Wet -Wet-Wet storage compartment

[norty1]

Last week I was setting up in a new cg and when changing the water settings from 3 & 5 -Normal to 2 & 6 -City Fixtures, I made the mistake of setting the valve on 2 & 4 instead of 2 & 6. (See picture of my utility closet valves). We had city water. When we returned several hours later I noticed water slowly dripping out of the camper.
Closer inspection showed standing water on the storage compartment floor. No water in the living area just the storage compartment. Since it was in the mid 20's, I corrected the valve error and removed everything from the compartment and mopped up all the water.
All was well for our next 2 nights. I loaded everything and came home. removed everything again and left a dehumidifier running overnight. I dried everything out and pulled some panels in the storage area to access the pump and back of the valves.

As soon as it warms up a little, I have going to re-create the problem while looking at the area where the water came from. Since it was freezing that night I disconnected the city water and used the pump all night with no leaks or running when not in use. Hopefully I can see where it happened and learn something.

[OnTheGo]

Glad your damages are no more than water and you're handling the drying out process.

That's an odd one to diagnose. Valve positions 2 & 4 would direct water into the house plumbing. But so would 3 & 5, and 2 & 6. So if there was a bad connection it would leak in all 3 positions. The only difference between those 3 valve positions is where the water is coming from.

I'm wondering if you developed a leak in the house plumbing at the time of change over. It would be coincidence, but that's all that's coming to mind. A long shot would be a leak very close to the valves that went directly into the wet compartment, bypassing the house plumbing.

Good luck and let us know how it was resolved.

Edit 1: Where is the wet compartment in relationship to the plumbing center?

Edit 2: Positions 2 & 4 would bypass your water heater; something to look at.

[norty1]

Thanks for the ideas. I'm not sure the wh would be bypassed unless the corresponding valves were operated. 2-4 is used to sanitize lines and common sense would indicate the tank should be bypassed and the pump pulling the fluid used to sanitize the lines thru the pump. In my case I had city water pressure on the input supply and the pump was not running. We used the rig on the pump and city water and see no leaks while we were still out camping last week.
Tomorrow I will re-create the scenario and be sitting behind the valves to witness what happens.

[RedHorse1]

Our 351 is 2 years younger (‘13) and what I can see in your pic is identical to ours. Just below and to the right on ours are the bypass valves. I don’t believe Sani/Winter settings bypass the WH on our model. I’d expect something is leaking around the pump. Looking forward to hearing what you find.

[dxrobertson]

I believe 2+4 is "like" country fill in that its intended to use the onboard pump to do something (suction antifreeze). If city water pressure was connected using this 2+4 valve settings, would that route this (high) pressure to the pump input? That seems like maybe a likely leak point.

At least on my unit, the WH bypass is controlled solely by the 2 valves at the WH connections, totally unrelated to the water valves in discussion.

[norty1]

Well I finally was able to get in there and duplicate the problem. As with many things rv, the previous poster dxrobertson may have nailed it. Extended city water pressure likely blew a seal. When we put pressure to it in position 2&4 I see water seeping out of the pump body slowly but still a mess after 4 hours of dripping.
Pic #1-My finger is pointing to the leak. Pic #2- Another pic of the pump and maze of wires and hoses.
This 11 yo pump has been discontinued and the company has sold out and are now making other products in Mexico. The model I have is no longer available. I ordered a direct replacement from a company in Denver called ProGear that assembles theirs in USA and has a 1 year warranty.
Should be here tomorrow. ProGear 3200 https://us.amazon.com/Replacement-Re...s%2C107&sr=8-9

I tested the leaking spot with city water and with the pump in normal and no leaks. The pump has served us well and so it’s replaced. Maybe I’ll open it up and see if it’s repairable later but we are leaving for Fl. On 1-23 and I have a long list “to-do” before leaving.

[norty1]

My new water pump came in just over 24 hours after I ordered it on Amazon. Installation was easy. I am back in business.
I did read that the MAX input pressure on the new pump and I assume the same specs on the old pump is 30psi.

Under normal conditions there should not be any pressure on the input line so I likely did the pump in with my mis-reading the valve positions.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by norty1

The pump has served us well and so it’s replaced. Maybe I’ll open it up and see if it’s repairable later but we are leaving for Fl. On 1-23 and I have a long list “to-do” before leaving.

Glad you found it and fixed. Where are you heading in FL?

[norty1]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Glad you found it and fixed. Where are you heading in FL?

Homosassa Springs and Rainbow River SP.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by norty1

Homosassa Springs and Rainbow River SP.

Have a great time...

[norty1]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Have a great time...

We love the area for kayaking and Manatee.

[craigav]

Here is an image and the PDF it came from that helps me understand the valve setup a whole lot better than the Jayco owners manual. I can't take credit for this and I don't remember where it came from but happy to share.

