Who’s pulling 5ers with 3/4 ton?

[goducks]

Originally Posted by rnelson1044

I have not. Based on the information provided me from Dodge/Chrysler, the truck is designed to pull a 5th wheel up to 20,000 lbs, total weight.

20,000 lbs and a min 15% pin weight is 3,000 lbs. So Ram's saying just ignore the door sticker that's well under 3,000 lbs and closer to 2100 lbs ?

[Shall36]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_classification

All vehicles fall into classes. Classes are used to determine licensure and emission requirements. States often base registration fees on GVWR and may impose other requirements based on class. Insurance requirements may differ by class and by state.

I don’t know when the classes were established, but it was well before the current era of vehicle design and production and well before the mass consumption of Class 2b and 3 trucks.

Manufactures set GVWR on vehicles partly to fit a certain class. Look at the GVWR on your minivan and it’s probably right at 6k. Hmmm.

GM builds the 2500 on the same chassis as the 3500. With the exception of front sway bar and an overload spring in the rear, the 2500 Diesel is the same as the 3500. They do restrict tire/wheel combinations on the 3500 to ensure adequate capacity for the higher GVWR and the 3500 does not have TPMS ( which is not mandated for Class 3 trucks). Ford has more differences between the 250 and 350 trucks as Ford seems big on building endless configurations. RAM obviously uses the coil spring rear setup on the 2500 while the 3500 uses leaf springs. On Fords (and GM I believe), you can order a Class 3 with 10K GVWR, making it a Class 2b for registration purposes. Same truck, different placard.

Where class 2b trucks can get into trouble are the 20” wheel/tire setups that won’t hold up to Class 3 loads. Also, GM gassers, at least the prior gen truck, use a lighter rear end than the diesel variant and the 3500 gasser.

GM finally got sick and tired of all this nonsense and just bumped up the GVWR on the 2500 trucks. Ford does have a high capacity option for the F250 to bump up GVWR.

The time wasted beating this topic to death and all the internet lawyers talking about how anyone with a Class 2b who tows at 10,001# GVWR being sued into oblivion is amazing.

[BLTravels]

Or we can help our fellow members and travelers, many of whom are new to towing to be safer and wiser and learn not to listen to TV or TT dealers and do their own analysis with the right information.
From the poster: "information provided me from Dodge/Chrysler, the truck is designed to pull a 5th wheel up to 20,000 lbs, total weight." Not sure if he understands from the way that is written that really is "total weight" of BOTH TRUCK AND TRAILER and might think he can pull a 20K fifth wheel.

[goducks]

I owned a 2012 Ram 2500 CTD CC LB 4x4 3.73 gears and the max tow weight was 12,500 lbs.
Towing a NP puts any Ram 2500 CTD over the ratings.
http://www.rambodybuilder.com/2012/d...ammlup2500.pdf

[jetlag]

I ordered a 2021 Ram 2500 a few months ago as we were looking at a TT. Once we started looking she found the 5th wheels at a dealer, and that was the end of the TT shopping. After looking for a few weeks she decided on a Pinnacle. I called the dealer and had him change the order to a 3500 SRW long bed. The long bed gave us quite a bit more payload than the short bed. It is a Laramie, fairly well loaded but I still have just shy of 4000 pounds payload, 3963 to be exact, and that is with a 50Gallon fuel tank. We travel light, will use an Anderson AUH hitch to save weight. With her and I and 2 10 pound puppies onboard I should still have a good 500 pounds capacity left. It will be a heavy tow, and I have contracted with a company suggested by another member here to replace the drum brakes on the Pinnacle to hydraulic. It will make us feel better, as I refuse to do the Dually thing as this truck is my daily driver. After Having said this, I was watching a you tube video, one of the many I have watched to educate myself on this 5th wheel towing, and this couple have a 36FBTL like the one we will be getting next month, full timers as well, and loaded to the hilt. They did 2 videos, part one was him being interviewed on the outside of the unit, tow truck, likes, dislikes and such. Part 2 was the lady of the house doing the same inside. Early on in the interview he was asked about his tow vehicle. I replayed that part 3 times and then called my wife in to make sure my ears did not deceive me. He was pulling with an F-250!! He proceeded to mention some pass in Colorado that they had just come through with no issues. So, go figure!!

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by 67L48

For 2017+ Fords, most 3/4 tons have the Sterling 10.5" rear axle and most 1 tons have the Dana M275 rear axle, but, shhhhh, we don't want to talk about that ... it's just an overload spring!

2017+ Ford f250s with a diesel engine have a different rear end than a SRW f350 diesel (without an optional different rear end)?

Or are you comparing gas engine truck rear ends with diesel rear ends?

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by billcf7

That’s the LEGAL registered weight number. Not the tow weight and not combined weight. Just don’t be in an accident with an injury when lawyers get involved

You are confused. You can register for whatever weight you want, but you can be cited for being over weight of your don't pay for a high enough weight class.

