The joys of buying a third hand unit...

[TwinCommander]

So, in the Spring of last year I bought my 95 Eagle 263 RKS... I got a good season out of it, no real issues to speak of. Fixed everything i knew about. Even got a good 1000 miles of towing out of it...

Then the "el nino" season started. The previous winter, spring, and summer were really dry. This fall and winter though, its been pretty wet for us. 8" of rain, 3" of snow, all in one month. This is when the ugly of this buy shows its ugly face, and when I realized I got had in this transaction...





The entire roof is wasted. I knew i might have had some issues, but the entire front seam is leaking. There are leaks all over this thing. 1 window, the slide seal, and a couple other roof leaks, including 1 in the cabinet that holds the TV and stereo.

Some of you might say "why didn't you check the roof and leak check the unit before you bought it?" Well, it never crossed my mind at the time, and i should have known better, especially since i dropped 5k for a 5th, in what i now know is unfavorable condition, that was available on a sellers market.

I invested in a nice cover for it, and got air, heat, and desicant in the trailer in hopes of drying some of the air out. I'm unable to do most physical labor at the moment due to a shoulder injury... so I'm hopeful that the little bit i have done will be enough to limit how much it stews in its own juices.

I'm weighing my options, as to replace the roof and repair the water damage, have the roof replaced by a shop, or just cutting my losses, getting a little bit of money out of it, and getting something newer, and knowingly not leaking.

Anyone know anyone in the Portland Metro area that replaces RV roofs at a reasonable price?

[THE MEEKER]

20 years of service and use are pretty much all you can expect out of RV's these days. Because of its age, I would do what you suggested as your second option and cut your losses. I wish you well on whatever you decide to do.

[Crabman]

You won`t know until you do some digging, but could run into the proverbial can of worms scenario if you do.
The plywood roof could be bad as well as the walls now that water has infiltrated them. If it has the rubber roof it is already past its life expectancy. But you don`t know until you look just how bad it is. If they have to replace the wood and rubber roof it will be a substantial investment, even if the walls are OK.

[TwinCommander]

The worst thing about this is, knowing I got had, knowing im out that money because i really doubt ill get enough to make it worth buying something else.

I've looked at the current local market for used units, and see alot in the 15k - 20k range. Anyone else know of anything out there?

[DanNJanice]

Originally Posted by TwinCommander

The worst thing about this is, knowing I got had, knowing im out that money because i really doubt ill get enough to make it worth buying something else.

I've looked at the current local market for used units, and see alot in the 15k - 20k range. Anyone else know of anything out there?

I am really sorry to hear about your situation, that is always a risk with a used trailer.
Regarding used trailers, the best buys are often from a private seller. However, those trailers may be taken off the market until spring, as most sellers know they won't get a decent offer during the winter. I would wait a couple of months, once spring arrives you will see the selection of trailers pick up quite a bit. Also, people will be more likely to buy yours as a project trailer.

[TwinCommander]

Ive researched a bit, and myself have decided what i would want for our family: a bunkhouse of some kind.

We started exploring new options today. First stop was the Keystone store. The sales guy showed us a Cougar HT 284BHD. This thing has a huge ceiling, as well as a pretty decent sized bunk area. But the unit had some fit and finish issues that will probably bug me. The particular unit, with an auto-level system, electric awning, 2 slides, outdoor kitchen, and built in multi channel surround sound: $37000 out the door.

Tomorrow we are making a trip to the jayco store to see what they have to offer.

[Camping_J]

I was in almost the same boat as you. We had a 1999 Dutchman 5er that had a roof leak. We only noticed the paneling under the bunks being bubbled up so I was going to just fix the paneling under the bunks (no sees under there anyway), but the wall studs we all rotten and we kept chasing the water damage to the roof. We ended up almost rebuilding the back 6 feet of the camper from the frame to the rubber roof. I was able to all the work myself with the help of my DW. We ended up getting it all back together and used it for another year and sold it at the end of the season last year. Now after a lot of searching and comparing we have ordered a Jayco Eagle HT 29.5bhds bunkhouse, if you liked that cougar you looked at, you should look at the Eagle HT bunkhouses

[Bassdogs]

Given the age and multi owners, you probably picked it up for peanuts. If it has a lot of good components, you might want to see if you can find a newer TT that has some issues like water heater, fridge, etc that you can get for a steal and combine the stuff from your water damaged unit and end up with a usable one. In the end you might be able to salvage a few years of camping out of it.

