DEF header not cheap at $900

[hammer55]

I agree, enough is enough, time for them to step up, the cost of this to owners in not cheap, time for them to step up and fix it or remove the system in totality

[hammer55]

relying on china products is the problem, we in America make nothing any longer, and this is biting us in the butt, and when china gets their claws in afghanistan the lithium market will be in trouble, let's see how that turns out,,

Originally Posted by hammer55

I agree, enough is enough, time for them to step up, the cost of this to owners in not cheap, time for them to step up and fix it or remove the system in totality

[dneeld52]

After emailing all three of the Cummins executives, the two people at EPA, and the engineer at Notre Dame who helped design the system, I immediately got a response from Cummins Engine this morning wanting to know my engine serial number. We’ll see where this goes, but he did say they are working to make that software fix available. At least that’s encouraging.

[EA37TS]

I. plan to. use the contact info to request reimbursement for hotel rooms while we were stranded waiting for repairs or for rooms after incompetent technicians thought they repaired the rig only to have the issue resurface 80 miles down the road.

We'll see what they have to say about that. I will be surprised if they even respond.

[hammer55]

Originally Posted by EA37TS

I. plan to. use the contact info to request reimbursement for hotel rooms while we were stranded waiting for repairs or for rooms after incompetent technicians thought they repaired the rig only to have the issue resurface 80 miles down the road.

We'll see what they have to say about that. I will be surprised if they even respond.

[hammer55]

https://www.rvtravel.com/cummins-def...UiEslnqewAvns4

[FYIB]

Originally Posted by dneeld52

After emailing all three of the Cummins executives, the two people at EPA, and the engineer at Notre Dame who helped design the system, I immediately got a response from Cummins Engine this morning wanting to know my engine serial number. We’ll see where this goes, but he did say they are working to make that software fix available. At least that’s encouraging.

Would be curious what your response was? I have been on phone with Cummins local and national, as well as Freightliner national trying to get this resolved. I have a 2017 Seneca and gave my engine serial number and was told by Cummins that it did not qualify for the software fix. Cummins told me to call Freightliner. I called Freightliner and they said, yes the def header is national backorder so call Cummins as we can't do anything. I'm in a infinity loop, which is awesome.

[RayBo]

Originally Posted by dneeld52

We never made it to Glacier, since the dreaded "check engine " light came on again. We diverted to Great Falls where there were multiple Cummins engine shops. Rocky Mtn Cummins had our coach for 3 days, all of which was covered under warranty, but the mechanic was scratching his head trying to find something wrong despite the system throwing 3 codes, the first of which was "too much DEF being applied"! I watched as he checked the nozzle displacement and captured it and compared it to spec. Right on, no issues. After resetting the ECU he couldn't find anything wrong. He didn't want to send me out the door empty handed so he replaced the nozzle, figuring that if anything would throw a code, it might be the nozzle. I should add that they let us come and take the coach to a nearby campground everynight! I came back a day later and bought sub sandwiches for all (16) mechanics! It was money well spent. Now on our last day of driving back to Indiana, the dreaded yellow engine light came on in Rockford, ILL and I wrecklessly said "hell with it", and kept driving. We made it home and now I need to buy the best code scanner to read this crap. Any suggestions?

I use an FCAR F507 scanner for my Freightliners. Used properly, you can see and clear nearly every code. There is a bit of a learning curve with it, so be patient. Soon I plan to re-engineer my 2012 Seneca for better performance and economy. It will include replacement of some restrictive and cumbersome parts. I have two Freightliner M2's and 5 Ford Super Duty diesel trucks from 2008 to current (6.4s and 6.7s) and I've successfully re-engineered all the Fords but one of them. I'm getting prepared to do the Seneca now. It is really satisfying to not have to concern myself with DEF and not worry about a call from my wife from 1,300 miles away when the truck decides to go into creep or idle mode. "Honey, what does Stop Safely Now on the instrument cluster mean?" Nobody likes that.

We've enjoyed significantly less pain, no more 2-day stops at dealerships, and overall have seen an average of 74% better fuel economy. My F450's were getting 9.2mpg, now we're around 15mpg with a 30K lb. LQ horse trailer over the road. Humans are not destroying the world with diesel trucks...Government is doing it well enough without us. I'll post again once I get it done and will share the experience.

