Get rid of it"
No one cares (Ford or Jayco) that I had 2 other Ford controllers that worked perfectly. It's very frustrating.

I did ask the service manager at Ford and he said no chance of me hooking up to a new truck, nor does he care because he says it's the trailer's problem.
The other problem here is the service manager said this is how the 2012 brake controller works. Even if I tested it with a 2016 truck off the lot and it works fine, they will say this is how the 2012 brake controller works. Plus I have already confirmed that my controller puts out 12.5-13.5v on full.
Another inconclusive test.

I think I'm going to go back to Jayco dealer and pay them to prove to me that my NorthPoint brakes work.

Subaru297 · 03-16-2016, 03:41 PM

Call your salesman and ask him to let you know if any used trucks come in that you could test with? He will be more inclined to help you out than the service department I would think.

namusmc65 · 03-17-2016, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock

klassic
After what u just said hook a battery directly to the trailer plug and see if u can move FW. If all is good get an aftermarket controller and disconnect factory one .
Rock

Why not just pull the emergency pin loose and then try to move the trailer? If that works, you know it must be the controller. Mine got caught and pulled loose turning out of the yard. Blocked the road and could not go anywhere until I jumped out and plugged it back in.
I also had an idiot pull right out in front of me and had to lock them up on my. 2015 Ram 2500. I know they work for sure now!

klassic · 03-17-2016, 10:00 AM

We pulled the disconnect at the dealer, although very stiff...my diesel could still move it.
The tech seemed to think that was acceptable.
But with the the controller on max it is easier to pull.
Unless someone can confirm (and the tech obviously didn't) that pulling the pin will LOCK the brakes and the only way for a truck to move it is to drag the wheels along the pavement. It definitely didn't do that.

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