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Old 10-26-2020, 03:26 PM   #1
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2017 Seneca 37TS Levelers and steps

Had a very frustrating 5 days of camping with multiple occasions of steps and equalizer levelers not working. At no time was the 50amp breaker thrown. Usually after a period of time everything would magically work. Did not want to try and troubleshoot while camping but now at home and need to find out what is happening. Before I do a lot of unnecessary work, what are the odds that the problem is bad connections on my house batteries??

Next another thread about my frustrations with my furnace.
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Old 10-26-2020, 03:31 PM   #2
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I would probably start by checking the grounds to see if they are clean and secure.
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:07 PM   #3
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When you had leveler system issues was the entire panel "dead"? On my 2014 my leveler panel receives its power from a 7.5 amp blade fuse that is incorporated into my coach battery solenoid. Its power source are the coach (house) batteries. But the steps are fed power through a 20-amp circuit breaker next to my coach battery solenoid and fed from the chassis batteries. So the two systems are fed from different power sources. I recently read about another Seneca owner finding the power connection for their steps at that 20-amp circuit breaker loose on the breaker stud itself. You might check that, it may be part of your issue.

I have attached a diagram showing my battery area wiring, maybe it will help with your troubleshooting. I also included a picture of my coach battery solenoid where you can see the 7.5 amp fuse that feeds the leveler panel.

Just this past weekend I overhauled much of that wiring, Jayco's crimps were corroding and causing issues with my generator auto-start system. Also their cheap inline glass fuses in that area were causing resistance and low voltage issues in my EC-30 generator panel. So I eliminated those inline fuses and installed a marine fuse panel. So poor connections in that area are not unheard of, I've experienced them myself.
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20191021_075301.jpg   Revised battery area wiring.jpg  
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:58 PM   #4
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OK you have to understand that my electrical knowledge/ability will fit on a postage stamp. In the house battery department I found a group(5) of ground wires(stranded) clamped in a single ground clamp that looks like it is designed for a single solid wire. wiggled the wires around and they don't seem to be very secure. what would be the the best way to separate these grounds. also, I have no idea what the grounds are attached to on the other end.
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:40 PM   #5
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OK you have to understand that my electrical knowledge/ability will fit on a postage stamp. In the house battery department I found a group(5) of ground wires(stranded) clamped in a single ground clamp that looks like it is designed for a single solid wire. wiggled the wires around and they don't seem to be very secure. what would be the the best way to separate these grounds. also, I have no idea what the grounds are attached to on the other end.
Can you take a couple of pictures of the area and wires? We might be able to better tailor some advice if we see what you have.
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:53 PM   #6
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will take in the the am but it is just to the right and up from your first pic
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:05 PM   #7
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I lost ground one time and it was because of those crappy lugs they use and a screw broke. This was on the rear of my coach but they do this all over the coach. What I did on the rear was us a Blue Sea bus bar and mounted and grounded it and then used crimp on shrink type connectors and attached them to the bus bar. Since you only have 5 wires, you couple just take them out of the lug and crimp on ring terminals and use a good self tapper screw to attach each with to the metal frame. I recently spotted another spot behind the steps that I need to redo with a short bus bar.
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:33 PM   #8
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will take in the the am but it is just to the right and up from your first pic
In my first picture to the right was my (original) Battery Isolation Manager (BIM) which I had to replace as part of my recent project. It has 2 battery cable connections and then 4 smaller wire (18ga) connections. It looked like the picture attached below. Let us know if that is the area/component involved.

Above my BIM is where one of the other battery positive cables connects to a large fuse (300 amp) fuse that then goes to the leveling system.

