New to 5th Wheel Towing

[TxLoser]

Originally Posted by suzhou

This is really difficult to pin down for a decision for me. I know I'm being a bit over analytical but - I test drove the 6.2L F250 gas version today. Drives fine but the difference in torque and HP between it and the diesel is noticeable. After talking to the Ford dealer and reading what some of you have posted here I do believe the 250 and 350 have the same structure underneath. An extra spring perhaps and dual tires of course. Do I ignore the door sticker on the 250 diesel and go over load cap by about 500lbs assuming the door sticker is under stated or do I get the gas model and be within specs on the door sticker and give up the torque and HP? That 10,000lb GVWR thing is very puzzling in terms of does it really limit the load cap or is it just a truck rating move by Ford. I don't know for sure. I'm not worried about a wreck and getting sued. That's such a low risk that I'm not factoring that into the decision. As I just told my wife - if the door sticker of the 250 diesel was right at max load for us I wouldn't hesitate. I just hate to start out with a truck that has a 1,900 load max with a trailer with a dry weight pin of 2,000lbs.

We're it me and I had the means to purchase either a gas model or diesel, I certainly wouldn't buy a gas a model for payload. 500lbs over is 5% over. The truck will be fine and no one will die in a crazy white knuckle event. There are many reasons to buy a gas version, but to gain payload is one you will regret down the road.....Or while going up a hill, into the wind, or down a steep grade.

[Magnolia Tom]

The f250 and 350 are structurally the same as stated before. It's done for registration purposes. If you look deeper into why the 250 is derated, the tire inflation is an area most people miss. On the 250, recommended inflation is 65 psi (I believe) while on the 350, it's 80.
So, get an F250 with the camper package (that gives you the overload spring) and inflate tires to 80 when you tow.
If you are unsure, look up some components in a parts catalog...brakes, axles, shocks, engine, tranny. They share all the same parts.


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[Rustysocket]

Originally Posted by suzhou

Want to make sure I am following you. The other side of the trailer dipped enough to hit the side of your bed box and dented the trailer? Does it take a serious dip to cause or is an easy thing to do?

It takes less that you would expect. It's nothing to be afraid of but you need to be aware that it can happen. Combined slopes and turns can be an issue.

Since nobody else mentioned it and the focus has primarily been on a trucks capability, be aware that a fifth wheel can kill you during the hook up process if you fail to positively connect to the hitch, raise the landing gear and get yourself between the trailer and the bed rails. While it very uncommon, I'm willing to bet every RV dealer has a story about someone getting hurt. Pay attention to what your doing and you will be fine. Make sure you understand how your hitch works and test pull it prior to raising the landing gear.

FWIW, I wouldn't even screw around with a 250, it makes no sense. The 350 is pocket change more and drives just fine as a daily driver. just my opinion having been there done that and wrote all the checks. And yes get the diesel.

[Larry Mac]

Suzhou
Here's a chart showing the payload for all the 250's inckuding with the diesel. There is nothing under 3K. The bottom two lines are the Diesel and top three gas. The top Diesel line is probably with the 3.31 gears and bottom diesel line with the 3.55. Not sure where you are getting a max of 1900?



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[suzhou]

Larry Mac - this is where I went round and round on my first load capacity journey. The Ford web site and marketing material all show much higher payload numbers, which is what many folks (including Ford sales people) rely on for what to buy or sell. The issue is that the actual truck you buy they weigh it on the line and then put a DOT sticker on the door frame that, in big letters, states the max payload for that specific truck. If you go down the line at the dealership they all vary by a little or a lot based on the options they have installed. The F250 line varies a lot from truck to truck. Hard to know what to believe. As explained to me - they start with the number on the chart and then start taking off all the weight for options (running boards, bed liners, etc). It's hard to believe that those things add up to what it appears but, that's what they tell you. Then, as I had one Ford rep tell me, they are under rated by quite a bit to give them room for error.

[Larry Mac]

Ok-- yes I forget about the add ons. So in reality these charts are showing a totally stripped down truck.


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[JeremiahM]

I personally would get a 350 if I found the right one, they ride fine empty. But I have a 250 CCLB, and tow the 339flqs, they have 6200lb RAWR on on the the 250 and 350, and yes the 250 has 65psi tire rating, so with the proper tires and inflation, your within capacity based off 2 of the 3 ratings, only over on the GVWR. I have absolutely no safety concerns using my 250 for anything a 350 would be rated to tow and would feel fine going slightly over that as well

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[Larry Mac]

Originally Posted by JeremiahM

I personally would get a 350 if I found the right one, they ride fine empty. But I have a 250 CCLB, and tow the 339flqs, they have 6200lb RAWR on on the the 250 and 350, and yes the 250 has 65psi tire rating, so with the proper tires and inflation, your within capacity based off 2 of the 3 ratings, only over on the GVWR. I have absolutely no safety concerns using my 250 for anything a 350 would be rated to tow and would feel fine going slightly over that as well

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Interesting that a SRW 350 has actually less payload than the 250 looking at the same charts.







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[suzhou]

My conclusion (and I may be wrong) from all the info I've gathered here and from others is that the F250 door sticker numbers are artificially low to keep it in line with the 10,000 GVWR vehicle class designation and that it can carry much more than listed. That said, same dilemma. Does one ignore the sticker and go with what seems common sense logic or follow the rules. I went through this same issue with my previous F150 but it is a bit different there. The weight limits make more sense and when I was over I could tell it.

[cariboocreek]

R. v. Hundal, [1993] 1 S.C.R. 867

R. V. Beatty

These are Canadian Supreme Court rulings on the standard of care exercised by a reasonable person. Your call if operating a motor vehicle while knowingly exceeding the manufacturers specifications, meets the courts definition of the measurement of the standard of care.

