2018 Seneca - more power needed

[MD3]

Found a programmer in development but it's not available for sale yet.
Maybe this will be an option soon.

I emailed TS Performance and they have a programmer that will plug into the newer Cummins 6.7ISB but they have not done testing on it yet...

Unfortunately, they are in Kentucky and I am in CA... so they probably wont take me up on my offer to help them test it.

https://www.shoptsperformance.com/


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[Rustynuts]

Just remember that the Allison 2500 is only rated up to 340hp and reprogramming the Cummins for more HP might cause transmission issues...

[MD3]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

Just remember that the Allison 2500 is only rated up to 340hp and reprogramming the Cummins for more HP might cause transmission issues...

Good info to keep in mind.

I have also seen most rated numbers in the automotive industry are usually below what can be handled. I've never seen listed/rated numbers at the upper limits of what anything can handle. They always have a cushion on those rated numbers..... now what that cushion is would be the big question.


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[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

Just remember that the Allison 2500 is only rated up to 340hp and reprogramming the Cummins for more HP might cause transmission issues...

To be brutally honest... I have been hoping that someone from Jayco or Freightliner or even Alison would have provided more than a hint and a guess about how to make the later year ISB / Alison configuration "AT LEAST EQUAL" to what our 2015 has programmed. I can't think of what Jayco / Freightliner (or the company that ordered/purchased/prepped/delivered the chassis to Jayco) was thinking to make a change that destroyed the performance from what we have.

Yes, Jayco now has the new 2019 units on the FCC(Freightliner custom chassis) chassis and it has the 3000 trans with a different ECM program on the same ISB motor. But they are no longer selling the '17' or "18" models without the overdrive switch that us older owners "have/love/adore" nowdays.

The FCC ISB motor is still the same (I had a long conversation about this at Cummins Sales and Service in January while having my Gen-set serviced) with only a different ECM program to match up with the different transmission. ** And Yes, you don't want to change the ECM to provide more than the 2500 trans can handle ** But why torture all of the 17/18 owners with a TCM(Transmission control module) program that sucks as bad as I keep reading???

My ask is.... _ couldn't they just give the right information to restore the performance? Even if it is at the owners own expense? I can understand that Jayco was cutting corners, eliminating the additional expense of the multi-mode switch and ECM/TCM configuration (AKA the overdrive lockout switch) I know that these units are still under the Freightliner warranty too... but REALLY? There are a million options for a medium duty truck today... these performance changes are not costing anyone to develop any longer (we have them on ours)... the BIG deal is for them to openly share them across the owners.

[SloPoke]

oh... and I must clarify my previous post to say... I went to Freightliner to have them add a "Factory Option" that includes a switch in the dash (simliar work effort as putting the overdrive lockout switch in the dash) and re-program the chassis computer to enable the switch to actuate one of the control modules on the chassis... .

They quoted me $1,800 in labor alone to make this change. I thought that was absurd and decided to do it myself... - but the fact that a switch in the dash and the re-programming was not just a few hundred dollars. Jayco may have decided to save the "Two-Grand" and put that on the profit margin on the 17/18 years... Not knowing how it would really suck after they did... Think about it... Why did they go to the SRV2 at the half year? was it because the performance had so many complaints.

I dont know that answer... but if I could help those who don't have the same performance as OUR unit when it comes to climbing hills... What can we do to help?

[McGintys924]

I have no complaints about power since I received the program from Matt at Allison(first “reprogram” was worse), but didn’t we dig into this and discuss that the OD lockout switch simply activated “wire 167?” Seams very simple to cost $1,800. However, we see the Seneca loosing options since being purchased by Thor: lost painted-to-match slidewalls in 2018 (was told that was a $2000 savings), now loosing larger rear AC and heat pump in 2019. We will see what 2020 model year brings next month.

[RyRoRyan]

To be honest, after I got my trans programmed to performance mode instead of eco mode, I barely use the OD switch on mine anymore when climbing. It does most of that work for me now. However, I will say that it is handy when going down a mountain. If you want to go downhill at around 55, I just flip the exhaust brake and od on. It shifts into 4th, goes to 2500 RPM, exhaust brake spools up and down the hill we go, rarely tapping the brakes.

