New member thinking of purchasing Designer

[garyb1st]

Hello everyone, my wife and I are seriously considering making an offer on a 2006 Jayco Designer, model 31RKS. We currently have a Keystone Outback and have outgrown the relatively small size. I don't know much about the Designer but they get very good reviews. Before making an offer on the trailer I'd like to understand a few things better.

We have an F250 Diesel LG 4x4 which is quite heavy and has a limited payload capacity. While I'm convinced the trucks actual payload is much greater and I'm willing to exceed the rating, I don't want to purchase a trailer which my truck can not pull safely. So, hitch weight is important. The Jayco website says the dry hitch on the 31RKS is 2,300. The trailer is equipped with a Onan 5500 genny, an inverter, a second AC in the bedroom and probably a few more extras. The additional weight of these options is up front so a disproportionate amount will likely go on the pin.

My first question is how much should the pin weight on this trailer be with about 2,000lbs of water and gear in addition to the genny and other add ons?

My second question has to do with the slides. The living room slide moves very slow and the motor seems to be working overtime to move it out and back in. Is this normal for a large slide? I haven't checked the bedroom slide on this unit so don't know if that also operates slowly. My small trailer slide moves much faster. But it's only 14" deep by 8 feet long so quite light by comparison.

Finally, are there any known issues that I should be aware of? Leaks, structural, delamination etc.

Thanks in advance for your responses. If we get lucky and purchase the unit, I'll provide a more formal introduction.

Until then,

Gary

[Justcampin]

My 2010 Designer's small slide moves faster than the larger slide, always has,
I am about to put my 2010 35rlts up for sale

[Denise]

Welcome to the Jayco Owners Forum garyb1st! Hope your research and input from members here helps you make an informed purchase! Let us know what you wind up doing.

[Monte and Kids]

I can't tell you anything about the trailer but I know about F250's and I LOVE them. I have a 2006 F250 and the GCWR which is the most important to me is 23,000. The F350 has the exact same GCWR which means that the F250 can pull a bigger trailer than the F350 because the F350 weighs more. Now this GCWR is the same for 2003-2006 from what I understand. Not he truck GVWR is 10,000. I put a 100 gallon tank in the bed of my truck, filled it up, then went to the truck stop and weighed it. So I can be under all weight ratings pulling the biggest Jayco Bunk House trailer, the 365BHS. Check the weight on that one. If you have an older 7.3 Ford I think the weights are smaller, let me know.

[garyb1st]

First of all, thanks to everyone for responding. I was concerned because I didn't get any email indications letting me know the three of you had responded. I guess I need to look into my settings.

Justcampin, that makes sense and probably the reason the large slide on the unit I'm considering moves slowly. Good luck on the sale of your unit.

Healthi, I definitely will. So far most all of my research suggests Jayco builds an excellent trailer.

Monte, thanks for the info on your tow vehicle. Sounds like my truck is a year older version than yours. It's the 2005 F250 XLT 4x4 CC LB. It weighs about 8,000 with a load of fuel my wife and self. So based on the advertised payload rating, I can only have about 2,000 lbs max on the pin. But, I tend to agree with you, This is a lighter version of the F350. I've done a ton of research and it appears the only difference are in the springs and larger tires. I learned yesterday that the axle is the same and the lower axle rating is based on the weight limit of the springs. I've concluded the payload limit has to do with vehicle registration and not capability of the truck. Do you have air bags or extra springs on your unit? Also, I like the idea of the 100 gallon fuel tank. I've thought about that.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by garyb1st

snip.........My first question is how much should the pin weight on this trailer be with about 2,000lbs of water and gear in addition to the genny and other add ons?.....snip

Gary,

One could only guess, and a purchase made under the wrong assumptions could be costly. Do you know if the present owner has ever CAT scale weighed the FW? If not, you may want to have it weighed before making the purchase....work with real weights.

The recommended "loaded" pin weight should be 15% to 25% of your "loaded" FW weight. On the longer and heavier FW's, I tend to recommend a 20% minimum.

The '06' 31RKS FW had a published UVW of 10,185lbs, GVWR of 14,000lbs, and dry hitch of 2,300lbs. The UVW doesn't reflect the actual "ship weight" from the factory, assume another 350lbs.

So for grins : (10,185lbs) + (350lbs) + (2,000lbs water/gear) + (300lbs genny) = 12,835lbs @ 20% = 2,567lbs pin weight. This is based on the weight being properly distributed.

