Towing 2018 30.5 MLOK fifth wheel with half ton pick up

[Kway3]

Just lending my experience of towing our 2018 30.5 MLOK fifth with our half ton Ford pick up.
We decided to downsize from our Cedar Creek 34 RLSA which was 4’ longer and 4000 lbs heavier than our current Jayco. We pulled it with a 2016 Ford F-250 Power Stroke which pulled it with relative ease. I had some issues with the def system on the diesel and since we pull less than 1500 miles a year of the 20,000 I drive yearly, I decided to go for comfort and a better ride with a 2018 F150 XTR with the max tow package and with that we decided to also downsize our fifth wheel.
I installed Air Lift air bags and run them with 40 lbs of air and lowered the pin box to give myself a bit more room between the rails and the fifth wheel. It runs about an inch or two high but now there’s 7” of space between the rails and fifth wheel.
We just returned from a 600 mile (1000km) round trip through north eastern Ontario with a trip through Toronto each way. The truck and trailer combination surprised me in how well it handled. Other than a little chucking over some deep dips and rough spots, it handled very well.
Braking was good, not great but if you leave enough space there are no worries, even through Toronto traffic.
The truck has ample pulling power through the long climbs and surprised me in the fuel mileage. I set the cruise at 65mph (105 km/h) and averaged a little over 9 mpg (26l/100 km) for the entire trip including a bit of a head wind coming home. I wasn’t sure what to expect but overall I’m happy with it.
Overall I was very impressed with both the handling and the pulling power. It’s no diesel but for $9000 less and a better ride for the 95% of the time I’m not pulling, I have no complaints, in fact I’m very happy overall.
A little background on me. I’ve been driving tractor trailer full time for 25 years with almost 2 million miles of safe driving in both the city and on the highway. I’ve also been pulling different size fifth wheels for 20 years from 23’ to 37’ and 5000 lbs to 15000. To be honest this combination pulls and handles as well as any we’ve owned.

[AKRUEBBE]

Originally Posted by Kway3

Just lending my experience of towing our 2018 30.5 MLOK fifth with our half ton Ford pick up.
We decided to downsize from our Cedar Creek 34 RLSA which was 4’ longer and 4000 lbs heavier than our current Jayco. We pulled it with a 2016 Ford F-250 Power Stroke which pulled it with relative ease. I had some issues with the def system on the diesel and since we pull less than 1500 miles a year of the 20,000 I drive yearly, I decided to go for comfort and a better ride with a 2018 F150 XTR with the max tow package and with that we decided to also downsize our fifth wheel.
I installed Air Lift air bags and run them with 40 lbs of air and lowered the pin box to give myself a bit more room between the rails and the fifth wheel. It runs about an inch or two high but now there’s 7” of space between the rails and fifth wheel.
We just returned from a 600 mile (1000km) round trip through north eastern Ontario with a trip through Toronto each way. The truck and trailer combination surprised me in how well it handled. Other than a little chucking over some deep dips and rough spots, it handled very well.
Braking was good, not great but if you leave enough space there are no worries, even through Toronto traffic.
The truck has ample pulling power through the long climbs and surprised me in the fuel mileage. I set the cruise at 65mph (105 km/h) and averaged a little over 9 mpg (26l/100 km) for the entire trip including a bit of a head wind coming home. I wasn’t sure what to expect but overall I’m happy with it.
Overall I was very impressed with both the handling and the pulling power. It’s no diesel but for $9000 less and a better ride for the 95% of the time I’m not pulling, I have no complaints, in fact I’m very happy overall.
A little background on me. I’ve been driving tractor trailer full time for 25 years with almost 2 million miles of safe driving in both the city and on the highway. I’ve also been pulling different size fifth wheels for 20 years from 23’ to 37’ and 5000 lbs to 15000. To be honest this combination pulls and handles as well as any we’ve owned.

Have you had it weighed yet to compare to your trucks specs?

[Kway3]

Originally Posted by AKRUEBBE

Have you had it weighed yet to compare to your trucks specs?

I’ve never had a truck scaled. Not a big believer in nitpicking over a couple hundred pounds.
If it sits level, pulls well and I’m comfortable with it, I think that’s all that matters.

