SRW diehards with large rigs, interesting read

[Lowmiler]

I see big GVW 5ers being pulled around with SRW TVs all the time, and it always makes me uncomfortable.

Here’s an interesting series of posts I saw on a Ford Truck forum I frequent.

The poster is a guy who was adamant for years that he was completely in spec towing a large 5er with his F250, but only decided to step up to an F350 dually because he liked the idea of rear tire redundancy in the case of a blow out, not because of the higher weight rating.

I predicted he’d fall in love with how incredibly stable the towing experience would be, too:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-a-dually.html

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ng-report.html

[Rmgrose]

We bought a used 365 BHS. I haven't gotten a loaded weight yet, but dry weight on the way home was fine. As long as we don't take unnecessary items we'll be legal, if everything is full I'll be over by a little bit(payload and GVCW). My Ram 3500 SRW with 6.7 cummins 4x4 seems to walk up over hills and exhaust break slows you down them. I worry when I see the halftons pulling fifth wheels. My other concern in many areas in life is more data. It seems engineers are pushing limits and standards are trying to evolve to some imaginary number. I also tend to baby my rig, slow starts and stops and leave plenty of room.

[Grumpy]

I've had both with the last being a SRW DURAMAX. Driving safely is the key to what ever you choose. Neither a SRW or DRW are safe flying down the road at 75-80. Just my two cents after 44 yrs towing all sizes.

[PlayersZ28]

So the first thread you and he claim to be running within spec on an F250 with 3200# on the pin? I'd like to see that truck hooked up and weighed. It's be over on the rear axle.

The 2nd thread with the scale tickets shows 3000# load. That needs a 1T truck, SRW or DRW doesn't matter. If your rear axle weight exceeds that ratings for a SRW then you need a DRW. If you think that 2 extra tires will save you somewhere in the future then buy a DRW. The way I see it I 6 other tires that are just as capable of blowing out and the rear truck tires are the least dangerous ones to go (IMO). The fronts have almost as much load and I don't want one of those to go, that wouldn't end well.

I hauled our fiver for 3 yrs with a DRW and one year so far with a SRW. Driven properly the SRW is the same ride and towing experience.

The SRW/DRW argument will never end. Assuming you're in specs with either then it's a personal choice. If you're uncomfortable seeing one on the road then just pass it or stay well behind.

[Lowmiler]

Originally Posted by PlayersZ28

So the first thread you and he claim to be running within spec on an F250 with 3200# on the pin? I'd like to see that truck hooked up and weighed. It's be over on the rear axle.

The 2nd thread with the scale tickets shows 3000# load. That needs a 1T truck, SRW or DRW doesn't matter. If your rear axle weight exceeds that ratings for a SRW then you need a DRW. If you think that 2 extra tires will save you somewhere in the future then buy a DRW. The way I see it I 6 other tires that are just as capable of blowing out and the rear truck tires are the least dangerous ones to go (IMO). The fronts have almost as much load and I don't want one of those to go, that wouldn't end well.

I hauled our fiver for 3 yrs with a DRW and one year so far with a SRW. Driven properly the SRW is the same ride and towing experience.

The SRW/DRW argument will never end. Assuming you're in specs with either then it's a personal choice. If you're uncomfortable seeing one on the road then just pass it or stay well behind.

I didn't make any claims in any of those threads about his combo being within spec.

Also, when I cringe, it's when I see the heavy 5ers and SRW, the ones in the 16k+ GVW range, not the lighter weight rigs like yours.

The Coachmen 395RL is one of those 16k+ GVW rigs. His experience confirms why I cringe.

[PlayersZ28]

Originally Posted by Lowmiler

I didn't make any claims in any of those threads about his combo being within spec.

Also, when I cringe, it's when I see the heavy 5ers and SRW, the ones in the 16k+ GVW range, not the lighter weight rigs like yours.

The Coachmen 395RL is one of those 16k+ GVW rigs. His experience confirms why I cringe.

Yes, sorry, it was you relating that he was adamant he was within spec. He wasn't.

Mine is 15k GVWR. I'm 23,400# total on the scales when travelling. That's with full fuel and empty trailer tanks. My rear axle load is right at the sticker number for my truck. Like I said, the important number is the pin wt vs payload capacity. My truck is rated to "tow" more but I can't have more on the pin. Now, if I get my wife to remove all her clothes from the front closet I'd take 2-300# off the pin.

[DonaandDon]

I'm siding with "Grumpy". Were and have been "Winter Texans" for several years. I do tow with a 3/4 SRW. Of course we have additional springs and Timbrens. It rides very nicely. A good slider coupled to a good king pin has very limited chug effect. We tow 1. During good weather, at 60mph, and I will testify that we get passed by "EVERYONE", unless THEY are having some sort of problem.


