Why you should give Sailun tires a try

[Dskyward]

Same here, KAR, and what Tom says also. The manufacturer confirmed they'll handle 110 psi, but only 3750 lbs max load. The max load is stamped on the backside of the rim, but inside the well, but not the max psi.

I've a mileage correction from my above post. The Sailuns have only 5,900 miles. Sorry for any confusion. Overall 377 mileage is at 14,762, then on Aug 13, a 1300 mile road trip to WY for the eclipse, and back to IN.

A couple options to think about before this trip; 1) although no one here has reported a Sailun S637 tire failure, I could keep on trucking with less tire friction, as there's less width touching the road, or 2) contact a Sailun tire dealer expert and see if there might be a possible hazard I'm facing, and get a whole new set? At any rate, the tread will eventually wear to the edges and it'll be even then. Thoughts? The DW hates to see our rig in the shop all the time.

Pics below are the set when new back in February. So very pretty. Note the thick rim bead. I couldn't resist to feel the sidewall thickness everyone raved about. Definitely stout.

[jasum]

If you call Tredit Tire and Wheel, they will tell you what your wheels are rated for........

They supply Jayco with tires and wheels.

[PlayersZ28]

I've been running S637's for two winters now. They have about 11-12,000mi on them now. They are on the stock Jayco rims and I run about 100psi cold. Before I put them on these rims Jayco said they'd take 110psi, Treddit said they might be their wheels and would take 85psi, another place (can't recall name) said they looked like theirs and could take 110psi.

I bought my fiver used and only hauled it about 100mi on the China bombs so I can't really comment on chucking (had none in the 100mi, trailer empty) beforehand but I get quite a bit now. Also the trailer rides a lot rougher and things inside take a beating.

I am about 11,500# on the axles. My tires are showing the same outer rib wear as Dskyward.

[kreid]

I called 3 times and got 2 different answers. Some people at treadit are too lazy to dig for the correct answers so they give you the "safe answer"

[Schooner]

Originally Posted by Dskyward

Ok, I finally got the metal valve stem's installed in the factory rims last month at a Walmart in Fort Wayne IN, and have increased the pressure to 105 psi in all four tires just before towing the North Point to Jayco Service center for warranty service. We get it back to Ft Wayne and now has been 4 weeks since and roughly 190 miles and I'm noticing a strange inner and outer edge wear pattern on all the tires.

The tires were at 85 psi for the first few thousand miles and treadwear was consistent and flat on the edges. Now after the pressure increase, it appears the middle tread has ballooned outward showing a 'ramp' on all edges. In other words, the edges no long touch the road. The tires now have approx 15k miles. Anyone else showing this symptom with over 100 psi? Is this normal?

Dskyward - I'm seeing the same wear on my Sailuns. First noticed slight wear on both sides (as you described) on the tires on the forward axle about three months ago. Now after about 2500 additional miles the wear is significantly worse. There is similar but minor wear on the rear axle tires. I probably have close to 13,000 miles on the set. I check the tire pressure every morning before we travel and maintain between 105 - 110 psi. I plan to talk to my tire guy when we get home next week.

Keith

[Dskyward]

Originally Posted by Schooner

Dskyward - I'm seeing the same wear on my Sailuns. First noticed slight wear on both sides (as you described) on the tires on the forward axle about three months ago. Now after about 2500 additional miles the wear is significantly worse. There is similar but minor wear on the rear axle tires. I probably have close to 13,000 miles on the set. I check the tire pressure every morning before we travel and maintain between 105 - 110 psi. I plan to talk to my tire guy when we get home next week.

Keith

Hi Schooner, thanks for chiming in with your Sailun experience. Apparently, something is causing the wear pattern. My trailer axles are about 12,100 lbs. As I've got only 5,900 miles on the set, not 15k as first mentioned, I'm eager to hear what you find out. Please keep us posted. It might be crazy to think that by adding 20 psi and another 190 miles could cause the center treads to expand out, maybe? That's what it appears to the eye. A slow day for me today, 7th day fighting poison ivy on arms n legs have kept me grounded. DW says we'll see a dr tomorrow. I've still yet to contact a Sailun tire expert on this.

[Stingray75]

Dskyward - hope the Poison Ivy has been tamed. Chiming in here as we're getting ready to do our first winter escape and need to replace the original TowMax tires. Any updates on the wear pattern you're seeing?

