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Old 03-17-2023, 09:35 AM   #1
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question for rv electrician

I recently purchased a 2nd 4000 watt inverter generator and parallel kit to be able to run both my AC units in my 5 th wheel. My question is could i hook up my house panel to a 50amp 110/120 volt breaker by joining the black and red wires together in the 50amp breaker. It would be nice to have 50amp inverted power to the house during hurricanes with all the modern appliances,TV's computers and such that need inverted power. I have the 50amp receptacle to plug into and it would be the black and red wires coming out of it that I would splice together
Thanks
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Old 03-17-2023, 10:59 AM   #2
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When you tie in a generator to a standard household electrical panel you introduce a lot of potential risks that many people are not aware of. This is why most generator tie-ins use a transfer switch, at least those that follow NEC guidelines (similar to most RV's with a generator). While in concept what you would be doing is similar to what a 30a to 50a adapter does for an RV (and maybe already built-in to the parallel kit). One of the differences though is that almost 100% of the RV's do not have or use 240v like a house uses. If any mistake was made in your setup, you would be introducing a direct short into the breaker panel by connecting the two legs together.

Short answer is that I wouldn't suggest much of anything without understanding your setup further and without having a better understanding of your transfer switch setup (or interlock setup). Also keep in mind that you would still not have 240v so only your 120v items would run.

Safety is key here and for sure and to repeat a bit, I would at minimum purchase and install a breaker interlock setup, or a transfer switch, and I would still not tie the two legs together as a permanent setup and instead I would use a 30a to 50a adapter just like you would use to power a 50a RV off of 30a setup (although the interlock kit may already do this).

Just to add and emphasize again, while what you are asking could power all of the 120v circuits in your house but not the 240v circuits and this would be true whether or not you used a parallel kit. But, by adding complexity and connecting the legs together (even when simply using a 30to50 adapter which the parallel kit may be already doing) causes me a lot of concern safety wise if you are not using a true transfer switch or at minimum a breaker interlock to ensure that there cannot be utility provided power ever going to your generator connection, otherwise you will have a direct short.

Bottom line, I recommend hiring a licensed electrician to do your setup for you and depending on the codes where you live, hiring an licensed electrician may be required by law. ~CA
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Old 03-17-2023, 12:58 PM   #3
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Thanks Craigav for your prompt and thorough reply. I agree with every thing you said but maybe I wasn't clear with my question. I use my RV cord plugged into the parallel converter taking two 30 amp inputs and combining it to 50 amp. I then plug it into a rv recep. which has a ground, neutral, black and red wire. When you combine the black and red you still only have 120 volts. My question is would you have 50 amps opposed to 30 amps with those two connected. I realize I must turn my breaker panel off so it doesn't receive any power from the utility co. I am familiar with transfer switches as I have installed them in houses I have built.
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Old 03-17-2023, 02:10 PM   #4
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Just chiming in. Sounds like if you pull more than 30 amps you will trip the breakers on your generators. Even though it is converted to a 50 amp plug. I doubt that matters. Still 30 amp max.
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Old 03-17-2023, 02:19 PM   #5
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I am going to refrain from adding more context to this thread due to the safety concerns. I will instead reach out to camjam directly for a follow up.

Please do not attempt to power your house with a generator of any style or voltage without completely understanding how to safely do so (and in compliance with all codes) as a mistake could be deadly. Electricity is very dangerous!!! I can't say that enough.

FYI, I am not saying camjam or anyone else here doesn't know how to safely work with electricity, but certainly there are those who could make a mistake and the outcome of such a mistake could be very serious.

Thanks, ~CA
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Old 03-17-2023, 04:37 PM   #6
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One thing we might be forgetting here is that a rv 50 amp connection is actually 50 amp on the red and 50 amp on the black but they are not combined to make a 240 circuit like in your house wiring.
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Old 03-18-2023, 09:45 PM   #7
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I have to 2nd what craigav said. Without a transfer switch or interlock you have the potential to back feed the utility line .
If I lived in Florida ( we d id live outside Miami in 1970) , what I would do is add a whole house generater/auto transfer switch to my residence. I have one for our house we are currently building here in Tx
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Old 03-19-2023, 10:55 AM   #8
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Just chiming in. Sounds like if you pull more than 30 amps you will trip the breakers on your generators. Even though it is converted to a 50 amp plug. I doubt that matters. Still 30 amp max.
Not sure about that. When I hook it up to my 5th wheel with both AC's running it pulls quite a bit more than 30 amps. Thanks for your reply.
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Old 03-19-2023, 11:03 AM   #9
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I have to 2nd what craigav said. Without a transfer switch or interlock you have the potential to back feed the utility line .
If I lived in Florida ( we d id live outside Miami in 1970) , what I would do is add a whole house generater/auto transfer switch to my residence. I have one for our house we are currently building here in Tx
If you turn the switch off to the main panel you will never have to worry about back feeding to the utillity co. I have my large 220v generator hooked up thru a transfer switch which will just about run the whole house, but it is not inverter power. With most modern applances, TV's Computers ect. I wanted a way to supply inverted power when needed. Being in an huricane zone it is not unusual to be out of power for a week or more. Thanks
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Old 03-19-2023, 01:08 PM   #10
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If you turn the switch off to the main panel you will never have to worry about back feeding to the utillity co. I have my large 220v generator hooked up thru a transfer switch which will just about run the whole house, but it is not inverter power. With most modern applances, TV's Computers ect. I wanted a way to supply inverted power when needed. Being in an huricane zone it is not unusual to be out of power for a week or more. Thanks
CamJam, Check your personal messages if you haven't already. My concern and why I didn't want to discuss this further in a public forum isn't particular to backfeeding concerns, although that is a real concern, the concern is more in regards to tying the black and red together (L1 and L2) anywhere in your home's electrical system (such as a receptacle connected to your breaker panel) and I don't believe I could completely describe all the scenarios and dangers involved to all of those who may read my reply and may attempt to do something similar.