Not being a Philadelphia lawyer but there are multiple court rulings north and south of the 49th that will give you a good idea of whether you would meet the "standard of care" benchmark.

Each to their own.

[Larry Mac]

I wouldn't want to deal with that in court. Over the limits won't help you with many juries. Just the legal bills alone would be more than I want to deal with. Like the poster above, to each his own.
I'll just buy a smaller 5th wheel.
That being said, I guess it does you no good to add additional springs to help with payload, because ultimately these weight limits are set for braking as well.


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[Bookemdanno]

Originally Posted by Larry Mac

I wouldn't want to deal with that in court. Over the limits won't help you with many juries. Just the legal bills alone would be more than I want to deal with. Like the poster above, to each his own.
I'll just buy a smaller 5th wheel.
That being said, I guess it does you no good to add additional springs to help with payload, because ultimately these weight limits are set for braking as well.


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What legal bills would you be referring to? Last time I checked your insurance will cover you on civil litigations stemming from an accident. Just liable for your deductible. Now finding insurance at a reasonable rate if at all, if something like what ya'll are describing were to happen is another story.

[repacs0103]

Originally Posted by cariboocreek

R. v. Hundal, [1993] 1 S.C.R. 867



R. V. Beatty



These are Canadian Supreme Court rulings on the standard of care exercised by a reasonable person. Your call if operating a motor vehicle while knowingly exceeding the manufacturers specifications, meets the courts definition of the measurement of the standard of care.



Not being a Philadelphia lawyer but there are multiple court rulings north and south of the 49th that will give you a good idea of whether you would meet the "standard of care" benchmark.



Each to their own.

Canadian law is not American law, and both cited cases refer to situations of driver error, not equipment violation. Both also represent commercial drivers. There is no correlation to exceeding manufacturer weight ratings in a private vehicle. In the US, there is no rule of law to enforce exceeding GVWR/payload/GCWR/tow rating/etc in a privately operated vehicle.


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[repacs0103]

Dbl post

[cariboocreek]

Originally Posted by repacs0103

Canadian law is not American law, and both cited cases refer to situations of driver error, not equipment violation. Both also represent commercial drivers. There is no correlation to exceeding manufacturer weight ratings in a private vehicle. In the US, there is no rule of law to enforce exceeding GVWR/payload/GCWR/tow rating/etc in a privately operated vehicle.


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US torte and criminal law stems from British Common Law the same as in Canada. If you assume that the heart of those cases were the simple details then you have missed the primary point of the rulings....Standard of care. What would a reasonable person do in a similar situation. That is the cornerstone of negligence actions both north and south. Reasonableness and a duty of care.

It makes no difference whether there is law regarding overweight operations, but there is law regarding unsafe operation of a motor vehicle, vehicular manslaughter, driving dangerously etc. Again the core of these cases ALWAYS comes down to reasonableness. If you think it's reasonable, what another reasonable person would do in a similar situation, to haul a 40' Designer behind on old Ford Ranger, then go for it.

Our systems of juror's prudence are more alike than different.

Your call, I don't really care one way or the other.

[Larry Mac]

Originally Posted by cariboocreek

US torte and criminal law stems from British Common Law the same as in Canada. If you assume that the heart of those cases were the simple details then you have missed the primary point of the rulings....Standard of care. What would a reasonable person do in a similar situation. That is the cornerstone of negligence actions both north and south. Reasonableness and a duty of care.



It makes no difference whether there is law regarding overweight operations, but there is law regarding unsafe operation of a motor vehicle, vehicular manslaughter, driving dangerously etc. Again the core of these cases ALWAYS comes down to reasonableness. If you think it's reasonable, what another reasonable person would do in a similar situation, to haul a 40' Designer behind on old Ford Ranger, then go for it.



Our systems of juror's prudence are more alike than different.



Your call, I don't really care one way or the other.

I'm afraid to say I have lawyers in the family.
LOL. ( Because of that I have to follow the law to the letter when transporting grandkids with the toddler seating-- which is one reason I'm not buying a Class A which choose to not have child safety latches to properly secure those toddler seats-- but I digress) Your reasonable and prudent argument could also be used as a reasonable and prudent person would not knowingly exceed stated towing limitations of your vehicle.



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[Marine71-76]

When we purchased our 2007 Cameo our 2004 F350 DW was not rated to tow 15,000 so we ordered a 2008 F450 DW. Turns out the trailer was rated at 16,124. Overkill? Probably but no matter what FW DW wants, we are covered.

As far as being overweight, DW's Uncle was traveling from California to Texas years ago. Apparently a semi-driver complained to the Motor Vehicle police & he was pulled over. Yes, they weighed his truck/trailer. According to him, the police officer looked at his door sticker, the trailer sticker and found he was okay. Not sure what the semi-driver was concerned about. It does happen.

[suzhou]

Sorry, didn't mean to kick open a legal debate. Net, for now I'm settled on the F250 platinum gas version since it keeps me within specs per the door sticker. The local dealer found one in LA (we live in Memphis) that they are having moved here for me to see. It won't be here for about another week since it's still in transit from the factory so will continue to kick tires and look at door stickers to confirm, or reconsider. I have time. Appreciate all the inputs here, been a tremendous help.

[Archie]

Originally Posted by suzhou

Sorry, didn't mean to kick open a legal debate. Net, for now I'm settled on the F250 platinum gas version since it keeps me within specs per the door sticker. The local dealer found one in LA (we live in Memphis) that they are having moved here for me to see. It won't be here for about another week since it's still in transit from the factory so will continue to kick tires and look at door stickers to confirm, or reconsider. I have time. Appreciate all the inputs here, been a tremendous help.

Wise decision !

[JeremiahM]

Are you gonna be doing much uphill towing?

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