I also use this chart when winterizing and using air to blow the lines as you really can't get all the water out at any one valve setting (such as blowing the lines only using 2/6, that would still leave water in some other lines).

~CA

[norty1]

Originally Posted by craigav

Here is an image and the PDF it came from that helps me understand the valve setup a whole lot better than the Jayco owners manual. I can't take credit for this and I don't remember where it came from but happy to share.

I also use this chart when winterizing and using air to blow the lines as you really can't get all the water out at any one valve setting (such as blowing the lines only using 2/6, that would still leave water in some other lines).

~CA

Thanks, I have a pretty good understanding of how mine works but have never seen this slide. I did learn that the city water pressure can damage the pump if left on the input for extended times.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by norty1

Thanks, I have a pretty good understanding of how mine works but have never seen this slide. I did learn that the city water pressure can damage the pump if left on the input for extended times.

Yes indeed, I was sharing this more for those who have questions about what each valve position actually does. Looking at what 2/4 does for example and then looking at the chart in the pdf for the 2/4 setup shows that setting would pass the full pressure from the water hose inlet connection to the pump itself.

As a note to that, I normally use about 30 psi on my air compressor to blow out the lines when winterizing and one position I use (I use multiple settings) is the 2/4. So I may lower the air pressure to ~25psi as I suspect the water pump's seal could blow out with either water or air over 30psi on the inlet...

In any case, Happy that you have it taken care of.

~CA

[GABob]

Indirectly related to the issue here, but I’m a tad confused by the 30 PSI pump limit when in other threads I see folks speak of water pressure as high as 45 to 60 when they speak of using pressure regulators. I typically blow my lines out for winterizing and use up to 40? Am I mixing apples and oranges in my thoughts here? Or can the lines take in excess of 30 PSI but just not engage the pump?

[norty1]

Normally water under pressure would not be routed under pressure to the input except for a momentary blast when moving to a new valve combination. Until I read the specs on the new pump , I did not know that it could damage the pump.
When winterizing lines in valve position 2 & 4 the pump would be running and pulling whatever liquid was being used to sanitize the lines.

[OnTheGo]

I wouldn't argue with the findings and will try not to make that mistake. That said, it's hard for me to imagine a good seal not being able to take city pressure.

Bottom line: Glad you're back in good working order.

[craigav]

It is not uncommon for a pump to specify a maximum inlet pressure that is much lower than the outlet pressure (a lot lower with some pumps). This is because the inlet side seals are designed with the expectation of very low to negative pressure (suction) on the inlet side of the pump and the seals are designed with that in mind not to suck in air. The harder it pulls (sucks), the tighter the seal seals so to speak.

I remembered that this was true for a long time now, but I never gave it much thought for my RV, although I will keep this in mind for the future whenever using air to blow out the lines when winterizing (at least in the 2/4 position). There is a (should be) a check valve on the top of the pump which makes the pressure of blowing out the other lines (selector settings) less of an issue for a bit higher pressure as that pressure will not get into the pump. In any case, 25 psi should be plenty to blow the lines with a compressor that can maintain a good volume of air.

One other thought from back in my industrial engineering days, I also remember that pumps can be damaged by the impeller spinning with too much air pressure on the inlet with a fully open outlet (or pipe) especially if the rpm's in the pump become higher than what the motor would have provided (also the liquid stabilizes the impeller). This is more of a concern with using air to flush the lines compared to liquids flowing in the line as the flow of any liquid limits how fast the impellers can spin. There are different pump designs so perhaps the issue is not as a concern with an RV water pump vs industrial centrifugal pumps, but something to keep in mind especially if you hear the pump making an unhappy sound while blowing air through it, if so slow the pump down a bit by using less air pressure. FYI, I don't ever remember hearing my pump motor or impeller spin while blowing the lines for winterization, but I never really listened for that either and the air flow by itself makes a noise that certainly could be louder than that of a spinning pump. Just something to keep in mind. ~CA

[Keith955]

On my 2021 Greyhawk 29MVP I had water in the rear most driver's side compartment where the water system management valve handles also reside. My problem was the the two low point water drains. The handles for them were also in that compartment and typical crappy installation and foam barrier was allowing spray from the rear wheels to leak in. I spun the valves around 90° and sealed up the gapping holes Jayco had for the tiny little valve handle stems. I can easily reach them from underneath to open or close and the compartment has stayed dry ever since.

[Rock]

At my camp I use a shallow water pump with tank regulated to 40 psi at river bank. I use it as city water when I run my generator or to fill my water tank. Since I am turning valves several times a day ( already had to replace every valve at dock station) I do this. Since my outside shower hose is at dock station I let it hang outside and bleed off all water pressure before moving any valves. Inlet hose has a shut off valve at dock station also. It was a nightmare replacing all those valves and of course every water connector than leaked at clamps from the movement. No fun seeing water dripping out bottom of FW.