Electrical shock on 2015 37TS Seneca

PrairieWanderer · 07-14-2018, 11:44 AM

Just got home from a 5 day trip and was cleaning up the Seneca before I put it in the shed for awhile. Washed off the grime outside and was wiping down the mirrors and cab windows when I started getting a tingling sensation running up my arm from the mirrors. Happened so quick I didn't realize what was happening until I touched it again. Think I have a short or was I just the ground because of all the moisture around me where I stood? I was plugged into my garage with an extension cord to keep the batteries up. I should have unplugged it before I started but was in a hurry. Dumb on my part. Was careful about where I sprayed the water though. We had just had a big rain two nights ago at the campground while hooked up to 50amp. In and out a few times and no shock with much wetter conditions. What do you guys think?

Grumpy · 07-14-2018, 11:57 AM

Could be a bad extension cord or outlet at the house.

Harvard · 07-14-2018, 12:09 PM

You have an open ground OTHERWISE the chassis would be at ground potential and no tingling...

PrairieWanderer · 07-14-2018, 01:01 PM

How would I look for an open ground?

Harvard · 07-14-2018, 01:14 PM

Take an AC Voltmeter and take readings between EARTH and 3rd Wire Ground pins where ever you have a connection. Like Grumpy said it is probably either the extension cord, the garage outlet OR the 15A, 30A or 50A adaptors you are using. 15A/30A hockey pucks are the typical culprit because the 30A female ground to too large an ID to mate with the male ground pin..

SloPoke · 07-14-2018, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer

How would I look for an open ground?

Run to the local walmart, home-depot or Lowes and grab one of these... Keep it in your rig always plugged in.

PrairieWanderer · 07-14-2018, 06:17 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. Will try them tomorrow.

PrairieWanderer · 07-18-2018, 09:19 PM

I'm still having electrical proplems with my Seneca. I originally thought the problem was the ground wire on my extension cord so when I put the Senaca away in my shed I checked the ground and all was good there. Plugging it in and a breaker tripped which panel says is fridge plug and plugs behind cab seats and one by dinette. I then started generator and it also tripped breaker. Fridge was off at time but I went ahead and unplugged it anyway. Today I pulled MH out of shed and tried to figure out where wire runs but looks confusing. Not sure if breaker comes out same as regular house breaker but open to suggestions. I did try to remove plug behind driver seat just to see what I was dealing with, Took plate off and proceded to take out screws, hearing nut or something fall off behind it. Now I need to get vinyl covered plywood off to look for screws. It has 4 button covered screws which I removed but seems to be stuck tight yet. This is directly behind driver seat facing coach interior. Am I missing more screws? Bare wire someplace or bad breaker?

SloPoke · 07-18-2018, 09:39 PM

What does the tester show when you plug it INTO the various outlets??? You could have a reversed hot/neutral - the tester should show you if that is the case.

RVermont · 07-19-2018, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer

I'm still having electrical proplems with my Seneca. I originally thought the problem was the ground wire on my extension cord so when I put the Senaca away in my shed I checked the ground and all was good there. Plugging it in and a breaker tripped which panel says is fridge plug and plugs behind cab seats and one by dinette. I then started generator and it also tripped breaker. Fridge was off at time but I went ahead and unplugged it anyway. Today I pulled MH out of shed and tried to figure out where wire runs but looks confusing. Not sure if breaker comes out same as regular house breaker but open to suggestions. I did try to remove plug behind driver seat just to see what I was dealing with, Took plate off and proceded to take out screws, hearing nut or something fall off behind it. Now I need to get vinyl covered plywood off to look for screws. It has 4 button covered screws which I removed but seems to be stuck tight yet. This is directly behind driver seat facing coach interior. Am I missing more screws? Bare wire someplace or bad breaker?

When you remove the caps there is a screw holding the cap on and then there are longer screws underneath the cap base. So Total of eight screws While you are in there inspect the caulking to make sure it is sealed well.

The circuit breakers snap out like home ones.