[RodgerS]

From my inspector's perspective, the roof, chassis, tires, and motor (if mh) are the top 4 critical elements. You must always assume there are problems and your job is to find them and hire people to help you. That is known as your due diligence cost.

We learn best from our mistakes. I estimate that 80-95% of the buyers can not do a reasonable job of inspecting or PDIing their purchase, so you have plenty of company,

If you choose to accept the RV challenge to become one of the 5-20%, you have to spend a lot of time and $$ learning, buying tools, and accepting the complexity of what you are being presented with.

For example, if I had been in your shoes, one of the things I would have done is paid to have an independent company air pressure/bubble test your unit for leaks before finalizing the deal.

[RodgerS]

"20 years of service and use are pretty much all you can expect out of RV's these days."

If you are looking at a premium dp motorhome, that would not be the case if they had a reasonable amount of maintenance done annually. They are built to last, somewhere in the range of 500k to a million miles. Just like a semi-hauler that will go a million miles. The house may turn to junk, but as long as the engine and chassis are in good shape, it can continue onward with rebuilding efforts.

Depreciation is mostly on the house. For sure, any 20 year old can be expected to have roofing problems that also have to be addressed.

The dirty problem is the owners who don't keep up the maintenance and make cheapskate repairs only for those required repair items.

So the key is the inspection, the expertise you hire, and your personal skills to fix, maintain, or rebuild stuff yourself.

If you look at one of the premium B's. The Mercedes sells for about 40K and the house adds another 60k to 100k more or less.

[RACarvalho]

This is a good subject.
Is it worth to take your RV to the dealer for leaking inspection once in a while?
If yes, what would be the frequency and what is the average cost of that inspection?

Tks,
Ricardo

[RodgerS]

Severe and expensive damage can be done from water intrusion. Much of the damage, as I understand it, occurs over time. By the time you can see the damage inside, the behind the walls and under the floor and ceiling damage is likely to be extensive. Iceberg effect.

You need to check with your local RV repair facility to see what tests they use or if they farm it out and then get quotes. There are also ultrasound tests and camera insertions.

This stuff just breaks and falls apart on its own schedule largely based on the quality of the unit, usage, storage, and preventative maintenance.

If you care you will be constantly hunting for all kinds of problems, not just water intrusion. How often you have any maintenance or inspections done is a "depends."

Personally, if I owned a premium dp I would have a pressure test/soap bubble test just after the summer season and before the rains. I would water spray it as well, do some ultrasounds, and carefully check the top of the roof, the sides, the windows, the doors visually and with finger and foot push tests for soft spots. Every month I would be inspecting, using, and driving it.

I'm nuts if you wish to say so.

Someone would offer other recommendations. I would be checking the undercarriage yearly for rust. I would have yearly fluids pulled and tested, tracking changes over time.

When buying I would be searching the particular mh on multiple forums, check the VIN at CarFax, review the recall notices, etc. etc.

I would carefully document my electrical systems, and yearly check all my ground and other connections to be sure they are dry, clean, and tight.

Be an expert on batteries, maintenance, etc. An expert on all my electrical systems, hookups, pedestal evaluation, voltage monitoring and protection.

There are plenty of resources available already.

My attitude is that if working on, inspecting, and doing preventative maintenance on your RV is fun and interesting, you will probably have a lot more joy.

In other words, for me, it is all about destinations for using your RV and all about the preventative and repair and upgrade maintenance journey for keeping the dream alive.

Yes it costs a lot and few owners really care IMO...they just wanna have fun.

Yesterday, I warranty inspected a mh that the owner paid $10 over nada book for, and in winter. I found so many problems he missed, some expensive, he looked like I hit him with a shovel. Many prior problems had really cheap repairs made. The mh is turning into a piece of junk and he is out of pocket over $55 grand cash.

[RACarvalho]

Roger, I'm a Mechanical engineer that likes to keep things working properly so I do maintenance when it is due and I have a boat that sits on the water constantly so I'm kind like you and I know that owing those things is a constant search for the next fix, but my question was related to the roof and to be more specific, the silicone they use to seal everything.
In boats we use Sikaflex and I already saw 30 year old boats that Sikaflex is still holding, but I don't know RV's.
In a recent RV show, the sales guy told me 10 years for a complete reseal...
I'd like to hear the take of those that actually own trailers, is 10 years safe for a trailer that is used 5 weeks during the year and is kept under cover? (that will be my case).