3/4 ton trucks are a marketing ploy to keep heavy duty pickups in the lower weight/ lower registration cost range of 10,000 lbs. But, you can certainly pay more and register at a higher weight if you want.

Just like Ford used to offer the F350 with the 9900 lbs GVWR option. It was just a sticker, but it made it easier to register for the lower weight, saving people registration fees.

[jaydreamin]

I pick up a 21 jayco 30.5 RSOK on thursday which is in the half ton class. I have a 18 ram 2500 short bed mega cab 4x4. The dry weight on the trailer is 9910lbs. I think the curb weight of my truck is right at 7900 lbs. with a max payload of 2020lbs. Am I coming close to maxing out the legal limits of my truck? From the charts I have seen the max trailer weight rating is 15,430.

[RedHorse1]

We pull a 13k# 5th with 3k# on the pin with a ‘13 F350. It tows well but I think at 14k# or a bit more we’d be in dually country. So my guess is by 11k# or so a 3/4T would e at its limit.
My opinion is to use the 5th’s GVWR as the towed weight. 25% of that will be on the pin. Can the rear axle tolerate that weight?
IMHO the only way to determine that is to hit the CAT Scale. The Rear GAWR minus the actual rear axle weight (from the scale) will indicate the max pin weight.
The CAT Scale is your friend.

[jaydreamin]

Sounds like I am over my payload capacity then with that trailer. Might not be picking up the trailer. I assumed my truck was more than capable of handling this 5th wheel. Going to be a fun conversation with the dealer tomorrow.

Add the hitch, myself, wife, 4 year old, dog and whatever else we put in the truck and we are over Im sure.

[Stan&Sharon]

TowCalculator.com

[TxLoser]

Don’t cancel. You’re truck will handle it just fine. Will the math on paper work perfect? No, maybe not. My WAG it about 500 over. Thats 5% over. Nothing. Hook it up, pull it, see how it feels. If it feels good, enjoy camping. Worst case, add some airbags or some other supplement and press on. We are hobbiest pulling campers recreationally. Not commercial drivers. Drive responsibly and enjoy. I will say don’t exceed RGAWR, or CGVR, but you’ll be within those I’d imagine.

Only fear I’d have with that truck is the shorter bed with the mega cab, but I think I saw you working that out in another thread.

[Gunner01]

Pull my 2015 Pinnacle 36REQS with a 2015 Ford F350 Diesel. Truck pulls like an APE.


Gunner

[Old Paratrooper]

I think you mean 25% over. Payload 2020lbs and +-500 over that is 25%.

That said, my son is a Forensic Engineer and certified accident investigator. During my search for a tow vehicle we had many discussions on this topic. As he, as well as many here have said it’s highly unlikely, even after an accident, that an investigator is going to try to establish an over weight condition caused or contributed to an accident. However at some point the over weight condition is so obvious it can’t be ignored. Where is that point, who knows, but It could come back to bite you. (Telling the Trooper everyone else was speeding isn’t getting you out of the ticket)

For me the decision on what to ultimately buy focused on capability of the truck and then increasing safety margins. A SRW F 350 would have marginally kept us within the payload capacity and other weight limits. After much discussion we went DRW for several reasons. With DRW the payload capacity is now an after thought. The additional rear tires provide stability on the road in adverse conditions and redundancy in case of a blowout. And lastly I can sleep well at night knowing that should I have an accident with serious injuries or worse I know the accident was in no way related to my own intentional action of exceeding any weight limitations on the tow vehicle.

I know that one of the most dangerous phrases in the English language is “Watch This”. Because the truck “can” do it doesn’t mean you should. Most of the time everything will be OK, but when things go wrong they can go horribly wrong. Driving entails risk, towing increases that risk level, towing overweight further increases that risk level. Everyone must decide for themselves what level of risk they are willing to accept. As an Airline Captain minimizing risk is ingrained in me so I always look to the least risky option when there are options.

The answers here aren’t easy so everyone needs to educate themselves, evaluate the risk and then decide what works best for themselves.

[NewBlackDak]

Originally Posted by Old Paratrooper

I think you mean 25% over. Payload 2020lbs and +-500 over that is 25%.

That said, my son is a Forensic Engineer and certified accident investigator. During my search for a tow vehicle we had many discussions on this topic. As he, as well as many here have said it’s highly unlikely, even after an accident, that an investigator is going to try to establish an over weight condition caused or contributed to an accident. However at some point the over weight condition is so obvious it can’t be ignored. Where is that point, who knows, but It could come back to bite you. (Telling the Trooper everyone else was speeding isn’t getting you out of the ticket)

For me the decision on what to ultimately buy focused on capability of the truck and then increasing safety margins. A SRW F 350 would have marginally kept us within the payload capacity and other weight limits. After much discussion we went DRW for several reasons. With DRW the payload capacity is now an after thought. The additional rear tires provide stability on the road in adverse conditions and redundancy in case of a blowout. And lastly I can sleep well at night knowing that should I have an accident with serious injuries or worse I know the accident was in no way related to my own intentional action of exceeding any weight limitations on the tow vehicle.