Not to go into detail but if ever L1 and L2 are ever combined (connected to each other directly) and there becomes a 240v source (Utility or 220~240v generator power) available and powered on to the breaker panel where L1 and L2 are combined (such as at a remote outlet), things are not going to work out well. One could hope that the worst case scenario would be a tripped breaker but certainly that would actually be the best case scenario. I will caveat that comment by stating that combining L1 and L2 should already be in place with the generator parallel kit where the 50a outlet is located that you can plug into, and functions similarly to a RV 30a to 50a adapter and that should be the only place. ~CA
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Old 03-19-2023, 03:07 PM   #11
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The 50 Amp service is actually split in your power panel to provide 120 service to both sides of your power panel. Essentially giving two 120 Amp services. if you have two AC's then they are tied in to each side of the service panel which would allow you to run both when connected to 50Amp service... When you are running 30 amp service then 120 is distributed to both sides of the panel. If you have EZ starts on your AC's you would be able to run both AC's on 30 Amp service but pretty much thats all you can run.. Be careful not to overload. I installed Amp/power meters to keep tabs on current and draw when connected to either 30 or 50 amp service..
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Old 03-19-2023, 04:20 PM   #12
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One thing we might be forgetting here is that a rv 50 amp connection is actually 50 amp on the red and 50 amp on the black but they are not combined to make a 240 circuit like in your house wiring.
All I can say about this is "WRONG". The 50amp plug that you plug into with your RV is a 220 Volt Range outlet. Maybe the next time you are in a campground
you should put a meter on the outlet before you give out false info.
I keep hearing this over and over. As a licensed electrician that has 3 campground s I maintain I think I know .
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Old 03-19-2023, 04:53 PM   #13
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meandmylabs is right. Most rv's except maybe the million-dollar rigs have panels that split the bus bars. 120 @ 50amps to each bar. You won't find a dual pole breaker in these units to run 240v appliances, like your home.
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Old 03-19-2023, 06:21 PM   #14
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All I can say about this is "WRONG". The 50amp plug that you plug into with your RV is a 220 Volt Range outlet. Maybe the next time you are in a campground
you should put a meter on the outlet before you give out false info.
I keep hearing this over and over. As a licensed electrician that has 3 campground s I maintain I think I know .
you are correct, but the 220 is split to two side of the RV power panel providing 120 on each side. You can not run 220 appliance from any outlet int the RV, they are all 120V.
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Old 03-22-2023, 03:27 PM   #15
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Don't connect generator to house without transfer switch.
I think we can all agree this is a very bad practice.

RVs of various types use a 120/240 and 120/208 50A service.
Pretty sure we can all agree on this as well.

RVs don't have / use 240vac appliances, unless cost a million
This is wrong, as "ordinary" coaches a couple decades back had electric dryers and halogen cooktops. Granted, these were usually custom builds. The typical RV coach indeed does use 120vac service x 2 legs. However, all electric units are returning to 240vac, namely for stove / cook top. In addition, there was a trailer, eGO maybe, that had a 240vac air conditioner on it. Pretty sure from factory. 30A shore power (120vac) fed into Renogy Converter Inverter and created 240vac. AC was Furrion, not sure. No LP on this one, but did have a fireplace (120vac).

Parallel 2 generators by tying red/black together
This is not a doggone, is generator, doesn't work like that.
However, I finding interesting that output of your parallel combiner has a 4 wire output. This leads me to think your generators are same as my ancient Hondas (4200w) were, 240vac feeding into combiner.

For what it's worth, a combiner box is little more than allowing the inverter drive on one generator to provide the sync-clock on other generator, thereby making generators able to be in parallel electrically in voltage and waveform.

If you are able to measure 120vac between L1 and neutral, 120vac between L2 and neutral, and 240vac between L1 and L2, then you are good to go to connect to a transfer switch / generator sub-panel. If you have 120vac on L1/L2 to neutral, and 0 or close to zero between L1 and L2, you will need to run your generator through a transformer to get 240vac and connect that to the generator sub-panel.

And throwing this out there...
30/30 to 50A doggone Adapters are truly dangerous. Why? Because they can allow you to overload the neutral without throwing a breaker.

Neutral is rated at 50A (actually 55 depending on length and insulation), but you can get 12kw out of the same neutral because L1 is opposite phase to L2. Meaning the current peaks are opposite polarity. To get 12kw in same phase, your current would be 100A.

What kind (make model) of portable generators is being used by OP?

I will post separately about getting an European coach (caravan) power while they were in North America.
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Old 03-22-2023, 05:15 PM   #16
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You need to talk to an electrician.
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Old 03-22-2023, 07:37 PM   #17
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OMG! electrical advice on these forums....the worst!

Not everyone...but some!
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Old 03-22-2023, 10:12 PM   #18
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Bottom line, I recommend hiring a licensed electrician to do your setup for you and depending on the codes where you live, hiring an licensed electrician may be required by law. ~CA
After reading this thread... I strongly Agree... I refuse to give advise and assume any liability

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigav View Post
I am going to refrain from adding more context to this thread due to the safety concerns.

FYI, I am not saying camjam or anyone else here doesn't know how to safely work with electricity, but certainly there are those who could make a mistake and the outcome of such a mistake could be very serious.
Amen-

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You need to talk to an electrician.
X2

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OMG! electrical advice on these forums....the worst!
Yep..
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Old 03-23-2023, 10:19 AM   #19
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It's been a long time since I've heard an electrical professional refer to a 240 volt circuit as 220. Just saying.
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