Tks,
R

[RodgerS]

There are a variety of resealing materials and approaches out there, as well as a variety of types of roofs. It is important that you use sealants compatible with the material your RV roof and other products you are sealing are constructed out of.

Try "rv roof resealing" to search the internet.

Example: Eternabond, Dicor Lap sealants.

Dicor EPDM lap sealant is specially formulated for EPDM roofing and it works on galvanized metal, aluminum and fiberglass roofs. The Dicor Ultra Sealant System is specially formulated for RV TPO roofing.

ETERNABOND® is the only MicroSealant® in a tape form available that will stop virtually any leak or water proof any surface in minutes.

From the manufacturer to the tradesman to the homeowner, more and more people are trusting EternaBond® for permanent repairs on non pressurized leaks. EternaBond®'s MicroSealant® adhesive provides a permanent bond to virtually all surfaces. By following our easy 3 step instructions, you too will be amazed at the simplicity of installation and bonding strength of EternaBond® tapes.

See How do I Reseal my RV Roof Seams & Sealants? | RV 101® your education source for RV information

RV armor Welcome to RV Armor - Home, a high-performance single-component polymer is applied as a liquid, then cures within four hours into a watertight, puncture and UV resistant roof membrane. Lifetime guarantee

[RodgerS]

Will throw in this buying tip.

Whatever you spend on checking an RV out should give you plenty of bargaining power for the final cost. It is a buyers market out there. If you find a lot of stuff wrong it is the cheapest insurance you can buy and walk away. If not then you are getting a good vehicle and pay the going price.

[norty1]

RACarvalho
Most people that avoid roof leaks do a roof inspection once or twice a year. Which includes inspecting the roof material for tears, checking all seams and roof openings for cracks or shrinkage.
Personally I would not leave this to someone I do not trust. Many dealerships will do this for a couple hundred dollars. If you are well versed in what to look for, it is easily done in a hour or so..

Regular attention will add many trouble free years to the roof material.

There are lots of different opinions about cleaning and treatments. I would read and follow the manufacturers recommendation.

[TwinCommander]

Again, it was my fault that i didnt check the roof. I checked the chassis, electrical, heater... gave the insides a real good once over. Saw no issues. I just didnt take the time to look at the roof. When i did go look at it, i saw patch after patch. It had a very slight mildew smell, and at the time, i thought nothing of it other than "we can febreeze this thing!"

One condition of a new rig is that it cant be new, fiance says so, and there are hardly any units available for the price shes willing to be 100% ok with. The dealer showed up this one online: Used 2011 Keystone Cougar Fifth Wheel Trailer For Sale In Wood Village, OR - POR1273434 - Camping World

They will sell it for about $23k. They are moving it tomorrow to their store so i can look through it. $240 to $270 a month for a payment is what they through at me.

[RodgerS]

I have only used free NADA public RV for motorhomes and when I do I try to do it dealer style which is to ignore options. However, there is a version for dealers I would purchase if I was getting serious. My initial run shows high NADA at 28,400 and this is winter with few customers. Someone might adjust this or use a different source.

I don't like Camping World in general and I think that goes for a lot of people across forums. Not to say there would not be an exception. Usually they are overpriced and service is lousy.

Anyway take that into consideration. Inspect the heck out of it and do what makes sense to you, but assuming you used my numbers you ought to be paying even less in winter.

Here is my question, if you don't have a pricing reference point, and something like NADA is a calculated, not a market number, just how do you have a clue what the price should be?

You want to have fun? Ask them how they determined their number and have them explain their process to you.

I was looking at a dp online that was $20 above high nada. I asked them how they priced it and they said high nada. I quoted them my high nada and asked them to explain how they came up with their number. They never called me back.

I mentioned NADA to one seller and he accused me of playing my cards close and acting like I didn't know what I was doing.

One last question...why aren't you buying from a private party than a @# dealer.

[TwinCommander]

Because my last unit was private party. I'm leery now, but not totally closed off. Ill look at NADA tonight for this one. I didn't get that far.

If you are curious though, I don't think they are getting my business. Gut tells me something isn't right with this deal. I'm thinking at this point that i should keep looking, and get closer to the camping season and see what pops up then. By then i may have use of my arm, and may look into a hold over repair on what i got.

You may have just saved me from being suckered, again. For that, you have my thanks!

[Bassdogs]

Knowing the owner and rv history is key to avoiding surprises. Not a guarantee but sure is miles ahead of a stranger. Boats are the same, they for the most part can look great but below deck out of sight full of nightmares. Good luck.