Another area you might check are the small circuit breakers on top of the chassis batteries (under the cab). There are several there and I found some of the connections there were loose. To check/tighten them I would strongly recommend you remove the negative battery connections before you stick any tools in there! An accidental arc there could be dangerous.
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Old 10-28-2020, 07:15 AM   #9
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attached is a pic of the ground wires in my battery compartment just above the battery isolation manager.
are all the ground wires installed by Jayco white? so far I have not been able to find the ground wires for the steps or the levellers but will look again today if this 75 yr old body is willing
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Old 10-28-2020, 10:52 AM   #10
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Decided to look at the chassis battery area this am. After disconnecting the 2 ground cables I started poking around and found that one of the + terminal battery post nut was only held on by 2 threads and the cable would move all over the place. Also on top of the battery hold down one of the fuse blocks or whatever it is was loose but I doubt this is part of my problem.
Question, why when I put the ground cables back on the battery post I got a small spark?
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:36 AM   #11
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Decided to look at the chassis battery area this am. After disconnecting the 2 ground cables I started poking around and found that one of the + terminal battery post nut was only held on by 2 threads and the cable would move all over the place. Also on top of the battery hold down one of the fuse blocks or whatever it is was loose but I doubt this is part of my problem.
Question, why when I put the ground cables back on the battery post I got a small spark?
There are draws that are continuous even with the coach battery switch and the chassis ignition off. Unless it is a huge arc I don't think it's a problem.

That loose cable certainly could be part of your problem, my Bigfoot levelers have a dedicated battery positive cable. I suspect you have the Equalizer levelers system, but I bet it has a cable of its own also.

If those grounds you pictured before are loose at all it needs addressed, perhaps as Brian suggested with a new bus bar that would let you secure each one individually. I too have had problems when numbers of wires are jammed into one large clamp. Maybe the jarring of driving eventually causes them to loosen giving us issues. I think the strands eventually "settle" under compression.

And regarding the grounds for your steps mine are near the steps themselves but my batteries are on the other side of my rig. Jayco grounded components near the item, at least on my 2014. And if you have the single Equalizer pump/manifold (versus my 4 separate pumps) I would guess it is grounded to the frame close to that pump.

While we're on the subject, if you have the Equalizer system have you inspected the mounting to the frame? Some were constructed very poorly from what I understand. Some have broken off and been found dangling by the lines and wires.
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:20 PM   #12
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Robby
Thanks for the reply. My equalizer system is suppose to have a dedicated 12V feed but I don't know which one of the mess at the batteries it is.
The spark was very little, just surprised me.
As far as the grounds. I think I will go with a busbar bit I will have to put it in a new location as I do not have easy access to where the grounds are now(battery tray assemble in the way)
I did look at the mounting of my equalizer pump. It is fairly stable but I think I need to add a brace. Not a welder so I will have to devise a bolt together brace.
Your latest wiring upgrade looks great. is that in your battery compartment??
You must be some kind of contortionist.
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Old 10-28-2020, 03:32 PM   #13
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On my 2015 37ts Jayco used 20amp circuit breakers for the power seats and the step. The circuit breakers are mounted on a metal bracket that is spot welded atop the battery hold down bracket for the engine batteries (located under the drivers seat). The 3/8ths nuts would loosen on the circuit breaker studs and cause intermittent ops of the power seats and step. I rebuilt and relocated the entire electrical distribution circuits for those accessories.
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Old 10-28-2020, 05:00 PM   #14
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Your latest wiring upgrade looks great. is that in your battery compartment??
You must be some kind of contortionist.
Yes, that is my battery compartment. I couldn't take Jayco's poor wiring job anymore so I organized, added the fuse block, and re-did all the connections. Previously I would also have to be very careful moving the tray in or out, it would snag on the wires. Now it doesn't!

