Composting Toilet Seneca

[McGintys924]

I am scheduled to purchase a new leftover '15 Seneca 36 FK in two weeks from a dealer near the factory. I have many questions that I have been able to answer on the forum, but wanted to ask if anyone has installed a composting toilet in their Seneca. While I originally received the idea from Gone with the Wynns, I now realize,this is a critical issue for me as I need to boondock almost constantly and want to combine grey and black tanks. Since the unit is new there have never been turds in the tank.

Also, it currently comes with the couch and booth separated and would like to ask if anyone has remodeled their furniture and what costs this might have.

I would also like any other advice on picking up this new leftover unit. We are super excited and super nervous!

[SloPoke]

Welcome to the forum... We also have a 2015 Seneca 36FK - and love it.

We also boondock about 95% of the time and have no problems with our RV toilet with the 50gal Black Capacity. Are you worried about the Grey Water? and wanting to put Grey in the Black too?

[McGintys924]

Yes, the main goal of the composting toilet is to eliminate that source of water usage, but moreover to combine grey/black tanks.

[oldmanAZ]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your Seneca.

I can't help with your specific questions, but do suggest you do a thorough PDI (you may have already looked at the 'sticky' in this site): Be sure they show you that everything works and that you know how to operate everything once you leave the lot.

[Bassdogs]

Do a search on the subject of compost toilets. There was a lengthy one earlier this year. The point that is often forgotten with a composting toilet is that the composting process takes place over weeks, not hours and days. At the end of the long weekend or eventually it will fill up and you will be removing a bag of "crap" that may be mixed with peat or straw but will not have decomposed at all. Picture when the wife is cooking breakfast and you come out of the bathroom with a full bag of crap and head out the front door. Then take a deep breath and think about where you will be taking that full bag of crap. I don't think your fellow campers or the camp ground owners are going to want a full bag of human waste in their trash dumpster since it is after all crap and not compost.

On a seasonal or permanent site, a compost toilet might be a good fit but I would put it in a small outhouse type enclosure so I could avoid the above mentioned walk of shame. You have a nice RV, do you really want to play with bags of crap? Go to a website and read the way a compost toilet works. It involves turning over the solids and adding peet or straw or whatever to mix things up as the liquid is dehydrated out of the solids. That compacts the solids that for days if not weeks will be essencially stirred up human waste. Doing your business in a heavy bag drapped over a 5 gallon bucket [short of the venting and liquid drain] is pretty much what you will have when you boondock for a few days or even a couple weeks. You will be handling that bag several times depending on the # of depositors that will punching their ticket.

Use the RV toilet / black tank and get a couple water containers to refill your fresh tank. Then get a tote and drain the black tank as needed. You can reduce toilet usage in the RV by taking advantage of the facilities provide. When you read about how composting toilets work, the modern vault toilet at most campgrounds doesn't seem all that distasteful.

[McGintys924]

I am not going to lie to anyone, you had me laughing all the way through that post. Fortunately I still have my nerve to use the composting toilet, but am looking for advice on installing it. I cannot do a tote, and fresh water is not my worries, but rather grey water.

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by McGintys924

I am not going to lie to anyone, you had me laughing all the way through that post. Fortunately I still have my nerve to use the composting toilet, but am looking for advice on installing it. I cannot do a tote, and fresh water is not my worries, but rather grey water.

Laugh at your own peril, my post was not meant to be funny but factual. There is a lot of input on previous threads on the installation process and pitfalls of using composting toilets. After you spend north of $1000 for a toilet that will operate mostly like I described, all I will say is good luck.

[McGintys924]

We ended up not purchasing the Seneca as the dealer would not answer my emails or questions, financing woman was terrible and rude and hung up on my twice. Look at the other reviews of a dealer you want to do business with; had a looked at the reviews closer, I could have run away fast!!!