PrairieWanderer · 07-21-2018, 07:39 AM

Got that panel off behind the drivers seat and there was my problem. The wire feeding the plug-in was almost burnt off where it comes into the coach. It was wedged in between a piece of tin and the fiberglass of the coach. Tin wasn't even cut out for it. Coating was burnt off black wire and ground wire was burnt off. Daylight coming through some places too, so will have to seal that up also. Shoddy work for sure! Got one of those testers and all is good now. Thanks for the responses. Mark

Harvard · 07-21-2018, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer

Got that panel off behind the drivers seat and there was my problem. The wire feeding the plug-in was almost burnt off where it comes into the coach. It was wedged in between a piece of tin and the fiberglass of the coach. Tin wasn't even cut out for it. Coating was burnt off black wire and ground wire was burnt off. Daylight coming through some places too, so will have to seal that up also. Shoddy work for sure! Got one of those testers and all is good now. Thanks for the responses. Mark

Sounds like the black Hot wire was doing some serious arcing. Was the ground wire burned "open" or was it insulation around the ground wire "burnt off". I am visioning the ground wire to be bare copper with no insulation.

SloPoke · 07-21-2018, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer

Got that panel off behind the drivers seat and there was my problem. The wire feeding the plug-in was almost burnt off where it comes into the coach. It was wedged in between a piece of tin and the fiberglass of the coach. Tin wasn't even cut out for it. Coating was burnt off black wire and ground wire was burnt off. Daylight coming through some places too, so will have to seal that up also. Shoddy work for sure! Got one of those testers and all is good now. Thanks for the responses. Mark

Glad you found it... BTW, I leave one of those testers permanently plugged into the outlet in our power cord reel cabinet. First thing I do is test the outlets on the power pedestal (I use a Wiggy for that). Once the pedestal is tested and clear of any issues, the Seneca gets plugged in after the Genny is shut down. I validate the tester in the outlet first thing before closing the door and walking around the Seneca.

RVermont · 07-21-2018, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer

Got that panel off behind the drivers seat and there was my problem. The wire feeding the plug-in was almost burnt off where it comes into the coach. It was wedged in between a piece of tin and the fiberglass of the coach. Tin wasn't even cut out for it. Coating was burnt off black wire and ground wire was burnt off. Daylight coming through some places too, so will have to seal that up also. Shoddy work for sure! Got one of those testers and all is good now. Thanks for the responses. Mark

Glad you were able to identify the issue before anyone or any serious damage resulted

I installed rubber grommets around the wires when I had those panels off. I then sealed the gaps with caulk and finally insulated and foamed both sides to try to reduce some of the heat loss and air flow. You literally could blow out a candle with the air flow blowing around the fiberglass caps.

DNelson · 07-21-2018, 06:40 PM

I sure am glad you were able to get that figured out. Having an RV hot skin (frequently called stray voltage) condition can be deadly. Although I use those handy plug in 120 volt testers too there can be problems in campground wiring that could kill you before you get a chance to use it. Everyone should invest in a cheap (about $20 or less) non-contact voltage tester and use it on the campground pedestal and the RV before touching anything. Take a look at the below video that explains why it may save your life and shows how easy they are to use.

Be safe out there!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuWX9wJwvtU

PrairieWanderer · 07-21-2018, 06:43 PM

The ground wire was bare and burnt off. The hot wire had charred a small area on the tin and fiberglass pretty black. Kinda wonder why the breaker never tripped till I moved the Seneca into my shed. Then it popped immediately when I plugged in. It had sat plugged for almost a day after arriving home from a State Park where we had been plugged in for 5 days. Anyway it's fixed now. I also put in a rubber grommet, some foam spray and caulked some daylight. Ready to go again next week! Mark

Harvard · 07-21-2018, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrairieWanderer

...... Kinda wonder why the breaker never tripped till I moved the Seneca into my shed. .........

The circuit, that included the extension cord and the arcing hot wire to ground, must have had a series resistance that was high enough to not blow the breaker.

Then once the extension cord was out of the circuit, the arcing hot wire drew more current then the circuit breaker tripping current.

That is why, in some electrical codes, an arc detecting breaker must be used to service outlets in bedrooms etc...

SloPoke · 07-21-2018, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvard

The circuit, that included the extension cord and the arcing hot wire to ground, must have had a series resistance that was high enough to not blow the breaker.

Then once the extension cord was out of the circuit, the arcing hot wire drew more current then the circuit breaker tripping current.

That is why, in some electrical codes, an arc detecting breaker must be used to service outlets in bedrooms etc...

That is a good explanation, and justification why thin-gauge extension cords are discouraged so much.

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