[Schooner]

Dskyward and Stingray75 - After talking to my tire guy and my OTR Trucker brother, I think I have figured out the wear pattern. The Sailuns have a much stiffer sidewall than the conventional ST tire, which means that the tires don't flex when making sharp turns into and out of tight campsites or even when making sharp turns when driving on city streets. This is accentuated when they are on a 41' 5th wheel. The lack of flex causes the tire edge to drag thereby causing wear, especially on the front axle. The wear appears on both sides of the front axle tires because you make right and left turns getting into and out of different campsites. The tire guy suggested that I rotate the tires (front to back) to even out the wear. I am approaching 15K miles on the tires and they have been great.

[Dskyward]

Thanks Stingray75. Just got back from the second dr. visit as the poison ivy wasn't improving. Got a 2nd shot, 2 more internal meds, plus prescribed benadryl doses a day, so we shall see. Yes, I do have some updates on talking with a Sailun tire rep. Very nice fellow and he gets very detailed.

Also, thanks Schooner for your reply. The dragging is called 'scrub' as described below by the Sailun rep. But somehow, the inner and outer shoulders are the same look on all 4 tires. I really don't see an alignment issue with the evidence I see as the rep suggested. After reading his informative replies below, do you think you'll keep your inflation and rotate, or deflate them as he suggests? I do like the less rolling resistance. I'm thinking about dropping mine back down to 85 psi cold.

We conversed back n forth about 4 times. It's long, but informative. My words are in black, his are in red.

Here's my letter to them on 7/28:
Hi,
I bought a set of 4 of Sailun S637 ST235/85 R16 for my 2017 Jayco Northpoint fifth wheel on February 13, 2017. We currently have 5900 miles on them. About 200 miles ago I had metal valve stems installed and I increased the pressure from 85 to 105 psi. Total weight on the tandem axles is about 12,200 lbs. See attached picture of what looks like the tread face expanding up like a balloon causing the shoulder rib to cove out to the edge and not touch the road anymore. About a half inch from each side doesn't contact the road as you can see road contact line. Each of the four tires have exact same wear symptom.

What should I do? Is this normal, or should I be concerned?

The response on 7/29:
Darin, thank you for being a Sailun customer. I have reviewed the information and photos you provided. Based on the weight of 12,200, each tire is carrying a load of 3,050 lbs. If you reference the attached load and inflation table, you will notice the pressure required to carry a load of 3,050/tire is 60 psi. This is the reason why the face looks like it is "ballooning out". Even more so with the additional pressure you have added. In essence, the three middle ribs of the tire are contacting the road as the tire rolls through the footprint, the shoulder ribs are always trying to "catch up". When I see this condition, it usually results in "cupping" on the shoulder. Your situation looks like a constant scrub. This condition indicates to me there may be an alignment situation with your axles.

Here are some things you might try.

Weigh your trailer when fully loaded with water, clothes, can goods, food, bikes, bedding, propane and, hopefully, beer. It is important the trailer is fully loaded to determine the weight. Divide that weight by 4 to get your loaded per tire weight. Go to the chart attached and find that weight on line 10 of the spreadsheet. I'm guessing it will be either cell J10 or K10. Look to the top of the column to see the minimum air pressure you should use - 60 or 65 psi. I would recommend 5 to 10 pounds of safety. The closer you monitor your air pressure the less safety you have to build in. I recommend checking your air pressure with an accurate gauge before each trip.

As far as the alignment goes, there are a couple of measurements you can make to determine if you may have a problem. Using a tape measure, pick a reference on the front tire/wheel and measure the distance from that point to the same point on the back tire/wheel. Do the same on the other side. The measurement should be the same. If it is, the axles are parallel. This is good, but doesn't tell the whole story. To determine the axles are perpendicular to the frame you have to measure from the pin to a reference point on the tire/wheel. This will be more difficult. There are a couple ways to do this. You can actually measure form the pin or, assuming the trailer is square, you can measure from the front of the trailer to the same point on each tire/wheel on both axles and both sides of the trailer. This measurement should be very close for both sides and both axles.

Hope this helps.

Safe travels.
Al Eagleson 'ACE'
Director, Commercial Truck Products

Here is his chart attachment 'Load and Inflation 23580 23585 ST.xlsx'


Yet another set of questions I sent and rec'd on 7/29:
Summarized questions from paragraphs below:
1)Is it possible for my tire situation to have actually expanded to a larger circumference? Or is it definitely shoulder scrub? There can be slight expansion when inflated, however; the tire is designed this way. The narrower rim and over-inflation are creating the rounded footprint.