[motorbreath]

I don't think that the fact that the waste is not composted is a huge issue. Keep in mind that there are true composting toilets, which you would not use in your RV, and RV "composting" toilets, which are really not meant to compost your waste. Instead they do three things: (i) separate the liquid and solid waste streams, (ii) desiccate the solid waste, and (iii) apply negative pressure to the solid waste container.

All three of these things are meant to reduce the chances of waste gases getting into the RV. Heck, it would be nice to have negative pressure on your black tank so you don't get a whiff when you flush with the vent fan on. Regarding disposal, this should not need to happen more than a few times a month, but it is human waste and needs to be disposed of legally.

Regarding the "walk of shame", I think this is not an issue for everyone. Up until recently I had a dog and picked up her waste at least twice a day in a little plastic baggy. It did not seem so bad, definitely was outweighed by the benefits of having a dog. I can imagine the same is true for the composting toilets, having 80gal of grey water capacity at the cost of a walk of shame twice a month...I can personally deal with that

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Do a search on the subject of compost toilets. There was a lengthy one earlier this year. The point that is often forgotten with a composting toilet is that the composting process takes place over weeks, not hours and days. At the end of the long weekend or eventually it will fill up and you will be removing a bag of "crap" that may be mixed with peat or straw but will not have decomposed at all. Picture when the wife is cooking breakfast and you come out of the bathroom with a full bag of crap and head out the front door. Then take a deep breath and think about where you will be taking that full bag of crap. I don't think your fellow campers or the camp ground owners are going to want a full bag of human waste in their trash dumpster since it is after all crap and not compost.

[McGintys924]

I have started my composting toilet project on my '18 Seneca. I have been able to get the new toilet in and vented without making any new holes anywhere this far. Now I am in need of 12 volt power which, according to the natures head manual, will draw 1.7 watts. Does anyone (Rob?) see any problem splicing into one of the wires going to the lights in the basement bays?. This is for the blower fan which must run continuously.

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by motorbreath

Regarding disposal, this should not need to happen more than a few times a month, but it is human waste and needs to be disposed of legally.

Would you take a minute or two and outline how to "legally" dispose of your bag of compressed human poop?

CG toilet? Nope.
Trash dumpster? Nope
Rest area on the trip home Nope
Household trash when you get home? Hmm nope
A special recycling container? ?????
Bury in your back yard? Probably legal but not at my home.

Your plan for the legal disposal of the above mentioned material Please----

[Grumpy]

It's obvious neither of you understand the process, waste is 90% water.

The US Coast Guard-certified Sun-Mar Mobile was developed for use in boats and RV's. It is only slightly wider and longer than a regular toilet seat, so it will fit almost anywhere.

For the first time, people can go where they want without having to worry about "pump outs". Now campers and boaters can enjoy the benefits of composting toilets and be assured that their toilet waste is not causing a pollution problem anywhere

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by McGintys924

I have started my composting toilet project on my '18 Seneca. I have been able to get the new toilet in and vented without making any new holes anywhere this far. Now I am in need of 12 volt power which, according to the natures head manual, will draw 1.7 watts. Does anyone (Rob?) see any problem splicing into one of the wires going to the lights in the basement bays?. This is for the blower fan which must run continuously.

I think tapping into the basement light circuit is doable and would certainly support a low draw like you cite. That seems very low to me for a motor, but you are reading the specs not me! But if you change out the basement light fixture incandescent bulbs for led modules as I did, the power draw certainly won't be an issue even if it was several amps.