Don't forget to account for the weight of the hitch against your TV's RGAWR as well.

Just food for thought.

Bob

[Monte and Kids]

No extras on my truck and with my 100 gallon tank full of fuel, my truck weighs 8000lbs. Now the GVWR is 10K on our trucks and the GCWR is 23,000. I was told by ford that the GVWR should not be considered when pulling a trailer, only the GCWR and the RAWR. Ford told me that trailers (especially 5th Wheels) have unloaded weight. I had no idea what that meant and they explained it to me like this. As you are driving down the road the front of the 5th wheel is constantly weighing different weights because of the road. So I asked them if my RAWR and GCWR were in limits would I be in limits according to Ford and they told me yes. I was really worried about the GVWR when I was looking at the Jayco 365BHS, but they told me that as long as I didn't max out the trailer with weight, I would be fine. They also told me (under the table) that all those values are very conservative. So take that as you want. If you can hook up to the trailer and take it to the truck stop and have them weight each axel, you will know right quick what you are dealing with.
The main reason I have the 100gallon fuel tank is because I put diesel in my main tank and I make my own fuel that I put in the big tank. I have over 100,000 miles with my own fuel and I have 225,000 on the truck and the engine is great!!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Monte and Kids

snip.......I was told by ford that the GVWR should not be considered when pulling a trailer, only the GCWR and the RAWR.

Monte and Kids,

Interesting..., but Ford's own Towing Guides contradict that statement. One will find the following statement in many Ford publications/documents in respect to tow ratings:

"Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10-15% (15-25% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label."

Reference source: http://www.ford.com/towingguides/

Originally Posted by Monte and Kids

snip.......I was really worried about the GVWR when I was looking at the Jayco 365BHS, but they told me that as long as I didn't max out the trailer with weight, I would be fine.

I'm a little confused why they seem to be concerned about the 365BHS GVWR more than their own product GVWR......, I guess if I was assuming that the Ford TV was at it's "curb weight" (Ford tow rating is based on) might account for the statement.

I figure that RV, Automotive, Hitch, etc., manufactures take the time to generate weight limits I might as well use them....but that's me.

Bob

[garyb1st]

Monte, I tend to agree with what the Ford salesman says about axle and combined being more important. The changing pin weight as we drive down the road is something I hadn't thought about. It actually makes sense so maybe there's a margin built in just for that. Have you posted anything about your home made fuel? I'd like to hear more about that. Didn't know the 6.0 could use it.

Bob, I'm looking at the pin weight the same way you are. I figure it's going to be at least 2,700 lbs. In spite of the GVW limits of the F250, I think I'm OK with that much pin. If you're interested, I can give you more info on how I arrived at the higher number.

Gary

[cutrell01]

Originally Posted by garyb1st

Hello everyone, my wife and I are seriously considering making an offer on a 2006 Jayco Designer, model 31RKS. We currently have a Keystone Outback and have outgrown the relatively small size. I don't know much about the Designer but they get very good reviews. Before making an offer on the trailer I'd like to understand a few things better.

We have an F250 Diesel LG 4x4 which is quite heavy and has a limited payload capacity. While I'm convinced the trucks actual payload is much greater and I'm willing to exceed the rating, I don't want to purchase a trailer which my truck can not pull safely. So, hitch weight is important. The Jayco website says the dry hitch on the 31RKS is 2,300. The trailer is equipped with a Onan 5500 genny, an inverter, a second AC in the bedroom and probably a few more extras. The additional weight of these options is up front so a disproportionate amount will likely go on the pin.

My first question is how much should the pin weight on this trailer be with about 2,000lbs of water and gear in addition to the genny and other add ons?

My second question has to do with the slides. The living room slide moves very slow and the motor seems to be working overtime to move it out and back in. Is this normal for a large slide? I haven't checked the bedroom slide on this unit so don't know if that also operates slowly. My small trailer slide moves much faster. But it's only 14" deep by 8 feet long so quite light by comparison.

Finally, are there any known issues that I should be aware of? Leaks, structural, delamination etc.

Thanks in advance for your responses. If we get lucky and purchase the unit, I'll provide a more formal introduction.