[Quick Step]

Originally Posted by Kway3

I’ve never had a truck scaled. Not a big believer in nitpicking over a couple hundred pounds.
If it sits level, pulls well and I’m comfortable with it, I think that’s all that matters.

I agree, to much nitpicking about needing bigger trucks to pull a camper.

[K Holbrook]

Every truck coming from the factory has a “maximum cargo capacity” rating that appears on the yellow/white door sticker. That is something that you absolutely have to look at when deciding on how much trailer you can pull. Airbags do not add one ounce of additional cargo carrying capacity to your truck. It just makes it so your truck doesn’t squat when loaded to the gills. Your truck can pull the load, that’s not the issue, but the weight that is sitting on your tires and axle is the big concern. The F-150’s typically do not have very robust cargo capacity ratings. I would double check just for your safety and others on the road. The last thing you want to have happen is to hit a bump in the road and have your axle fracture or blow-out a tire on the highway. You need to make sure that your payload rating is around 2500 pounds, because the hitch weight of your 30.5 MLOK is 1519 pounds. Once you add in weight of the passengers, the hitch, propane and battery and 250 pounds of gear (which is traveling ultra-light) you’re easily up to 1000 pounds. Add that to your hitch weight of 1519 and you’re sitting at around 2500 pounds. If your truck is only rated at say 1800-2000 pounds, then you’re not only putting yourself at risk, but you’ll void the warranty if yo do have an incident.

[Mopar_Earl]

Earl

[Kway3]

Maybe someone can explain this to me. I have set my truck up perfect. Everything is within specs. My pin weight is 1500 lbs. That weight is over my rear axle. My buddy “Bubba” comes camping with me. He’s 350 lbs. Now I’m 350 lbs over my payload. Bubba is sitting in the front passenger seat. How does Bubbas extra weight that is 75% to the front right of the truck all of a sudden get shifted to the fifth wheel of my truck, causing catastrophic damage to my trucks axle and tires?

[garyp4951]

Originally Posted by K Holbrook

Every truck coming from the factory has a “maximum cargo capacity” rating that appears on the yellow/white door sticker. That is something that you absolutely have to look at when deciding on how much trailer you can pull. Airbags do not add one ounce of additional cargo carrying capacity to your truck. It just makes it so your truck doesn’t squat when loaded to the gills. Your truck can pull the load, that’s not the issue, but the weight that is sitting on your tires and axle is the big concern. The F-150’s typically do not have very robust cargo capacity ratings. I would double check just for your safety and others on the road. The last thing you want to have happen is to hit a bump in the road and have your axle fracture or blow-out a tire on the highway. You need to make sure that your payload rating is around 2500 pounds, because the hitch weight of your 30.5 MLOK is 1519 pounds. Once you add in weight of the passengers, the hitch, propane and battery and 250 pounds of gear (which is traveling ultra-light) you’re easily up to 1000 pounds. Add that to your hitch weight of 1519 and you’re sitting at around 2500 pounds. If your truck is only rated at say 1800-2000 pounds, then you’re not only putting yourself at risk, but you’ll void the warranty if yo do have an incident.

You must be a ranking member of the weight police.

[jimp]

Originally Posted by Kway3

Maybe someone can explain this to me. I have set my truck up perfect. Everything is within specs. My pin weight is 1500 lbs. That weight is over my rear axle. My buddy “Bubba” comes camping with me. He’s 350 lbs. Now I’m 350 lbs over my payload. Bubba is sitting in the front passenger seat. How does Bubbas extra weight that is 75% to the front right of the truck all of a sudden get shifted to the fifth wheel of my truck, causing catastrophic damage to my trucks axle and tires?

You say your pin weight is 1500# but you also state that you don't believe in "nitpicking" or going to a scale. So where did you get the 1500# pin weight? From the sales brochure? A professional truck driver should know published specs are not all that accurate.

If you have not weighed the TV/TT at a scale, you really don't know if you're withing "specs" or not. You are guessing (hoping) that you are within specs.

If your buddy Bubba puts you 350# over your payload, then it sounds like you have about 1500-1700# payload on your F150. Post a picture of the yellow sticker on the DS door that indicates the payload for your truck.