To make it easier to access the area I removed my battery tray. Four bolts in each side holding the tray to the drawer slides, then the tray comes out. Hardest part is removing and reinstalling my (heavy) 6-volt batteries!
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Old 11-05-2020, 11:35 AM   #15
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What was the ultimate cause for this problem. I am having a similar issue on my 2018 Seneca. Intermittent Errors on Leveling system with Low Voltage Errors, Steps intermittent not opening, Power cable reel same issue. All battery connections clean and tight, house batteries new and fully charged. Fuses checked, checked frame grounds near pump, steps and reel, nothing is loose. Really scratching my head on this one.
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Old 11-05-2020, 12:01 PM   #16
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What was the ultimate cause for this problem. I am having a similar issue on my 2018 Seneca. Intermittent Errors on Leveling system with Low Voltage Errors, Steps intermittent not opening, Power cable reel same issue. All battery connections clean and tight, house batteries new and fully charged. Fuses checked, checked frame grounds near pump, steps and reel, nothing is loose. Really scratching my head on this one.
Not sure on 2018 model, on my 2020 everything you described have something in common. All come off chassis battery.
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Old 11-05-2020, 12:31 PM   #17
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What was the ultimate cause for this problem. I am having a similar issue on my 2018 Seneca. Intermittent Errors on Leveling system with Low Voltage Errors, Steps intermittent not opening, Power cable reel same issue. All battery connections clean and tight, house batteries new and fully charged. Fuses checked, checked frame grounds near pump, steps and reel, nothing is loose. Really scratching my head on this one.
Right now I have to assume my problem was related to the loose + chassis battery connection. Since I tightened the connections, I have not had anymore problems..Have my fingers crossed
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Old 11-05-2020, 04:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by SanTanSeneca View Post
What was the ultimate cause for this problem. I am having a similar issue on my 2018 Seneca. Intermittent Errors on Leveling system with Low Voltage Errors, Steps intermittent not opening, Power cable reel same issue. All battery connections clean and tight, house batteries new and fully charged. Fuses checked, checked frame grounds near pump, steps and reel, nothing is loose. Really scratching my head on this one.
My steps and cord reel are fed from a stud-style circuit breaker mounted between my house battery solenoid and my Battery Isolation Manager in my battery compartment. Every one of the nuts were loose, must be our wonderful roads shaking things loose.
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Old 11-06-2020, 01:09 PM   #19
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Just this past weekend I overhauled much of that wiring, Jayco's crimps were corroding and causing issues with my generator auto-start system. Also their cheap inline glass fuses in that area were causing resistance and low voltage issues in my EC-30 generator panel. So I eliminated those inline fuses and installed a marine fuse panel. So poor connections in that area are not unheard of, I've experienced them myself.
Good work! I don't like the fact that Jayco placed all these electrical items in with the batteries that are off-gassing acidic fumes all the time. I know that compartment is largely open and should be well ventilated, but those gasses are definitely taking their toll: our Seneca has the drive shaft for the slide out in that compartment and it is completely rusted over; the shaft in the compartments aft of the batteries has little to no rust.
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Old 11-07-2020, 02:24 PM   #20
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Similar Issue

Good day! I have a 2018 Seneca 37TS. The equalizer system was replaced by Jayco earlier in the year due to the pump leaking hydraulic fluid.

The new system was installed and after a month or so the pump started leaking again.

*Jayco is sending a whole new pump assembly but due to COVID it make take a month or so to arrive.

The morning we were heading back from our weekend trip is when all hell broke loose.

1) Started the coach to air the bags up

2) Powered the Equalizer Systems and hit All Retract and the jacks started to retract and stopped and a cloud of smoke came from under the coach. After investigating the smoke, I noticed it came from a black box attached to the side of the pump.

3) The Equalizer key pad was making all kinds of noise, all the lights were flashing and the jacks were still deployed.

4) Shut the coach off, waited about 5 minutes and we were able to get the jacks stowed.

5) Problem is now that anytime you start the coach it mutes the radio, cuts the power to the steps, and power to the cord reel. After five minutes with the ignition off something resets and the radio unmutes, power is restored to the steps and cord reel.

*Contacted Jayco and told them what was happening and they have ordered the equalizer brain and a new module for the steps. Also, they told me it could be the relays have gone bad and they are located under the wardrobe. Jayco is also sending me the two relays.

6) I removed both relays and still had power to the above said devices. With the relays removed, I turned the ignition on and again radio mutes, no power to the steps or cord reel. Again after five minutes with the ignition off something resets and the radio unmutes, power is restored to the steps and cord reel.

All of the above happened the morning when I seen the smoke come from underneath the coach.....

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
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