[johnboy]

Originally Posted by McGintys924

I have no complaints about power since I received the program from Matt at Allison(first “reprogram” was worse), but didn’t we dig into this and discuss that the OD lockout switch simply activated “wire 167?” Seams very simple to cost $1,800. However, we see the Seneca loosing options since being purchased by Thor: lost painted-to-match slidewalls in 2018 (was told that was a $2000 savings), now loosing larger rear AC and heat pump in 2019. We will see what 2020 model year brings next month.

I did the same reprogramming that Matt sent to Transwest where it was performed. I now have no complaints about the power.

[MD3]

To those with no complaints on power....
Are you climbing hills towing an enclosed trailer loaded ?

This is where my complaint is. I have no complaints anywhere else on the flat or not towing.

I’m towing an enclosed trailer with a Jeep in it. HUGE difference in weight vs no tow or a flat tow setup. I haven’t weighed but I’m guessing my loaded trailer is around 9k loaded. I need to go weigh it just to see exactly what it weighs.

My old 2007 class A with 300 hp out performed this 2018 Seneca in the hills towing.

I’m ready to pull the trigger on something to help with towing while being loaded down. One thing I like about the TS Performance programmers is they have an adjuatable knob. Turn up the power in the hills where it’s needed and then turn it back down when you don’t need it. It’s not a premananet change that effects it all the time.

I like our Seneca but the performance towing in the hills needs some help.
Our last trip I was pulling the Cajon pass in CA as a rolling road block at 40-45mph. It was sad sight for such a beautiful RV.


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[Rustynuts]

I don’t know how much difference the new chassis with 360hp and the Allison 3000 in performance mode makes but fully loaded headed to Fallon NV from Oregon the trailer was at 10k with sandrail, SxS, fuel, tools and support parts. Went over serveral passes 6-8% grade and on the Siskiyou pass which is 6 miles long at 6% I was cruising up it at 50mph and I am completely happy with that over our old Class A with a 8.1 Vortex.

[McGintys924]

The worst I have done is a 4000 lb car on a U-Haul car carrier (figure those things are heavy). This was my unfortunate setup before deciding on a vehicle to purchase as a toad. Interestingly, I had this set up as I went through the mountains of Ashville, NC before the reprogram (left Charlotte area to go to Illinois and did reprogram in Knoxville) and immediately after the reprogram (with the special program) and did notice a significant difference.

Did this setup through western Pennsylvania as well with no problems. I do appreciate that I am driving a truck that does have a smaller and less tuned engine than some rivals; some rivals cost $100k more.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by MD3

To those with no complaints on power....
Are you climbing hills towing an enclosed trailer loaded ?

This is where my complaint is. I have no complaints anywhere else on the flat or not towing.

I’m towing an enclosed trailer with a Jeep in it. HUGE difference in weight vs no tow or a flat tow setup. I haven’t weighed but I’m guessing my loaded trailer is around 9k loaded. I need to go weigh it just to see exactly what it weighs.

My old 2007 class A with 300 hp out performed this 2018 Seneca in the hills towing.

I’m ready to pull the trigger on something to help with towing while being loaded down. One thing I like about the TS Performance programmers is they have an adjuatable knob. Turn up the power in the hills where it’s needed and then turn it back down when you don’t need it. It’s not a premananet change that effects it all the time.

I like our Seneca but the performance towing in the hills needs some help.
Our last trip I was pulling the Cajon pass in CA as a rolling road block at 40-45mph. It was sad sight for such a beautiful RV.


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Hey... I would be more than willing to talk to you over the phone on this... I really understand what you are driving - because I lived in Anaheim, Garden Grove, Westminster for 40 years before moving to Salt Lake City - and we had a 5-Acre cabin in Apple Valley that I have spent a lot of time at. I worked for Lucky Store and Albertsons and have drove over every mile of highway getting to more than 80% of these stores. I also commuted once a week to Vegas from Westminster, so I know the Cajon pass - and it is still only 6% and the summit is only 2700Ft.

