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Old 01-20-2020, 11:06 AM   #1
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Water line from Tank to Pump Frozen

I went through the 1st 10+ pages and didn't see this issue presented...
2020 336FBOK Rear Living
Lows in Tennessee got down to the teens last night so as usual, I disconnected the city water line and planned to use the water from the tank (filled up). Get up this morning and water came out of the faucet and then nothing. I can hear the pump running but no water. Apparently the line from the tank to the pump is frozen.
Should I expect busted fittings? How do I take down the cover underneath to investigate? Approximately where in relation to the Tank is the suspected line? And what the hell...?
On the underside of the slide where the recliners, kitchen area, and fridge is there is an exposed white, reinforced hose but I figured that's for the Fridge.

We have had this RV for a month now having upgraded from a 27RLS. Never had any similar issues before.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:28 AM   #2
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Personally I doubt that line froze since it is protected and your furnace is putting heat into that area. It could be an air issue and the pump us just not picking up a prime. Are you sure you have the docking station valves in the right position?
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:55 PM   #3
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Our fiver had the water line freeze from the FW tank to the pump last February when we were in Tombstone. It only went down to 28 F. I talked to JAyco and they said if it goes below 40 F, you have to winterize. We ran propane heat and a 1-1/2" line ran to the back.
So much for their zero F claim. I was told if we wanted to go below freezing we would have to skirt the fiver.


The FW line exits the tank about even with the low point tank drain. That's where the water started to freeze because it tees into the line from the tank to the pump. Ours is in the back of the tank. It should have come out the front where the heat is.

We watched a video where a guy took the pex line and froze it to -10 F and it didn't break. Not sure about the brass fittings.

When it warms up you'll know if it leaks.
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:46 PM   #4
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Our water line from the tank to the pump freezes occasionally overnight when itís below the mid 20ís (F). No broken pipes or fittings. It thaws after we get the heat up.

I would be more worried about the fittings than the pipes which are PEX and break resistant to freezing.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:05 PM   #5
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I appreciate the feedback.

Yep, the valves were positioned correctly.

I called the Dealer (they had it Saturday for a Furnace issue, turns out the LP line was kinked) and he said that we may have some cracked fittings, no good way to drop the belly cover, just cut it on 3 sides and tape it back in place, put skirting around it and Jayco would NOT cover any work on this issue even though its obviously a design flaw. He recommended calling Jayco direct. I may, depending if its a pain in the arse...

Still a great RV but ironically I met a Jayco Rep this weekend at a RV show and we discussed how their quality suffered after the Thor acquisition but it got better. I asked if he was sure that they are not sliding back downhill. He said that the competition opened up down the road and stole alot of the good help.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
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I talked to JAyco and they said if it goes below 40 F, you have to winterize.

REALLY, Please tell me how water freezes at 34 degrees much less 40 degrees?
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:57 PM   #7
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These comments all amaze me since I have been out in 17 degree weather in 2 rigs, a 2001 and a 2008 that didn't have the Artic Package and nothing froze. The basement heat kept everything working.
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:44 PM   #8
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I agree with Grumpy, and the 1000ís of people who take their RVís to ski resorts every weekend. A freeze doesnít me everything is ruined.
I will admit I couldnít get my motor home thawed out when we were is -20F, but once we got off the mountain and it all thawed, no broken pipes or fittings. When I turned the water back on, I did listen and look very carefully to make sure we didnít have any issues. Itís all part of the experience. Donít limit yourself to just warm weather activities.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
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These comments all amaze me since I have been out in 17 degree weather in 2 rigs, a 2001 and a 2008 that didn't have the Artic Package and nothing froze. The basement heat kept everything working.
Be amazed some more. Jayco told me I should have purchased the 4 season package . I said I didn't know it was available and thought the climatetrol was that package. They said No, and should have bought the 4 seasons. I asked how do I get that when it's not listed on the website, nor at the dealer. I was told that since I lived in Arizona I din't need it, and only the dealer and Jayco determine this. I asked what they thought the four black things were for under the trailer. Their stance was under 40 F winterize.
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Old 01-20-2020, 05:37 PM   #10
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REALLY, Please tell me how water freezes at 34 degrees much less 40 degrees?
I'm just telling you what Jayco told and wrote to me. I said it froze at 28, not 34.


Btw the arctic package is keystone
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Old 01-21-2020, 05:52 PM   #11
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I just looked at my build sheet and thereís no 4 season package available on that either.
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Old 01-21-2020, 07:14 PM   #12
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I just looked at my build sheet and thereís no 4 season package available on that either.
JAYCO only uses the CLIMATE SHIELD, there is nothing titled 4 SEASONS in any of their specs..
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Old 01-21-2020, 10:58 PM   #13
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Call customer service. They only tell the dealers about four seasons per the guy I talked with about my freezing problem. He told me I should have bought that. However, it is not in,any of their literature. I asked why, and he didn't have,an answer. So you're right it's not in any of their literature. He did say it came on most northern Canadian trailers and fivers.
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:47 PM   #14
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Just chiming in - we've had ours NOT freeze at 28*F and freeze up twice when it was in the 'teens'.