[Kway3]

Originally Posted by jimp

You say your pin weight is 1500# but you also state that you don't believe in "nitpicking" or going to a scale. So where did you get the 1500# pin weight? From the sales brochure? A professional truck driver should know published specs are not all that accurate.

If you have not weighed the TV/TT at a scale, you really don't know if you're withing "specs" or not. You are guessing (hoping) that you are within specs.

If your buddy Bubba puts you 350# over your payload, then it sounds like you have about 1500-1700# payload on your F150. Post a picture of the yellow sticker on the DS door that indicates the payload for your truck.

It was a hypothetical question.
I was putting numbers out to try to understand how the payload affects my axle weight. If there’s “1500 lbs” over my axle because of the weight of the trailer how does “Bubba’s” extra 350 in the front seat all of a sudden result in catastrophic numbers on my axle. Axle weight and payload are two separate issues as far as I’m concerned. I’d much rather be on my numbers axle wise and be over on my payload instead of the other way around.

[K Holbrook]

The hitch weight published by Jayco for your 5th wheel is the approximate weight of the hitch BEFORE you put propane tanks, battery, or any gear in your unit. The Payload capacity listed for your truck is specific to your truck! It takes into consideration options and so forth that reduce how much weight you can safely put inside your truck, and that also includes passengers. Look at the yellow sticker on your driver side door and read what the manufacturer says is the “Maximum Payload Capacity” for your truck. You may be under, but then again you could be way over. Either way, wouldn’t you want to know?

[Kway3]

Originally Posted by K Holbrook

The hitch weight published by Jayco for your 5th wheel is the approximate weight of the hitch BEFORE you put propane tanks, battery, or any gear in your unit. The Payload capacity listed for your truck is specific to your truck! It takes into consideration options and so forth that reduce how much weight you can safely put inside your truck, and that also includes passengers. Look at the yellow sticker on your driver side door and read what the manufacturer says is the “Maximum Payload Capacity” for your truck. You may be under, but then again you could be way over. Either way, wouldn’t you want to know?

The addition of propane, battery and any gear is loaded approximately 8’ from the pin of the fifth wheel which is approximately halfway to the axles of the trailer and 3’ below the pin. A lot of that additional weight is going to be taken up by the trailer axles. Our model has a rear kitchen and we carry 3 bikes. The weight of the food in our pantry and of the bikes more than makes up for the additional weight a third of the way from the pin of the fifth wheel.
I know the payload of my truck and I also know the axle capacity of my rear axle. Weight distribution is much more important in my opinion than payload.

[Lowmiler]

Originally Posted by Kway3

Weight distribution is much more important in my opinion than payload.

And running it over the scales will reveal if your assumptions about how your weight is distributed are correct or not.

Or maybe you don’t really want to know?

[Kway3]

Originally Posted by Lowmiler

And running it over the scales will reveal if your assumptions about how your weight is distributed are correct or not.

Or maybe you don’t really want to know?

It’s not a case of not wanting to know, it’s not being worried about it. I’m more concerned with the ride, the way the truck pulls, stops and handles than I am with being 300 lbs over or under my payload.
Like I said, I was very pleased with how the truck performed on my most recent trip. It pulled, handled and stopped almost as well as my 3/4 ton diesel did with our old trailer.

[Lowmiler]

Originally Posted by Kway3

It’s not a case of not wanting to know, it’s not being worried about it. I’m more concerned with the ride, the way the truck pulls, stops and handles than I am with being 300 lbs over or under my payload.
Like I said, I was very pleased with how the truck performed on my most recent trip. It pulled, handled and stopped almost as well as my 3/4 ton diesel did with our old trailer.

Again, 300lbs is an assumption.

Curious: at what "overweight" amount would you personally get concerned?

Many here have been shocked when finally measuring pin weight via scale.