Arrive alive: Steady as she goes their shipmate !!!

[AKRUEBBE]

Originally Posted by DonaandDon

I'm siding with "Grumpy". Were and have been "Winter Texans" for several years. I do tow with a 3/4 SRW. Of course we have additional springs and Timbrens. It rides very nicely. A good slider coupled to a good king pin has very limited chug effect. We tow 1. During good weather, at 60mph, and I will testify that we get passed by "EVERYONE", unless THEY are having some sort of problem.


Arrive alive: Steady as she goes their shipmate !!!

I agree, 60 mph is very comfortable........that's why there is a "special" lane just for us!

[jasum]

Originally Posted by PlayersZ28

Yes, sorry, it was you relating that he was adamant he was within spec. He wasn't.

Mine is 15k GVWR. I'm 23,400# total on the scales when travelling. That's with full fuel and empty trailer tanks. My rear axle load is right at the sticker number for my truck. Like I said, the important number is the pin wt vs payload capacity. My truck is rated to "tow" more but I can't have more on the pin. Now, if I get my wife to remove all her clothes from the front closet I'd take 2-300# off the pin.

Try that Players and see how that turns out for you..........LOL

[RedHorse1]

Met a fellow a while back towing a big toy hauler (16k#) with an F150. I asked how it towed and he said, “air bags to level it, tow’s great”. Also discovered he leased his TV’s. Would hate to look in the rearview and see him behind me or discover I’d bought his returned lease truck. Either way, baaaad mojo.

[Shall36]

Originally Posted by AKRUEBBE

I agree, 60 mph is very comfortable........that's why there is a "special" lane just for us!

I think the peer-reviewed traffic engineering literature tends to support the position that speed variance is a contributor to accidents more so that average speed. No one should operate a vehicle at a speed that makes the vehicle unstable or uncontrollable nor should they operate at a speed that they do not feel comfortable with. A properly configured truck/trailer combination will be very stable and safe traveling at 75 mph so long as conditions are good and there is minimal variance in the speed of traffic on that road. It very well may be that a SRW truck cannot be stable and safe with the large trailers discussed in this thread, and that's certainly an important discussion to have. The point of this comment is to address the notion that traveling 60 mph on a road that has a higher posted limit and higher average speeds for other motorist is somehow safer than the same rig driving at 70 mph on the same stretch of road. Some thoughts to consider:



- Nothing wrong with towing at 60 mph so long as it's done on a highway where the speed limit is similar (i.e., 60, 65).



- If the rig is unstable at higher speeds, then consideration should be given to making the rig more stable at those higher speeds. In the spirit of the existing thread, this may require towing with DRW truck instead of a SRW truck.



- Given the almost ubiquitous adoption of higher speed limits in the wake of the removal of the federal 55 mph limit, owners and operators of all rigs (e.g., RVs, commercial truck/trailer combinations) should seek to configure their rigs to be safe and stable at speeds much closer to the limits on the roads they travel most often.


- If the driver himself/herself is not comfortable operating the rig at speeds close to the posted limit because of physical/physiological limitations or because the rig does not perform well at those speeds, they should consider traveling on secondary roads with lower posted limits.



Traveling at 60 mph when the posted limit is 70 mph may be more dangerous than traveling in the same rig at 65 or 70 mph on the same stretch of road. The point here is that operating a rig at 60 in a 70 may actually cause more harm than good.





https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa15/2015/...peed-variance/


https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED312438


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...nalCode=utss20

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Shall36

I think the peer-reviewed traffic engineering literature tends to support the position that speed variance is a contributor to accidents more so that average speed.

Then why is 45 MPH the acceptable right lane speed on the Interstates. There are still numerous trucking companies who govern their rigs for 65 as well as many states with 60 or 65 the "legal" limit for trucks. Also numerous RV's still come with tires rated for 65 MPH.

I agree if someone is poking along, at or below the "legal" limit, in the left or center lane it is an issue, but not when running in the right lane.

[Shall36]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Then why is 45 MPH the acceptable right lane speed on the Interstates. There are still numerous trucking companies who govern their rigs for 65 as well as many states with 60 or 65 the "legal" limit for trucks. Also numerous RV's still come with tires rated for 65 MPH.

I agree if someone is poking along, at or below the "legal" limit, in the left or center lane it is an issue, but not when running in the right lane.

I can't tell you why a given governing body allows for 45 to be the minimum. My guess is that the decision to allow that did not consider the current research literature and likely goes back many years.