1) Would this ‘balloon' effect show on day one, if inflated to 110 psi, unmounted? Or, with 4,400 lbs load and 110 psi? In an all-steel construction, it is difficult to see the balloon effect. It has been there from day 1, but takes some time for the tire wear symptoms to show. The tire is designed for the optimal pressure under the specified load. All the pressure and load data also takes into account the increase in pressure (normally 10-15%) and temperature in normal operating conditions. This is why you should always check cold inflation pressure. Try to avoid adjusting pressure on warm tires.

2) If I continue to leave the pressure at 105 psi, would the eventual middle 3 ribs wear down and meet the shoulder and edge? Or will I still see then what I see now? Unfortunately, this situation will not likely correct itself over time. The center rib wear may catch up somewhat, but the shoulder ribs will continue to show the existing wear. You nailed the diagnosis with your “chalk dirt” analysis below. If you want to check the footprint, you can load your trailer and inflate your tires to 60/65/70 psi then drive onto smooth concrete. Take a piece of paper and try to slip it under the outside shoulder of the tire. If it doesn’t slide in at all, you know your footprint is flat on the road. If it slides under, you can drop the pressure (not below the minimum) until the footprint is flat.

3) would the sidewall see dry rot in 4-5 years before I see 55K miles and have plenty tread depth left? Dry rot or cracking due to ozone exposure is a function of compound/sidewall flex and exposure to the sun. Michelin tires do tend to crack more rapidly. I suspect this is due to a combination of sidewall flex and compound. This is consistent in commercial truck tires I have examined and documented this for many years - used as a competitive advantage. We have not received any negative feedback on sidewall cracking on the Sailun S637. I cannot tell you an age when this may occur because of all the factors, but I feel this will be beyond the 5-year mark. Sitting idle increases the potential for sidewall cracking (Arizona would be worse than Seattle). Based on the miles you travel; your tires have a lower risk of cracking. If possible, keep your tires protected (tire covers or plywood) from direct sunlight.

4) let's assume correct axle alignment, running 10-30 psi over inflation, normal to sharp left and right turn maneurving on asphalt or gravel, all tires get severly torqued, and the inner/outer shoulder ribs skids on the ground, can produce this cupped or cove wear? When you consider the distance traveled maneuvering your trailer under severe scrub situations versus the distance in a straight line, the scrub effect is minimal - merely a blip in the tires timeline of life. If the footprint is flat when scrubbing, the wear is spread over all ribs equally. You see the shoulder ribs so it appears they are taking the brunt of the scrub. If the tires are “ballooned”, the shoulder will be more likely to cup or cove because they are not flat on the surface and “skip” along not scrubbing evenly with the rest of the ribs.

5) So, 75 psi max pressure is the best what I should be running on 110 psi max tires? From an engineering standpoint, the tire is designed to operate at a range of pressures to carry the designated load. Under normal operating conditions, there should be a slight bulge in the sidewall as the tire rotates through its footprint. This may scare some people, but it is designed and normal. You indicated you use a TPMS; this is a good thing. Your pressures should be consistent and if there is an issue, you will be alerted. Don’t let this create a false sense of security; you still should check pressures with an accurate gauge. Trust the load/inflation chart and use the paper test I mentioned above. A note about the load inflation chart. This is the standard established by the Tire and Rim Association. All tire manufacturers must adhere and meet this as a minimum standard.

Also on 7/29:
Darin, thank you for your kind words. The other factor I forgot to mention was your rim width. The recommended width for the Sailun S637 is 6.5". If your rim width is narrower, it will make the issue worse. Also, check the maximum pressure in your rim. It could be 80 or 110 psi. These are the two most common ratings.

One comment about other manufacturer's ST tires. They sometimes get a bad rap. The critical factors are load and speed. A lot of these are nylon/steel construction. The trailer manufacturers tend to spec tires that are close to the load limit for the unloaded trailer (a cost driven decision). The other issue is that most of these tires have a speed rating of 55-60 mph. So, when you add payload and excessive speeds, it is a recipe for catastrophe.

The S637 is an all steel construction with a higher load capacity and a speed rating of 75 mph. This is the reason why they are recommended by the forums. We have very few issues with them.

You are welcome to use this and the previous information I provided in any post.

Best regards.