[K Holbrook]

I’m certain that there are hundreds of rigs on the road that are way heavier than what the truck manufacturer considers safe. I for one do not want to be one of them. A smooth ride in no way constitutes a safe ride. I speak for a bunch of us here when I say “it’s worth looking into it!” Thanks

[Kway3]

Originally Posted by K Holbrook

Every truck coming from the factory has a “maximum cargo capacity” rating that appears on the yellow/white door sticker. That is something that you absolutely have to look at when deciding on how much trailer you can pull. Airbags do not add one ounce of additional cargo carrying capacity to your truck. It just makes it so your truck doesn’t squat when loaded to the gills. Your truck can pull the load, that’s not the issue, but the weight that is sitting on your tires and axle is the big concern. The F-150’s typically do not have very robust cargo capacity ratings. I would double check just for your safety and others on the road. The last thing you want to have happen is to hit a bump in the road and have your axle fracture or blow-out a tire on the highway. You need to make sure that your payload rating is around 2500 pounds, because the hitch weight of your 30.5 MLOK is 1519 pounds. Once you add in weight of the passengers, the hitch, propane and battery and 250 pounds of gear (which is traveling ultra-light) you’re easily up to 1000 pounds. Add that to your hitch weight of 1519 and you’re sitting at around 2500 pounds. If your truck is only rated at say 1800-2000 pounds, then you’re not only putting yourself at risk, but you’ll void the warranty if yo do have an incident.

I just happened to be looking around at other posts and found this quote from you!

The hitch weight of my trailer is 2820 pounds empty. As I mentioned previously the cargo capacity of my truck is 3660 pounds. Once I added the weight of me, my wife and small dog, the 5th wheel hitch itself, two full propane tanks, and a battery, it didn’t leave but about 250 pounds for gear and clothing. That’s why I’m using the cargo carrier on the back. I’ve heard from my Ford dealership that the cargo capacity is always rated lower than posted (could be as high as 10%) because they know people are going to take it to the limits. A customer service rep from GM told me that several years ago relative to their towing capacity on a GMC vehicle. So the cargo carrier gives me great piece of mind, plus it does absolutely nothing to the stability of the ride and towability.

According to what you told me 1000lbs was on the conservative side, which would put you over your own capacities. Even if your not you’re right at the very capacity of your tow vehicle.
From looking at your setup I see you’re pulling a 17000 lb fifth wheel with a single axle 1 ton pick up! You’re giving me **** for being on the edge with my combination but your doing the exact same thing!
Frigging Hypocrite!

[K Holbrook]

Sorry you think I’m a hypocrite, but you’re missing my point entirely. I’ve got a 1 ton truck, you’ve got a 1/2 ton truck. I’m trying to be realistic at how close to the edge I am. But it appears that you couldn’t care less. All you’re concerned with is the ride. Plus I’m not giving you $&#@! We were merely talking. But you’re the seasoned professional. Who am I to say otherwise? It was nice chatting with you.

[RipinSC]

One item to consider is if you get in an accident and the insurance company finds you are over your trucks gcwr, you will not be covered. Also you will void your vehicle warranty. I am a retired automotive engineer and I can tell you that who ever told you it was ok to exceed the max rating by 1000 pounds has no idea what they are talking about. A simple $15 CAT scale weighing is well worth the time to do it. I keep my scale readings in my glove compartment as I am at 88% of my GVWR.

[Kway3]

Originally Posted by K Holbrook

Sorry you think I’m a hypocrite, but you’re missing my point entirely. I’ve got a 1 ton truck, you’ve got a 1/2 ton truck. I’m trying to be realistic at how close to the edge I am. But it appears that you couldn’t care less. All you’re concerned with is the ride. Plus I’m not giving you $&#@! We were merely talking. But you’re the seasoned professional. Who am I to say otherwise? It was nice chatting with you.

I’m being very realistic. With so much bias on half tons pulling fifth wheels I was trying to give a real world perspective on how I thought my truck pulled our fifth wheel. I’m not the one who jumped in with the overloaded, axle breaking and tire popping concerns.
If you read my replies, my concerns are power, handling, stopping and ride, in no particular order.
My truck has a 1900lb payload. According to you it is 10% more. That’s 2100 lbs. I have a 1500lb pin weight, 250lb of gear, battery and propane, my wife is 120lb and my hitch is 100lb. That’s less than 2000lb before you count the counter weight from the bikes and rear kitchen supplies. Even without I was 100 to 200 lbs over which is close enough that 100 miles of driving would equal it out.
I enjoy a good argument as well as anyone and if I was out of line I apologize.