If you want/need more power and a dedicated circuit you could mimic what I did. I installed a Thetford Aria Deluxe II electric flush toilet in my Seneca within the first week I had it. So running 12-volts into the bathroom happened for me very early. I also included a 12-volt outlet in the bedroom in the same circuit for running my CPAP machine when not plugged in. I ran a new circuit from an open spot in my power center, bringing it down from the power center through the floor into the wet bay, and then routing it next to the black tank under the floor to the bathroom side. On my TS I could remove the false wall (4 small screws) in the compartment above my LP tank and see right over to the wet bay. Ran 14-gauge power and ground wires in plastic wire loom across and brought them up through the bathroom floor. You don't want to drill too close to the bathroom wall since there is aluminum tubing at the edges of the floor structure. Come back from the wall a couple inches and all you should hit is the floor tile, OSB, styrofoam, and the Darco-covered luan on the bottom. That advice came from Jayco Service who I consulted before sinking holes!

My power center had several open 12-volt spots, the unused wires were behind the power center just not connected to anything. Have them all filled now with all my mods!

[McGintys924]

Grumpy, thank your for explaining to those whom are less enlightened. Installation has been a challenge but looking forward to never having a black tank to drain.

Rob, how hard is it for a novice to pull power off of the fuse box in the bedroom. I do have the cover off from above the LP tank (black tank bay) and can see across to the wet bay. From the wet bay I can see all the wires going up to the combo fuse/breaker box with some spray foam insulation injected in there. I always appreciate your wisdom into these mods.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by McGintys924

Rob, how hard is it for a novice to pull power off of the fuse box in the bedroom. I do have the cover off from above the LP tank (black tank bay) and can see across to the wet bay. From the wet bay I can see all the wires going up to the combo fuse/breaker box with some spray foam insulation injected in there. I always appreciate your wisdom into these mods.

My 2014 has a Progressive Dynamics power center, not sure what yours might have. With mine I was able to remove the 4 screws in the corner of my power center and then pull the whole thing out of the cabinet about 6 - 8 inches. Fortunately all the wiring, both 12-volt and 120-volt, had enough slack to allow it to come out. Here is my Public Safety Announcement - When you plan to work with the Power Center in any way, remove all 120-volt and 12-volt power by unplugging from shore power; making sure any generator auto-start is disabled; and disconnect the batteries. You will likely need to run a cord inside the coach from external power to have lights to work, or use flashlights.

Once power center pulled out I was able to easily see the unused 12-volt circuits, PD leaves about 6" of wire sticking out of the back of the power center. Using my meter I was able to figure out which unused fuse position matched up with which wires. Simple matter then of using a quality butt connector to attach my new wire to the one coming from the power center.

As far as getting the power wire from underneath (in the wet bay) up into the area under the wardrobe I work first from the wet bay. I have had good luck taping (using electrical tape) the new wire to a piece of straight welding rod or coat hanger. Then I carefully poke the wire/hanger combo up through the expanded foam in an area that looks clear of other wires. Go slow, may need to re-position if you hit significant resistance. Don't want to damage other wiring. Usually it will poke through very easily. Push enough up so that you can then go inside and pull it all the way through. Remove the push wire and pull enough of the power wire through to reach the power center. Then you can connect it to the power center wire you have chosen.

As far as the ground, in the wet bay area all my grounds head back into the generator compartment to tie into the frame there. So I ran a ground wire similarly, tying it to the frame there also. Then I bundled the new power and ground wires together with tape every foot or so, then put it in 3/8" plastic wire loom to protect it from abrading against anything. Then I shoved it through to the other side of the coach and then wire tie it all up neatly up in the wet bay what I could reach. Then from the passenger side it can be run up through the floor to the toilet area.

Hope that helps.

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

It's obvious neither of you understand the process, waste is 90% water.

The US Coast Guard-certified Sun-Mar Mobile was developed for use in boats and RV's. It is only slightly wider and longer than a regular toilet seat, so it will fit almost anywhere.

For the first time, people can go where they want without having to worry about "pump outs". Now campers and boaters can enjoy the benefits of composting toilets and be assured that their toilet waste is not causing a pollution problem anywhere

Obviously you have an opinion on this but that doesn't mean the rest of us are uninformed. Most of us have the ability to do our own research and formulate an Informed opinion on this subject. The reviews on the specific unit you refer to are mixed, but the common thread in all of them is that this is far from "easy" to use properly. There is a process and a fair amount of user intervention to make it function properly. In short they can handle a limited amount of use in a given period of time. If you have a problem with filling the black tank over a 2 or 3 day weekend, then you may well have a problem with this composting unit.