I don't think the idea of different speed limits for trucks and cars is without controversy.



A lot of highway regulation is out dated and changes do not keep up with the pace of technology.



The issue still remains that speed variance is a major contributor to accidents. It's very possible that some highway regulations actually contribute to a less safe situation.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Shall36

I can't tell you why a given governing body allows for 45 to be the minimum. My guess is that the decision to allow that did not consider the current research literature and likely goes back many years.

I don't care how you try to spin it SRW, DRW with a trailer, these rigs are not designed for excessive speed.

Right from NHTSA.....

Speeding endangers everyone on the road: In 2016, speeding killed 10,111 people, accounting for more than a quarter (27%) of all traffic fatalities that year. We all know the frustrations of modern life and juggling a busy schedule, but speed limits are put in place to protect all road users. Learn about the dangers of speeding and why faster doesn’t mean safer.

[Mopar_Earl]

I'm a 5 over the limit kind of guy, towing or not.

SRW vs DRW? I'm a SRW kinda guy. But I don't exceed my limits. Now if I was to buy one of those big fancy units, I'd go with DRW so I'm within limits. So I say if you're within the limits, why worry about it? If you're grossly over, you really should ponder a larger and/or DRW truck. Little over, no biggy. Little I mean a hundred or so lbs, not a thousand. Lol


Earl

[PlayersZ28]

Originally Posted by Mopar_Earl

I'm a 5 over the limit kind of guy, towing or not.

SRW vs DRW? I'm a SRW kinda guy. But I don't exceed my limits. Now if I was to buy one of those big fancy units, I'd go with DRW so I'm within limits. So I say if you're within the limits, why worry about it? If you're grossly over, you really should ponder a larger and/or DRW truck. Little over, no biggy. Little I mean a hundred or so lbs, not a thousand. Lol


Earl

^^^ what Earl said

[edatlanta]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I don't care how you try to spin it SRW, DRW with a trailer, these rigs are not designed for excessive speed.

Right from NHTSA.....

Speeding endangers everyone on the road: In 2016, speeding killed 10,111 people, accounting for more than a quarter (27%) of all traffic fatalities that year. We all know the frustrations of modern life and juggling a busy schedule, but speed limits are put in place to protect all road users. Learn about the dangers of speeding and why faster doesn’t mean safer.

X2

Agree completely.

I wonder when some of the extra tires on the rear crowd will try to add duals to the front? I am personally more concerned about a blowout on a steering wheel than a rear. Yes I know there is less weight on the front. I also have seen one tire blow on a set of duals and the extra weight dropping on the remaining tire blowing it out as well and have seen this on tandem axle trailers also.

60 is plenty fast enough for me, but in the right lane only. When on 2 lane roads I also drive no more than 60 and will pull off when I get a some pile up behind me. I'm retired and I will get there on my own time line.

[cariboocreek]

I have towed with SRW and DRW. Just traded my 3500 SRW and picked up a Dually. Not because my SRW was not capable. We hauled our 351 rsts at max weight and were always just within the max. We moved back to a DRW only because of the deal my dealer through at me. I agree with an earlier poster that I am more concerned about seeing fifth wheels being hauled around behind 1/2 ton trucks than I am with a big fiver behind a 1 ton diesel with all the other stuff the 1 ton has going for it.

Bottom line is drive what you want, drive smart, be safe. That doesn’t always mean we need a Freightliner.....

[SmokinJoe747]

After reading everyone's replies in this post, all of which have very good information, it dawned on me that this is no different than selecting the truck brand you like.

SRW or DRW... Chevy, Dodge or Ford... pick one and be happy - As long as you are within weight limits & specs, all is good!

I will add this though - When my wife and I first started RVing we had a 31' travel trailer and a GMC 2500 Duramax. We had the sway bars and all, towed with no problems at all. When we upgraded to a fifth wheel, my 2500 wasn't rated to tow that much weight, therefore we had to upgrade the truck as well. After doing some research, the F-450 found a spot in our driveway and man, WHAT A DIFFERENCE TOWING!

Now I don't know whether to attribute the difference to having DRWs or just because it's a 5'er. Perhaps a combo of both - but WOW! No more "white knuckles" for me! So relaxing to drive.

[putz]

Everyone talks about going up hill when the important thing is going DOWN hill.
Wrecks due to mechanical brake failure happen when you cannot stop because
the brakes are overheated. If you drive the mountains out west you need big
brakes.
You can put on all the airbags and overload springs you want but you still have the small brakes on 1/2 & 3/4 tons PU's