Granted, I really don't want to drive the Cajon again - the traffic was one of the primary reasons we moved from there. (DW Stacy moved away before I did, we met in Utah) but might be in the coming weeks for a Funeral for my best buddy that we went to High School together (Western High)

What I know of the Cajon - is probably 250 trips over Oak Hills, Yea the Outpost is gone and a lot of others along the route in the last fire - but it is not any more difficult than Parleys Canyon at 7,120 FT and 6%.

I'm attaching a couple of scale tickets we have taken, while going over Parleys - so we might be maybe 1.5k lighter on the trailer, we are at the limit of our GCVR... I don't think that we are that far apart on total weight! and I am at much higher elevation (which is a disadvantage to us and our performance. )

I will PM you my phone number... Don't hesitate to call if you can.

Steve

[outlawten5]

I am dis-appointed in this thread. Or with the Seneca in general. I am still shopping and thought the Seneca would be my best choice. They seem to get the best reviews and you don't find many used ones for sale. Towing a 24' trailer with race car, tools, equipment, fuel etc... Figured I would be under the 10k maximum. Do they have higher HP options for the engines? I figured the Super C's would be a great choice for towing my rig. I assumed they could cruise at 70mph all day.

[RyRoRyan]

Jayco does not offer the higher HP motor in the frieghtliner chassis. If you want power, you will need to look at the Renegade Verona LE or Dynamax Force HD. You can get the L9 or ISL 8.9L on those.

[RVermont]

Originally Posted by outlawten5

I am dis-appointed in this thread. Or with the Seneca in general. I am still shopping and thought the Seneca would be my best choice. They seem to get the best reviews and you don't find many used ones for sale. Towing a 24' trailer with race car, tools, equipment, fuel etc... Figured I would be under the 10k maximum. Do they have higher HP options for the engines? I figured the Super C's would be a great choice for towing my rig. I assumed they could cruise at 70mph all day.

There are two configurations, pre 2018.5 with 340 hp and allison 2500mh transmission and newer 360 hp and 3000 allison mh.

The Seneca is a great super c for the majority of people, the 2018.5 units built on the Freightliner custom chassis an additional 20 hp and more importantly the fully electronic allison 3000 mh transmission, I have not noticed anyone with the new platform complain about power, the main objection those of us with earlier models have is that the units came from the factory set to economy not performance mode. The new platform also provide 5,000 additional lbs of overall load capacity. Specific needs for higher power and high speed travel will require looking at nexus, renegade, haulmark etc. My neighbor has a haulmark with 35,000 + lbs towing capacity and flat floor between cab and living space. it is significantly 2.5X$ more than the seneca but there are Super c's out there that will meet your need for either speed or power.

Good luck on your search.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by outlawten5

I am dis-appointed in this thread. Or with the Seneca in general. I am still shopping and thought the Seneca would be my best choice. They seem to get the best reviews and you don't find many used ones for sale. Towing a 24' trailer with race car, tools, equipment, fuel etc... Figured I would be under the 10k maximum. Do they have higher HP options for the engines? I figured the Super C's would be a great choice for towing my rig. I assumed they could cruise at 70mph all day.

Originally Posted by RyRoRyan

Jayco does not offer the higher HP motor in the frieghtliner chassis. If you want power, you will need to look at the Renegade Verona LE or Dynamax Force HD. You can get the L9 or ISL 8.9L on those.

Originally Posted by RVermont

There are two configurations, pre 2018.5 with 340 hp and allison 2500mh transmission and newer 360 hp and 3000 allison mh.

The Seneca is a great super c for the majority of people, the 2018.5 units built on the Freightliner custom chassis an additional 20 hp and more importantly the fully electronic allison 3000 mh transmission, I have not noticed anyone with the new platform complain about power, the main objection those of us with earlier models have is that the units came from the factory set to economy not performance mode. The new platform also provide 5,000 additional lbs of overall load capacity. Specific needs for higher power and high speed travel will require looking at nexus, renegade, haulmark etc. My neighbor has a haulmark with 35,000 + lbs towing capacity and flat floor between cab and living space. it is significantly 2.5X$ more than the seneca but there are Super c's out there that will meet your need for either speed or power.