Until then,

Gary

The 2300 pin weight is probably based on basic RV without the generator, etc. My F250 Super Duty diesel short bed's pin weight max is around 2900 but I would not go near that amount. I have installed Firestone air bags on back and inflate to 15-18 psi and that makes quite a difference in back end drop down. Adding a 100lbs diesel tank in bed (about 800lbs) I think would max out your pin weight capacity. Do you have a short bed or long bed truck?

[garyb1st]

Originally Posted by cutrell01

The 2300 pin weight is probably based on basic RV without the generator, etc. My F250 Super Duty diesel short bed's pin weight max is around 2900 but I would not go near that amount. I have installed Firestone air bags on back and inflate to 15-18 psi and that makes quite a difference in back end drop down. Adding a 100lbs diesel tank in bed (about 800lbs) I think would max out your pin weight capacity. Do you have a short bed or long bed truck?

My truck is a LB. The advertised payload is 2,600 lbs which is based on the 10,000 GVWR. My truck weighs 7,600 lbs with a half tank of fuel and myself at the wheel. I'm guessing with a full load of fuel, a 5th wheel hitch in the bed and my wife the truck will weight close to 8,000 lbs. Based on the 10,000 GVWR, I've got maybe 2,000 lbs before I'm over weight. That said, I know I'm going to be over weight and I'm pretty sure, the truck can handle the weight.

I see you pull a 35 foot Travel Supreme which is a heavy trailer. What is the pin weight on your trailer? Is that why you have the air bags? If you don't mind, how much did you pay for them? I've been thinking I will either need air bags or helper springs.

Gary

[cutrell01]

Originally Posted by garyb1st

My truck is a LB. The advertised payload is 2,600 lbs which is based on the 10,000 GVWR. My truck weighs 7,600 lbs with a half tank of fuel and myself at the wheel. I'm guessing with a full load of fuel, a 5th wheel hitch in the bed and my wife the truck will weight close to 8,000 lbs. Based on the 10,000 GVWR, I've got maybe 2,000 lbs before I'm over weight. That said, I know I'm going to be over weight and I'm pretty sure, the truck can handle the weight.

I see you pull a 35 foot Travel Supreme which is a heavy trailer. What is the pin weight on your trailer? Is that why you have the air bags? If you don't mind, how much did you pay for them? I've been thinking I will either need air bags or helper springs.

Gary

Don't know exactly what my pin weight is but trailer was making truck squat down more than I wanted so I installed Firestone air bags (the kind that fit inside the leaf springs). All bolt on, no drilling,etc. Installed air line and air valves under fender well. You can air up with regular old hand pump (without RV hooked up of course). Don't remember how much they cost but not too expensive. You can Goggle "firestone air bags" and check for the model that fits your truck. Cuts down on bouncing also when RV is hooked up. I also had RV dealer install a 5th Airbourne extended pin because I have a short bed. It has an air bag and a shock inside and that also cuts down on the chucking and bouncing. When not hooked up to RV, you just keep 5psi in bags. Helper springs may give a harsher ride for truck when you don't have RV on?

[Monte and Kids]

Just to say a little bit about homemade fuel. I have over 100,000 miles on my fuel. The 6.0L loves the fuel, but you need a fuel pressure gauge in the cab of the truck and as soon as the fuel pressure comes off of Max pressure, change the fuel filter. If you don't change it and try to run another 500 miles or so, you will stick an injector. Sometimes they start working fine again, but sometimes they are stuck either open (lots of white smoke) or closed (just a miss in the engine) and you will have to replace it or them. I have replaced all 8 because I was stupid!! Now I take waist see through veg oil, let it settle for about 3 months min, 1 year is great (looks like brand new very light colored veg oil). Then cut it with gas using a 85 oil 15 gas mixture. I add a few amsoil additives to get the octane out and cetane up. My cost is about $.90 per gallon, but right now I am changing fuel filters at about 2000 miles. That makes the price of fuel $1.20 per gallon and I just change them on the side of the road. From the time to change clothes in the trailer, change the filter, change clothes back in the trailer and wash up, 15 minutes. I have changed over 100 filters on the side of the road, it is no big deal. I get paid per mile from my company, so I am making some really good money. The main thing about the 6.0L engine is that it is really picky about all the fluids in it and the most important thing, the injectors. It is a must to keep max fuel pressure in the rail all the time!!! Injectors will go easy 100,000+ if this is done, but if it is not done I have had them go out at 10,000 miles. Again it was totally my fault and I learned the hard way. The 7.3 is not as picky and loves the fuel too, the fuel filter only needs to be changed the same interval as for diesel. I hope this helps! If you don't let your veg oil settle you are asking for it though. I just used some oil that has been settling for 2 years and I swear I could have a fish fry in it.