Now back to my question, what is the legal method of disposing of the dried compacted poop in your bag? Please avoid the condecending attitude and just inform the uninformed among us/

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Bassdogs

Obviously you have an opinion on this but that doesn't mean the rest of us are uninformed.

Now back to my question, what is the legal method of disposing of the dried compacted poop in your bag? Please avoid the condecending attitude and just inform the uninformed among us/

#1 I didn't say you were uninformed, I said you don't understand the process and not my opinion, just the facts that are readily available with a little research.

The National Park Service has been using composting toilets for years in areas where access to emptying latrine holding tanks is impossible. Many remote cabins and island homes in Alaska and Canada also use them. They have been in use in Europe even longer.

The composted waste can legally and safely be added to any composting pile, used directly on decorative plants or trees or put into a landfill, which by the way, is where a high amount of de-watered sewage sludge goes. Where do 90% of the soiled disposable diapers go, directly into the garbage.

[wanderlust]

We plan on installing a CT next year when we start traveling for months at a time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5CdnVZkCKXU

[McGintys924]

Bassdogs, please note that I also did not mention that anyone was uninformed, but rather unenlightened to the advantages I perceive of using a composting toilet. Unenlightened, in this context, was utilized to mean that some, who perceive this method of dealing with human excremental as unappealing, may not realize some beneficial facets that exist.

My black tank on my unit will never have seen feces which means that I will only ever have some slightly gross grey water drips on me; this has been a problem for me as I seam to always have a drip from then stinky slinky land on my arm at some point during the dumping process. Now, I will never have sewage water with active living bacteria dripping on me. I do appreciate that I will need to empty the toilet into a bag about every 60 days, but the bacteria will be dead six hours after the last use due to the coconut coir and dehydration process. While I am going to admit that handling ones feces personally is off putting, there is nothing worse than emptying a black tank and having the contents hit your arm. One of the advantages that I perceive of never having sewage in the plumbing of this RV is that I am able to discard grey water onto the ground without ever having to worry it had been contaminated with black water bacteria. These are simply the advantages I perceive; others may perceive this differently.

I also do not need more than 50 gallons of black capacity, but rather would like 90 gal of grey capacity. If the black tank has never had black water bacteria, this is achievable by combining grey and black tanks. This way, I can utilize all 80 gal of fresh water and have some room left over. This is my primary motivation for the use of the composting toilet as we can all admit that the previous paragraph consists of my opinion.

Please understand that I wrote this post to request advice and wisdom for this installation, as the use of such an item would receive highly variable opinions.

As for everyones question on where to rid myself of the human waste, composted feces can be disposed of in the local dumpster (legally!) and the urine deposited in the woods. I am sure many of you have urinated in the woods at some point.

I would suggest that all of us would be uninformed regarding the use of the toilet unit watching the Wynns YouTube videos on the subject which wanderlust graciously provided us. They explained it very well and then went on to debunk myths and opinions contradicting its use.

[SloPoke]

So... this thread had piqued my quest for additional technical knowledge. I have spent now over 4 hours of watching vendor videos, gonewiththewyns and another few hours on other RV boards that I follow.

So it will take about 60-80 Bowel movements they claim - take the middle of the road and go with 70. For a Family of 4 (with teenagers) that will get you about 12 days at best.

Some other questions still remain:
How do campgrounds feel about people taking their toilet out onto the picnic table to dump?

Where do you store a bale of peatmoss or Coconut fibre?

Where do you dispose of the waste in a National Park (you must pack out everything) do you put the bag on the back bumper until you leave??? "it is still classified as Sewage"