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Old 11-03-2015, 06:38 PM   #1
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Pin weight and payload

New guy here. My '15 f250 diesel is equipped w/the 10000 lb gvwr option and the payload on the sticker is 2200 lbs. does the pin weight have to be included w/ the payload? Thanx in advance, rick
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:52 PM   #2
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Yes. The same as a TT tongue weight
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Old 11-04-2015, 08:56 PM   #3
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New guy here. My '15 f250 diesel is equipped w/the 10000 lb gvwr option and the payload on the sticker is 2200 lbs. does the pin weight have to be included w/ the payload? Thanx in advance, rick
Be careful with the FW you get - 2200lbs goes fast when your talking pinnacle, our FLSA, loaded for camping, without freshwater (I have the onan 5500W Genset) - is just under 2900lbs.

On my 15 3500 SRW(1 ton), I'm close to my max payload, and within 15% of my max tire load.
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Old 11-05-2015, 07:45 AM   #4
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Ford lists your TV as 16,200 for a fifth wheel towing. Yes a pin has to be included in cargo capacities. Anything over 2k dry might exceed your capacities. Weird thing is that Ford lists a 350 SRW and 250 SRW Diesel identically in 5'th wheel towing capacities for your year. A 16K GVW 5th is going to have a pin weight north of 2500# which exceeds your cargo based on your post. So I would focus on that first then trailer weight second.

Here's a link to the info.

https://secure.ford.com/resources/fo...tyPU_Sep30.pdf
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:36 AM   #5
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Well I look to be screwed here. As I said I'm new to rvs and pickups. The salesman who sold me the 323lkts told me not to worry about pin weights as my diesel 250 could handle about anything. I called the local ford diesel service and was told no problem that I had enough rgawr to handle what I wanted to tow.

Guess I should put in my known weights
Gvwr 10000
Payload 2082
Base curb weight 7462
Fgawr 5949
Rgawr 6100
Gcwr 23500
Maximum loaded trailer weight 15100

Shouldn't the gvwr equal fgawr plus rgawr which would give me over 12000
Need to get on a scale but haven't took receipt of trailer yet as its not ready. Tv has fx4 option and I'm wondering about removing skid plates etc to gain extra gvwr. The Jayco rep says pin weights are calculated at 10% of trailer weight which I find hard to believe. I am truly confused and disappointed w/this whole experience. Especially the Jayco dealer
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:00 AM   #6
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Sales people like to make sales and not always tell the whole truth. Everyone has to inform themselves before making a final sale.
For a TT; TW will be between 10 and 15% and for a 5er between 15 and 20%
The CAT scale will tell you the actual load situation. You are in control of the weight you put in your combo.
I have towed a 36 ft. 5er with a 3/4 ton diesel with ratings very close to max, after I put 5000 lbs. airbags in the rear it drove more comfortable. The '97 Cummings diesel had no problems with the pull.
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:10 AM   #7
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First never trust the salesman. They want to sell you the largest trailer they can and take nothing into account for anyones wel being. That being said I think the trailer you listed is well within the comforatble handling of your TV. Airbags will further enhance your experience giving you the ability to level out the unit should you need to.

Leave the TV as is and get the unit hooked up to see where it sits. Tow once and get a feel for any bottoming out or sway.

10% is light for calculation. I think that unit loaded will come in probably about 21-2200.
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:29 AM   #8
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snip......... Shouldn't the gvwr equal fgawr plus rgawr which would give me over 12000 ......snip
The F & R GAWR's are "independent" limits specified for each axle, but the actual "combined" loaded weights placed on the axles can't exceed the TV's specified GVWR. There are additional vehicle elements (i.e.; frame, drivetrain, brakes, axle, etc.) that come into play that determine a TV's specified GVWR.

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snip.......The Jayco rep says pin weights are calculated at 10% of trailer weight which I find hard to believe.....snip
Interesting statement by the Jayco rep......, heck, even the Jayco published (web site) UVW of the 2016 323LKTS put's the published dry pin weight around 18%. The recommend FW pin weight under "loaded" conditions is 15% to 25% of the FW's gross weight...., many folks find that 20% to be the average, just depends on one's loading habits (IMO 20% seems to be the minimum based on CAT scale results that I've seen).

Bob
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:55 AM   #9
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If you're over, but close, on your RAWR, I wouldn't worry too much about it. More important is your =tires=. The OEM 245 E-range tires on my D'max were about 300 lbs below the RAWR; by switching to 265's, I picked up nearly 900 lbs tire load capacity, so am well over the RAWR of my truck as regards my tires.

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Old 11-05-2015, 06:01 PM   #10
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The trailer has a receiver that the salesman told me I could fit a motorcycle rack to and carry my '72 Norton commando. Total weight of rack and motorcycle is 500 pounds. Jayco says the capacity for this receiver is 300 pounds. Salesman said receiver could be reinforced to accommodate rack/motorcycle. This would void frame warranty. But would it void the rest of the warranties? Would the additional 500 pounds at the rear of the trailer lowering the pin weight enough? W/my 2080 payload I would need to lower pin weight to at most 1500 to be right up to max gvwr fully loaded. Is that too low of a pin weight to be safe. Thinkin outside the box a little. What I truly need to do is hook up and hit the scales. I don't want to be illegal. What do air bags do other than level and smooth the ride? Would they only camouflage my overweight condition ?