So far, no damage. Once things thawed the pipes were fine.


Make sure your water heater is protected in some way.
And I've read that running absorption refrigerators in cold climes isn't good for them.






Jayco's stance of winterizing at 40*F was written by a lawyer. And one that probably didn't pay attention in science class.
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:57 AM   #15
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Quote:
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These comments all amaze me since I have been out in 17 degree weather in 2 rigs, a 2001 and a 2008 that didn't have the Artic Package and nothing froze. The basement heat kept everything working.
The coldest I have been through in my Designer was 8 degrees for two nights in a row a few years back. No problems at all.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:35 AM   #16
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I agree, the 40 degree statement is just so there is no freeze damage liability back to the manufacturer. In addition, itís probably to assure that antifreeze is able to get through the entire system before any parts start getting slushy.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:46 AM   #17
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What does this option include?

Canadian Standards $300.00
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:48 PM   #18
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Woke up to 27 deg this am and no water. It was just the water supply at the pedestal. Luckily we had 1/3 tank in the FW and switched over to dry camping on the panel (ran off the tank with pump). All good.


Later in the morning we ran out of soda in the fridge. Ran to the basement for more. Joan expected it to be pre-chilled in the basement, but was just a bit below room temperature. Can't see a freeze in there unless maybe the teens, but hope to never find out. The only way I'll winterize is to drive farther south.


And I'm not putting a skirt on my 5'ver; a kilt maybe, but not a skirt.
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Old 01-29-2020, 02:14 PM   #19
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I had a freeze over this past December while we were doing an overnight in the Pennsylvania mountains, it was a 20į night. Got out my auxiliary heater I carry faced it inside the plumbing controls, (which were frozen also), and ran the RV for half an hour everything thawed out fairly quickly. No issues, no busted lines or fittings. I drove for 3 more days.

If your pumps not running with all your fixtures closed, I would say you’re good to go no leaks.
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Old 01-29-2020, 03:37 PM   #20
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I've never trusted any manufacturer's cold claims. I like to err on the side of caution and to my own known calculations.

As soon as I took delivery of my 34.5 BHTS, I took the bottom down and put on tank heaters and then traced all my water lines with EasyHeat Heat trace cable (https://amzn.to/2U5CtBl). That cable isn't like standard pipe heaters. It's self-regulating along the entire length of the cable and can be wrapped over itself without worry of shorting or burning. It requires purchasing the plug end that you attach to the cable (https://amzn.to/2U6mZx2). But, it enables you to cut them to length and wrap them in figure 8's around valves and such to ensure they don't freeze.

With this cable, I would run it between the hot/cold lines, when they were run together, with the heat cable in the middle of the two. Then I would use standard pipe insulation to wrap these lines. I also used the cable on my tank valves just to be safe. They should freeze with the heat tanks, but again, I like to err on the safe side.

I've used my trailer in Colorado with a week of lows in the -40s (F) and highs in the negative single digits (F) without ever having a single line freeze. I don't underpin my 5er when I'm there either. (That's just with the underbelly coroplast and whatever ducting is present under there) My entire trailer's cabling uses about 7-8 amps (measured with a monitor) max total. It's variable depending on how cold the cable itself senses. Yes, it's a little draw, but considering you're not running A/C, it's easily absorbed in a 50 amp system.

I did the same thing on the bumper pull I had prior to my 5er. That previous trailer was a 30 amp system. On that one, I placed a 20amp inlet on the outside of the trailer and ran a 20 amp extension cord to the 20 amp plug on the pedestal at the campground so it didn't run through the internal wiring as there wasn't much extra on the 30 amp layout.

I know most will say it doesn't protect while on the road without a generator. Yes, that's true. However, I've used this setup without power while on the road for the past 12 or 13 years and never frozen up while traveling. Anything that might freeze will thaw almost immediately upon being plugged in.

For example, one year I forgot to plug in one section of trace cable when we arrived (It was before I added the external 20 amp inlet). The next morning, we didn't have water. When I realized what I had done, I plugged in the trace and within 2-3 minutes, we had water and no leaks. That was at -20F that night.

It's really a shame manufacturers don't do this when they build the trailers. At the retail I paid for my tank heaters and trace cable, it's never cost me more than $700-$800, and that's mostly due to tank heater pricing. Cabling was under $200. At wholesale, I know they could probably get that down to under $400 or so.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but thought I'd pass this along.

Tim
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