Al Eagleson

My reply:
Hmm, 6.5” min width? I went to the Tredittire.com page and my pattern wheel shows size is 16x6, bolt pattern 8-6.5, 0 offset, load capacity 3750 – 85 psi on the chart I sent - (and is stamped on backside of rim), but rated for 110 psi, according to a ph call to the manufacturer. The rim width is recommended at 6.5”, not 6.5” minimum. This is optimal. You can use 6.0” or 7.0” as an alternative. The narrower rim pulls the beads together and potentially creates a more rounded footprint (ballooning) in the tread area of the tire. Higher than recommended air pressure will magnify this.

[Bookemdanno]

Very good info. Darin! I've been running at 110 psi since my install. Apparently I need to get to a CAT scale and see where I'm at and consider lowering the PSI. GREAT post!

[Dskyward]

Thanks Dan. Sorry for the length, but the arena of tire knowledge goes a long way.

If the CAT scale here in town is open on Sundays, when we leave on the Sun 13th, I'll have everything weighed again. One of these days, I would like to get individual tire weights, but Escapees Club only has 3 locations in southern US. Livingston TX, Bushnell, FL, and Congress, AZ. Cost is $55 for both TV and trailer.

[PlayersZ28]

All 4 of my tires look like the one pictured with the curved slope in the outer rib. I don't think it's an alignment issue as then I would expect differences in the 4 and I checked my toe on the axles and it looked ok and the same on both axles. I also don't think it is from parking the trailer as I don't have that many tight turns when I travel in relation to the miles on the tires.

I initially thought the wear was from underinflation as that would put more vertical load onto the sidewalls but running 100# vs 110# wouldn't do that. I'll see if I can get tire wear pics from non-Jayco people with S637's.

[Schooner]

Snip from Dskyward - "Also, thanks Schooner for your reply. The dragging is called 'scrub' as described below by the Sailun rep. But somehow, the inner and outer shoulders are the same look on all 4 tires. I really don't see an alignment issue with the evidence I see as the rep suggested. After reading his informative replies below, do you think you'll keep your inflation and rotate, or deflate them as he suggests? I do like the less rolling resistance. I'm thinking about dropping mine back down to 85 psi cold."

Thanks for contacting the Sailun Rep - great info. I guess my logic regarding the "scrub" was flawed. I also don't understand the Reps suggestion that it may be an alignment issue if both tires are wearing evenly on each side. I've had alignment issues on a previous 5er and it looked nothing like this. It is also not "cupping". I don't understand that if it is a "balooning" effect due to over pressuring the tires why my front axle tires have significant wear and my rear axle tires have almost no wear. I also have a TPMS and run all 4 tires within 2 psi of each other. I'm even a little lighter than you but occasionally fill the FW tank before camping at State Parks. But one shouldn't argue with the experts and their tire pressure chart so I too will lower the pressure to 85 psi and watch the tires for continued wear. I will probably rotate the tires front to back next time I'm in the tire shop for a bearing repack. Thanks again Dskyward for the great info.

[Dskyward]

Originally Posted by Schooner

Snip from Dskyward - "Also, thanks Schooner for your reply. The dragging is called 'scrub' as described below by the Sailun rep. But somehow, the inner and outer shoulders are the same look on all 4 tires. I really don't see an alignment issue with the evidence I see as the rep suggested. After reading his informative replies below, do you think you'll keep your inflation and rotate, or deflate them as he suggests? I do like the less rolling resistance. I'm thinking about dropping mine back down to 85 psi cold."

Thanks for contacting the Sailun Rep - great info. I guess my logic regarding the "scrub" was flawed. I also don't understand the Reps suggestion that it may be an alignment issue if both tires are wearing evenly on each side. I've had alignment issues on a previous 5er and it looked nothing like this. It is also not "cupping". I don't understand that if it is a "balooning" effect due to over pressuring the tires why my front axle tires have significant wear and my rear axle tires have almost no wear. I also have a TPMS and run all 4 tires within 2 psi of each other. I'm even a little lighter than you but occasionally fill the FW tank before camping at State Parks. But one shouldn't argue with the experts and their tire pressure chart so I too will lower the pressure to 85 psi and watch the tires for continued wear. I will probably rotate the tires front to back next time I'm in the tire shop for a bearing repack. Thanks again Dskyward for the great info.