Sorry for presenting this convoluted mess but I need some help
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:53 PM   #11
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The pin weight recommendations are there for handling reasons. Yes, loading weight behind the axle will lighten the pin weight. But if you go too far the handling of the combo will be compromised. Try to stay within the 15 to 25% range.
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Old 11-05-2015, 07:31 PM   #12
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The trailer has a receiver that the salesman told me I could fit a motorcycle rack to and carry my '72 Norton commando. Total weight of rack and motorcycle is 500 pounds. Jayco says the capacity for this receiver is 300 pounds. Salesman said receiver could be reinforced to accommodate rack/motorcycle. This would void frame warranty. But would it void the rest of the warranties? Would the additional 500 pounds at the rear of the trailer lowering the pin weight enough? W/my 2080 payload I would need to lower pin weight to at most 1500 to be right up to max gvwr fully loaded. Is that too low of a pin weight to be safe. Thinkin outside the box a little. What I truly need to do is hook up and hit the scales. I don't want to be illegal. What do air bags do other than level and smooth the ride? Would they only camouflage my overweight condition ?

Sorry for presenting this convoluted mess but I need some help
First off this salesman is a winner! IMHO I think you will be fine on the pin with this trailer and your TV stock. It might squat at little more than desired, but not at pickup as this will be lightest your camper will ever be until you sell it. Yes airbags are somewhat of a mask, but they do support weight. Where did you get your weight capacity from. All the literature and specs I find are all north of 3100# payload for the 2015 F250's.

Now for the bad news. No way that receiver is going to hold a motorcycle and no way would I trust it. The forces that take place back there are severe and rough enough just on a regular bike rack that only a few are rated to hold up.

If this salesman truly did mislead you to a unit that you are very uncomfortable with then I would go and talk to his manager and see if you can cancel the order. This is a long shot, but it might be worth the shot.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:04 PM   #13
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The pin weight recommendations are there for handling reasons. Yes, loading weight behind the axle will lighten the pin weight. But if you go too far the handling of the combo will be compromised. Try to stay within the 15 to 25% range.
Our "hitch guy" told us that he took a swivel-wheel platform off a guy's fifth wheel because, when it was loaded, unweighted the pin so much that it was scary to tow. It =is= something to be aware of.

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Old 11-06-2015, 07:43 AM   #14
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First off this salesman is a winner! IMHO I think you will be fine on the pin with this trailer and your TV stock. It might squat at little more than desired, but not at pickup as this will be lightest your camper will ever be until you sell it. Yes airbags are somewhat of a mask, but they do support weight. Where did you get your weight capacity from. All the literature and specs I find are all north of 3100# payload for the 2015 F250's.

Now for the bad news. No way that receiver is going to hold a motorcycle and no way would I trust it. The forces that take place back there are severe and rough enough just on a regular bike rack that only a few are rated to hold up.

If this salesman truly did mislead you to a unit that you are very uncomfortable with then I would go and talk to his manager and see if you can cancel the order. This is a long shot, but it might be worth the shot.

The payload is on the sticker driver side door. 2080
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Old 11-06-2015, 03:49 PM   #15
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The payload is on the sticker driver side door. 2080
Rick,

I would suggest you take your truck to a CAT scale and get your truck weighed. If you can, get the truck weighed with everything in it that would be there when you would be pulling the FW.
This way you know what your exact payload is on both truck and rear axle.

Take into consideration other things beside the 5vr Pin weight that will decrease payload like:
- Added passengers (listed payload only accounts for driver).
- FW Hitch installed in Bed (if it's not there now).
- Additional cargo in the truck cab and bed.

These items could reduce your payload by 300 - 500#.

For me, my FW Hitch and other stuff in the bed of the truck weighs ~300# before taking into account adding weight of passengers in the truck.

I think you'll find that your actual payload is below what's posted on your door sticker.

Hope this was of some help.
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Old 11-06-2015, 05:06 PM   #16
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Thanks guys! I'll put it on the scale when it's ready to be picked up. If my figuring is correct I'll be between 150-200lbs over. I'm resigned to this. Have to see how it handles on the way home, 100 miles
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Old 11-06-2015, 05:29 PM   #17
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Rgrigutis,

Our FBTS has a 2" receiver under the backend, too. All I ever plan on putting back there are two bicycles.

To answer your question about voiding the warranties on everything, my opinion is this. If you do have the hitch reinforced to carry 500 pounds and something else happens, that would be a good excuse for any warranty issues to be denied. I wouldn't do it. But, that is just my 2 cents.
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Old 11-13-2015, 09:30 PM   #18
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Hate to say this, but by the time you have the family in the truck and hitch in the bed, propane tanks full and battery, etc, I think you will be a good bit over the payload and rawr. Double check the tires too. I have a 7000lb axle, and tires are rated at 7280....and I would figure on 20% or so of the loaded camper weight for pin weight. It is very, very easy to have 1000-1500lbs added to a camper with food, pots, pans, chairs, grills, etc...it adds up quick. Definitely hit a CAT scale as soon as you can. Good luck
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