[GCAT9110]

I have a 2015 37ts and it appears the M2-106 FL chassis from 2012-1017 have little to no DEF header issues but I still carry a new one with me.

[Rustynuts]

We have had our DEF Header replaced once and have not had an issue again...yet. We have a big trip coming up and I'm going prepared. There seems to be two items that can happen, the DEF header itself going out from coolant lines reversed, which ours was but is now corrected. The other is the Heater control valve going out which in turn heats the DEF and causes the Header to fail. I am running the Bluefire monitor and have never seen the DEF temp get 10-15° over ambient temps but I am going to install a ball valve on the DEF Heater coolant supply line where it comes off of the top of the motor, the same valve that is in the cab heater coolant supply line. This way IF I see the DEF temp climbing for unknown reasons, I can easily cut the supply of hot water to the DEF Heater which Freightliner has stated will not harm anything. Being travel temps are cooler now, the Bluefire DEF Temp warning level is set at 120°. The second item I will be carrying is a DEF Simulator in cas of a DEF Header failure. This is a little device you can build and program that simulates the DEF Heater in the same way that Freightliner/Cummins Software patch does. Simple to build and I found all the parts on Amazon for $87 so cheap insurance. Freightliner/Cummins is now installing the Software Patch on vehicles that are stranded and I checked my Cummins Quickserve account and my VIN is already approved for the software patch in the event I have a failure and parts are not available. Here is info on the Simulator.


https://defsim.myervin.com/

[MD3]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

We have had our DEF Header replaced once and have not had an issue again...yet. We have a big trip coming up and I'm going prepared. There seems to be two items that can happen, the DEF header itself going out from coolant lines reversed, which ours was but is now corrected. The other is the Heater control valve going out which in turn heats the DEF and causes the Header to fail. I am running the Bluefire monitor and have never seen the DEF temp get 10-15° over ambient temps but I am going to install a ball valve on the DEF Heater coolant supply line where it comes off of the top of the motor, the same valve that is in the cab heater coolant supply line. This way IF I see the DEF temp climbing for unknown reasons, I can easily cut the supply of hot water to the DEF Heater which Freightliner has stated will not harm anything. Being travel temps are cooler now, the Bluefire DEF Temp warning level is set at 120°. The second item I will be carrying is a DEF Simulator in cas of a DEF Header failure. This is a little device you can build and program that simulates the DEF Heater in the same way that Freightliner/Cummins Software patch does. Simple to build and I found all the parts on Amazon for $87 so cheap insurance. Freightliner/Cummins is now installing the Software Patch on vehicles that are stranded and I checked my Cummins Quickserve account and my VIN is already approved for the software patch in the event I have a failure and parts are not available. Here is info on the Simulator.


https://defsim.myervin.com/

I was looking this weekend at building a simulator for mine but the plug for the DEF header is different on mine (2017 M2 chassis).
I'd like to build and have a simulator on hand just for insurance to get home.

_

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by MD3

I was looking this weekend at building a simulator for mine but the plug for the DEF header is different on mine (2017 M2 chassis).
I'd like to build and have a simulator on hand just for insurance to get home.

_

I’m not sure if my plug on my S2 is the same as your M2 but I am dealing with that now. I have found the part number for the correct plug and have the S2 wiring diagrams and will be contacting the developers about it. It is still a 4 pin plug.

[MD3]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

I’m not sure if my plug on my S2 is the same as your M2 but I am dealing with that now. I have found the part number for the correct plug and have the S2 wiring diagrams and will be contacting the developers about it. It is still a 4 pin plug.

Yes, it is still a 4-pin plug.
The head of the unit on mine is black on a black tank where the pics on the build show a blue head on an opaque tank. Not sure that matters but it is different than what is pictured.

Please let me know if you find a different cord setup that will work.
I'd like to make one of these for mine.
I need to take a pic of my plug and will post up.


_

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by MD3

Yes, it is still a 4-pin plug.
The head of the unit on mine is black on a black tank where the pics on the build show a blue head on an opaque tank. Not sure that matters but it is different than what is pictured.

Please let me know if you find a different cord setup that will work.
I'd like to make one of these for mine.
I need to take a pic of my plug and will post up.


_

I have finally sourced the plug I would need and I have contacted the simulator developers asking about the pinout off the diagrams I have. Mine is a CM2350 ecu, so hopefully we can get the pinout answered. I already have my Uno board and have it programmed and the rest should be here next week. Here is a pic of my plug, is yours similar?