Thanks Schooner. Also it would be important that the trailer is riding level. Not nose high or low. I attached those cheap bubble levelers above my forward and aft cargo doors and near the GC leveling box. My B&W Companion Slider hitch saddle arms is now back in the middle height bolt holes, all 3 selections are 1" apart. as the reason being the fiver chin contacted the pickup rails on a sloped down left turn into Mineral Wells SP in Texas, last May. I backed it up the slope and did a turnaround to the park exit, pulled off, detached, raised the saddle 1" and that did the trick. I'm guessing now I may be 3/4-1" high up front (using air bags). Raising it up an inch will also increase my air drag. I've no idea how much, though? I really need to check my true height on the master roof A/C. I've always referred to the factory brochure, and for the 377, it's 13'3" with no master a/c, 13'4" with. So everyone must watch out for their height. Last year, we went under a RR trestle steel bridge in MO that was posted 13'6", thinking I was safe and at 13'3" according to brochure. It's 1" higher with a/c up front. Whew!

[Bookemdanno]

Originally Posted by Dskyward

Thanks Schooner. Also it would be important that the trailer is riding level. Not nose high or low. I attached those cheap bubble levelers above my forward and aft cargo doors and near the GC leveling box. My B&W Companion Slider hitch saddle arms is now back in the middle height bolt holes, all 3 selections are 1" apart. as the reason being the fiver chin contacted the pickup rails on a sloped down left turn into Mineral Wells SP in Texas, last May. I backed it up the slope and did a turnaround to the park exit, pulled off, detached, raised the saddle 1" and that did the trick. I'm guessing now I may be 3/4-1" high up front (using air bags). Raising it up an inch will also increase my air drag. I've no idea how much, though? I really need to check my true height on the master roof A/C. I've always referred to the factory brochure, and for the 377, it's 13'3" with no master a/c, 13'4" with. So everyone must watch out for their height. Last year, we went under a RR trestle steel bridge in MO that was posted 13'6", thinking I was safe and at 13'3" according to brochure. It's 1" higher with a/c up front. Whew!

I measured mine from the roof while hooked up (I have the front a/c). I'm sitting at 13' 5 1/4" with my Ram 3500 dually with factory air. Lowest bridge I've attempted was in Fort Worth @ 13' 7". Even tho I had measured, I still puckered while going under! That measurement is also with the Saliun tires and a B&W slider.


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[Dskyward]

Originally Posted by Bookemdanno

I measured mine from the roof while hooked up (I have the front a/c). I'm sitting at 13' 5 1/4" with my Ram 3500 dually with factory air. Lowest bridge I've attempted was in Fort Worth @ 13' 7". Even tho I had measured, I still puckered while going under! That measurement is also with the Saliun tires and a B&W slider.


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That's kinda significant, I would think. How are you measuring the top of the master a/c? Side note- I see in your signature 377BHRL. Should be 377RLBH. Is your trailer riding perfectly level when taking this measurement? I forgot to mention my 07.5 Dodge 3500 dually is a 4x2. Is yours 4x4? The difference is about 3" bed height.

[Bookemdanno]

Mine is 4x4, but with he factory air bags, all you do is hit a button and the truck will level with the trailer attached. Here's how I took my measurement: I hooked up and hit the level button on the truck, as this will be how we travel down the road. I measured from the highest part of the roof to the ground (I don't remember what that measurement was, as all I was interested in was the total). Then I measured the a/c unit's height and added the two together. Then I went to my label maker and printed the height and stuck it on my front windshield so I don't forget it.


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[Magnolia Tom]

Great info Darin! Thanks for posting. Looks like I could drop my pressure to 100 psi and still be ok. Funny thing that your rig is 12,200. Mine came from factory 13,607 empty. I haven't scaled it but I'm sure I'm at least 14,500 now with all the gear, extra battery, extra propane tank, etc.


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[PlayersZ28]

Originally Posted by Magnolia Tom

Great info Darin! Thanks for posting. Looks like I could drop my pressure to 100 psi and still be ok. Funny thing that your rig is 12,200. Mine came from factory 13,607 empty. I haven't scaled it but I'm sure I'm at least 14,500 now with all the gear, extra battery, extra propane tank, etc.


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Are those the axle weight numbers? Mine is 15k GWVR and total when loaded is pretty close but my axles were carrying 11620# last time I scaled.

[Magnolia Tom]

Originally Posted by PlayersZ28

Are those the axle weight numbers? Mine is 15k GWVR and total when loaded is pretty close but my axles were carrying 11620# last time I scaled.

I have not scaled my rig so I have no idea what my axle weight numbers are. My yellow sticker states my rig weighs 13607 and I've added at least 800-900 pounds of stuff to it


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