[MHbell]

By all means take the truck and trailer to a Cat scale. Weigh the Truck without the fiver with everything that you normally carry on it and full fuel. Then weigh the truck and trailer together. Be sure to use a Cat scale that will weigh each axle. I have air bags on my 07 F250 SD and tow a 07 Jayco Designer 31RLTS with Generator and every option. GVCWR is a little over 19,200 LBS loaded. Truck is 7,460 with fuel and 2 people.
Mel

[garyb1st]

Talked to the salesman today and told them the max I was willing to pay. The salesman called the manager then called me back and said they are as low as they can go. I told the salesman our offer is firm and to call me if they changed their mind. In the meantime, we will continue to look. Bottom line, I'm glad we did the exercise. Learned a lot about Jayco and now they're at the top of the short list.

Thanks all for your responses.

Monte. I like the price of your fuel. Don't know about being knee deep in the stuff, but if I had the room to do it, I might experiment. Thanks for the info.

Mel, Do you know what the pin weight is on your trailer. I know the 31 RKS we looked at is a bit heavier but it sounds like yours with all the options will be a pretty good bench mark.

[MHbell]

Originally Posted by garyb1st

Mel, Do you know what the pin weight is on your trailer. I know the 31 RKS we looked at is a bit heavier but it sounds like yours with all the options will be a pretty good bench mark.

Here are the specs
07 Designer 31RLTS 35 ft long Max Gross weight 14,500 Lbs, Cargo max 3,850 Lbs, Pin Weight Dry 2,680 Lbs.
F250
No trailer, Tool Box, Fuel and 2 people
Gross 7,460 Lbs
Front Axle 4,080 Lbs
Rear Axle 3,380 Lbs

With Trailer
Front Axle 4,380 Lbs
rear Axle 6,100 Lbs minus 3,380 Lbs = 2,720 Lbs Loaded pin Weight.

Both Trailer Axles 9,500 Lbs

Trailer Loaded 12,520 Lbs

Truck and Trailer Loaded GVCW 19,980 Loaded

Allowed GVCWR 23,500 Lbs for truck.
Hope this helps you.
Mel

[garyb1st]

Originally Posted by MHbell

Here are the specs
07 Designer 31RLTS 35 ft long Max Gross weight 14,500 Lbs, Cargo max 3,850 Lbs, Pin Weight Dry 2,680 Lbs.
F250
No trailer, Tool Box, Fuel and 2 people
Gross 7,460 Lbs
Front Axle 4,080 Lbs
Rear Axle 3,380 Lbs

With Trailer
Front Axle 4,380 Lbs
rear Axle 6,100 Lbs minus 3,380 Lbs = 2,720 Lbs Loaded pin Weight.

Both Trailer Axles 9,500 Lbs

Trailer Loaded 12,520 Lbs

Truck and Trailer Loaded GVCW 19,980 Loaded

Allowed GVCWR 23,500 Lbs for truck.
Hope this helps you.
Mel

Thanks for the info. That is very helpful. It looks like my truck is heavier than yours because of my long bed and 4x4. What's interesting is the rear axle. Mine weighs less than yours. Probably because of your tool box. The pin weight on your trailer is also more than the 2006 Designer I'm looking at. So I'm thinking I should be able to handle the weight OK. Hopefully I'll hear back from the dealer and be able to give the google search engine a rest.

Gary

[MHbell]

Originally Posted by garyb1st

Thanks for the info. That is very helpful. It looks like my truck is heavier than yours because of my long bed and 4x4. What's interesting is the rear axle. Mine weighs less than yours. Probably because of your tool box. The pin weight on your trailer is also more than the 2006 Designer I'm looking at. So I'm thinking I should be able to handle the weight OK. Hopefully I'll hear back from the dealer and be able to give the google search engine a rest.

Gary

I have a lot of cloths in the closet in the front bedroom, Also a 2 1/2 inch memory foam mattress on the top of the king size mattress on the bed and other things. It all adds up. The tool box and Hitch in the truck weigh around 400 extra pounds. Truck is 2 wheel drive. There are lots of designers for sale out there so you should not have trouble finding one.
Mel
PS Good Luck.