I know that one of the most dangerous phrases in the English language is “Watch This”. Because the truck “can” do it doesn’t mean you should. Most of the time everything will be OK, but when things go wrong they can go horribly wrong. Driving entails risk, towing increases that risk level, towing overweight further increases that risk level. Everyone must decide for themselves what level of risk they are willing to accept. As an Airline Captain minimizing risk is ingrained in me so I always look to the least risky option when there are options.

The answers here aren’t easy so everyone needs to educate themselves, evaluate the risk and then decide what works best for themselves.

There are plenty of people who get themselves in trouble in DRW truck too. They’re overconfident, so they take risks they wouldn’t have before. Eg driving too fast, or in conditions where you should pull over.

[riddleswest]

Originally Posted by Old Paratrooper

I think you mean 25% over. Payload 2020lbs and +-500 over that is 25%.

That said, my son is a Forensic Engineer and certified accident investigator. During my search for a tow vehicle we had many discussions on this topic. As he, as well as many here have said it’s highly unlikely, even after an accident, that an investigator is going to try to establish an over weight condition caused or contributed to an accident. However at some point the over weight condition is so obvious it can’t be ignored. Where is that point, who knows, but It could come back to bite you. (Telling the Trooper everyone else was speeding isn’t getting you out of the ticket)

For me the decision on what to ultimately buy focused on capability of the truck and then increasing safety margins. A SRW F 350 would have marginally kept us within the payload capacity and other weight limits. After much discussion we went DRW for several reasons. With DRW the payload capacity is now an after thought. The additional rear tires provide stability on the road in adverse conditions and redundancy in case of a blowout. And lastly I can sleep well at night knowing that should I have an accident with serious injuries or worse I know the accident was in no way related to my own intentional action of exceeding any weight limitations on the tow vehicle.

I know that one of the most dangerous phrases in the English language is “Watch This”. Because the truck “can” do it doesn’t mean you should. Most of the time everything will be OK, but when things go wrong they can go horribly wrong. Driving entails risk, towing increases that risk level, towing overweight further increases that risk level. Everyone must decide for themselves what level of risk they are willing to accept. As an Airline Captain minimizing risk is ingrained in me so I always look to the least risky option when there are options.

The answers here aren’t easy so everyone needs to educate themselves, evaluate the risk and then decide what works best for themselves.

Perhaps one of the best replies of read in this forum by qualified people!

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by Old Paratrooper

I think you mean 25% over. Payload 2020lbs and +-500 over that is 25%.

That said, my son is a Forensic Engineer and certified accident investigator. During my search for a tow vehicle we had many discussions on this topic. As he, as well as many here have said it’s highly unlikely, even after an accident, that an investigator is going to try to establish an over weight condition caused or contributed to an accident. However at some point the over weight condition is so obvious it can’t be ignored. Where is that point, who knows, but It could come back to bite you. (Telling the Trooper everyone else was speeding isn’t getting you out of the ticket)

For me the decision on what to ultimately buy focused on capability of the truck and then increasing safety margins. A SRW F 350 would have marginally kept us within the payload capacity and other weight limits. After much discussion we went DRW for several reasons. With DRW the payload capacity is now an after thought. The additional rear tires provide stability on the road in adverse conditions and redundancy in case of a blowout. And lastly I can sleep well at night knowing that should I have an accident with serious injuries or worse I know the accident was in no way related to my own intentional action of exceeding any weight limitations on the tow vehicle.

I know that one of the most dangerous phrases in the English language is “Watch This”. Because the truck “can” do it doesn’t mean you should. Most of the time everything will be OK, but when things go wrong they can go horribly wrong. Driving entails risk, towing increases that risk level, towing overweight further increases that risk level. Everyone must decide for themselves what level of risk they are willing to accept. As an Airline Captain minimizing risk is ingrained in me so I always look to the least risky option when there are options.

The answers here aren’t easy so everyone needs to educate themselves, evaluate the risk and then decide what works best for themselves.

OK, what airline?? I retired from 'Merican in 2018 via Piedmont Airlines, Useless air, oops, Us air, and retired from American after the last merger.

[Old Paratrooper]

A division of Atlanta’s hometown airline, Endeavor Air. Flying is a third career for me, military and 25 years in Sales. I was 54 when I started my Airline Career.

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by Old Paratrooper

A division of Atlanta’s hometown airline, Endeavor Air. Flying is a third career for me, military and 25 years in Sales. I was 54 when I started my Airline Career.

Wow, you are a busy pesrson

[2021JayFlight28BHS]

Originally Posted by jetlag

OK, what airline?? I retired from 'Merican in 2018 via Piedmont Airlines, Useless air, oops, Us air, and retired from American after the last merger.

I hear Sprit is hiring….