[MD3]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

I have finally sourced the plug I would need and I have contacted the simulator developers asking about the pinout off the diagrams I have. Mine is a CM2350 ecu, so hopefully we can get the pinout answered. I already have my Uno board and have it programmed and the rest should be here next week. Here is a pic of my plug, is yours similar?

Yes, same plug as on mine.
Do you have a link to your Amazon parts list for this ?
The website had me ordering parts from a few different places.... be great to get them all off Amazon and be done.

[repeach]

Originally Posted by MD3

Yes, same plug as on mine.
Do you have a link to your Amazon parts list for this ?
The website had me ordering parts from a few different places.... be great to get them all off Amazon and be done.

Rusty, I would love a parts list too.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by MD3

Yes, same plug as on mine.
Do you have a link to your Amazon parts list for this ?
The website had me ordering parts from a few different places.... be great to get them all off Amazon and be done.

The main build page uses a Arduino Due board but the Can bus board is out of stock. I am doing the alternate build using the Arduino Uno board, here is a link to the alternate build with links for parts all available off Amazon. You would not order the Cable listed as ours use a different plug. I have found the parts to build the plug and they should be here 10/4 and I want to confirm they are correct to fit our plugs and then will post the info for them through Mouser Electronics. Here is the link to the alternate build. If you are familiar with Windows, programming is a breeze.

https://defsim.myervin.com/using-an-...-def-simulator

[FYIB]

Thanks Rustynuts for the TRP info. I've been on what seems like 100's of calls with Freightliner and Cummins. Even spoke to one of the software developers of Cummins who writes the code for the ECU. Long story is, it sounds like the EPA is the long pole (duh) and they are controlling the ESN's that can be updated. I'm glad you go the TRP as mine still isn't on the list and the EPA it sounds like it is just releasing batches of ESN's which to me sounds stupid. So your ESN could be release today or in a month.

I too order the DSS parts a week or two ago as a backup but haven't received the parts yet. In the mean time I have a 30,000lbs paperweight.

[phuggit]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

The main build page uses a Arduino Due board but the Can bus board is out of stock. I am doing the alternate build using the Arduino Uno board, here is a link to the alternate build with links for parts all available off Amazon. You would not order the Cable listed as ours use a different plug. I have found the parts to build the plug and they should be here 10/4 and I want to confirm they are correct to fit our plugs and then will post the info for them through Mouser Electronics. Here is the link to the alternate build. If you are familiar with Windows, programming is a breeze.

https://defsim.myervin.com/using-an-...-def-simulator

I have also ordered the parts to assemble the simulator. The arduino board is back ordered until mid October. I'll be watching this thread to see what the correct cable will be for the S2RV chassis.

Until I can get the simulator completed I will be doing the same as Rustynuts and placing a valve in the DEF heater line somewhere between the engine and the DEF tank. I never drive in freezing conditions, so I cant see where cutting of the engine coolant flow will be an issue.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by phuggit

I have also ordered the parts to assemble the simulator. The arduino board is back ordered until mid October. I'll be watching this thread to see what the correct cable will be for the S2RV chassis.

Until I can get the simulator completed I will be doing the same as Rustynuts and placing a valve in the DEF heater line somewhere between the engine and the DEF tank. I never drive in freezing conditions, so I cant see where cutting of the engine coolant flow will be an issue.

I finally did put a shutoff valve in yesterday. I put it up on the supply line from the top of the motor. Easy to access and using hose pinch pliers on the coolant hose itself and the lower hose coming off the radiator reservoir I didnt even lose enough coolant to bother putting any in after I was done. I found the same Parker ball valve that Freightliner uses on the heater supply hose and then used the 90° I removed to put back in the valve and hook the hose up, took about 15 minutes to install. Here is where I got the valve....


https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/04479499


The original build parts are on backorder but the alternate build parts are all available on Amazon as on last night, here is the link to the alternate build, this is the one I am doing.


https://defsim.myervin.com/using-an-...-def-simulator



They have updated the site with info on the plug that the S2 chassis uses with part numbers for the plug parts to make it up. They give links to suppliers where you have to buy quantities but I sent them info that all the plug parts are available from Mouser Electronics.



https://defsim.myervin.com/dss-conne...cm#comment-275