Good luck on your search.

We have a good number of friends who are in the WeRock, Ultra-4 and Rock-racing circuit... sometimes we haul some of their stuff on our trailer to the next race venue because they are already way overloaded.

How anyone can put a race vehicle and all the other stuff you need to bring racing -AND- keep it under 10k# with the trailer??? Not really gonna happen. Race rig, 2 sets of Tires, Fuel, Tools, spare parts, pit-bike, pit canopy, welder, generator and more in an enclosed are already overweight. Want to bring a spare motor, axles, lockers and stuff that regularly break - that is usually what we end up hauling.

The Seneca (I can speak for our year) really is not able to haul a fully loaded 10k trailer and stay under the rated GCWR. When we scale... we are usually at our limit with 7,500# on the trailer axles and 800# on the hitch. Water tank is 1/3 and black/grey are empty.

Would we like having the extra capacity that a few Renegade and Dynamax offer?? Sure we would, we even looked at them... even a Haulmark on a modified Cascadia chassis with a DD15. Enough money can solve lots of these problems - we just don't have it. But we knew our GCWR weight limit before we bought the Seneca and knew that we would be running right at max GCWR most of the time. When we are fully loaded, it does not race up the canyon as it does when we are empty and without the trailer - we knew that 10k or more in trailer weight would not work as well with the Seneca.

[outlawten5]

Thanks for the replies. I don't carry many spare parts, tires, welders etc.. Just a tool box and small compressor. I did find some tuner modules that will boost power in the mountains. 60hp and 100ft lbs. Although those were for pickups and not the freightliner chassis. Same engine, not sure if it would work. I really like the Seneca as I am sure you guys do. Still researching. Thanks for your input.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by outlawten5

Thanks for the replies. I don't carry many spare parts, tires, welders etc.. Just a tool box and small compressor. I did find some tuner modules that will boost power in the mountains. 60hp and 100ft lbs. Although those were for pickups and not the freightliner chassis. Same engine, not sure if it would work. I really like the Seneca as I am sure you guys do. Still researching. Thanks for your input.

I think RobbbyR has spelled out the issue being with the limitations of the A2500MH transmission. We dont want to start chunking our transmissions either. Read his post: https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...tml#post721613

[MD3]

Originally Posted by outlawten5

Thanks for the replies. I don't carry many spare parts, tires, welders etc.. Just a tool box and small compressor. I did find some tuner modules that will boost power in the mountains. 60hp and 100ft lbs. Although those were for pickups and not the freightliner chassis. Same engine, not sure if it would work. I really like the Seneca as I am sure you guys do. Still researching. Thanks for your input.

I found the same thing. Nothing has been tested yet.
TS Performance has a programmer that will plug in but it's not tested and not for sale yet for the newer Cummins 6.7L. They have one for the 2007.5-2012 Cummins 6.7L. It is adjustable for up to +30% increase in power.
https://www.shoptsperformance.com/

I will try a programmer as soon as it comes out.

I really doubt Freightliner or Allison are foolish enough to pair an engine/trans that was at the absolute max limit from the start. They might state it is the max limit on paper but I would bet my Allison 2500 it can and will handle more than 340/700. If we are already at the mechanical max on the 2500 we would be seeing failures in the 2500.
I'm not looking for big power but enough to hold 50-55mph in the hills around me would be great.

Everything I've ever seen in the automotive industry with max ratings is an engineered number with a cushion built into that number. The manufacturers do not want to see the failures so they underrate the numbers by a percentage to avoid the failures and try to ensure reliability.


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[outlawten5]

There are quite a few performance modules available. AFE Scorcher looks like what I would be after. Plugs into the diagnostic port. Leaves no trace or footprint. 60hp and 90 ft lbs. That would be great for steep grades
https://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/...l-cummins.aspx