Seneca Floor Bolts

[Basil]

As follows is my request for Jayco to repair the floor of our 2018 Seneca 37TS
Jayco;
We are sorry to hear of some issue you are having with your floor, although you did not mention what the issue was.
I checked your history & there were no notes in the system. The last time we had any contact regarding your coach was 12/9/19 when we paid for work on your coach.
As you know Jayco’s Warranty is for 2 years, your warranty expired 7/22/19. The coach has been out of our control for over 6 years. We will assist with direction or guidance on repairs but there will be no monetary assistance.

My Reply;
Good Day,
As the issue is the same and has been repaired at Traveland RV in Airdire Alberta and again at Happy Trails RV in Grande Prairie I think Jayco should stand behind their product and continue to repair a problem until it is corrected. I have attached photos.

Jayco;
Good evening Basil,

Sorry to inform you once again, we must adhere to our Warranty Guidelines of two years from the date of purchase.. Beyond that it becomes the owner’s responsibility.



Wayne Wigner
Customer Service Specialist
Phone: 800.283.8267
E-Mail: Motorizedservice@jayco.com
903 S. Main St., Middlebury, IN 46540
Jayco | Entegra Coach

My Reply;
Well so much for customer service and standing behind your product. Be prepared for the Jayco name to been widely seen on Social Media and not in a positive light.
And the phrase Customer Service Specialist does not belong in your job title my friend.

Am I wrong here?

[Grumpy]

If it's been repaired twice that says the repairs weren't done correctly the first time in my opinion, so I don't know what the correct answer is. However, I would think it goes back to the dealer(s) who made the initial repairs.

I had a similar warranty issue with Chevy. Bought a new Traverse and some of the chrome on the roof rack was bad so the dealer replaced those pieces. One month out of warranty another piece went bad and GM only covered half the cost. If it had been further out of warranty I doubt very much GM would have paid anything.

[Kevin Cooper]

How long since the last attempt to repair it has it been?

[stu stoner]

Had two screws back out on our Alante. These screws, at least on our rig, are Phillips head self tappers that go into a steel cross member. I cut an "X" thru the linoleum just big enough to remove the screw. I then put Loctite on the threads and reinstalled the screw. Put a dab of adhesive to the underside of the linoleum and put a flat weight on the spot and let the adhesive dry. This was more than a year ago and a lot of bouncing since the repair. Seems to do the trick. The area is barely noticeable.

[Docsouce]

I had 4 pop up in the first year of owning our 2020 26XD class C. I brought it to the dealer to be repaired. When I picked it up I was told the bolts were "all set". Took the RV on an 8000 mile cross country trip and by the time I returned home 3 more popped up. So I took my trusty inspection camera and went looking down the channel crossmember just to satisfy my curiosity. I found that the dealers idea of repairing the bolts was to remove them and fill the hole with construction glue. I took measurements and was able to locate 3 of the 4 bolts the dealer had "repaired", cleaned out the glue and replaced the 3 bolts using the method outlined by stu stoner. I also fixed the other 3 bolts the same way.
Last season we put on about 9000 miles and all was ok. I'm on the road right now and I see one starting to show. I"ll fix that one when I get home.
That the Jayco dealer "fixed" this by removing the bolts seems rather odd, if not downright unsafe. I wonder if this is Jayco's suggested method of repair
or just the dealers slipshod work. I don't know because I never asked and never have gone back.

[Rustynuts]

Well you probably won’t like my answer, but I agree with Jayco. This is a very common occurrence in many brands of RVs, not just Jayco. Is the screw that is backing out this time the exact same ones that were repaired or completely different one? If it is a different one then I agree with Jayco as they can’t keep warrantying every screw that may back out after 2 years, your motorhome is a rolling earthquake. As far as spreading the word on social media, this exact issue is already all over the Facebook groups and how to do the repair.

[SloPoke]

After dealing with this same issue... we feel blessed that our Seneca does not have the one-piece linoleum with a decorative pattern, ours is individual tiles that can be lifted and reinstalled (with the correct tools and methods).

What is really at issue here - is a fundamental classroom engineering school classroom exercise. When attaching a material to a solid metal structure that has dynamic movements expected in the design (IE: foam core flooring) self tapping fasteners are not suitable for this application as they are prone to back-out under dynamic loads that include lateral stresses.

Another issue we identified was that the foam core flooring will continue to compress as these same fasteners are being tightened. Proper design would have a structure that will not compress under the attaching fasteners. As the foam core is being pulled, the screws stayed the same lenght in comparison to the floors thickness.

[Basil]

LOL Your right I disagree with your answer sorry

[Basil]

I am just amazed that they did not use a threat lock product on these bolts at the factory and why they continue to make the same mistake for years. Why didn't the dealers use threat lock? Because Jayco wouldn't cover the cost?

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Basil

I am just amazed that they did not use a threat lock product on these bolts at the factory and why they continue to make the same mistake for years. Why didn't the dealers use threat lock? Because Jayco wouldn't cover the cost?

Thread lock? (aka Locktite)

Most applications of thread lock work on threaded bolts into a threaded fastener (nut or blind fastener). I have not heard of it working well when a self-tapping screw is first driven thru two inches of wood/foam/wood where the Loctite will be wiped off the self-tapping screw as it passes thru the flooring before it comes into contact with the structural material it is attaching to it (that structural metal is only is about 1/8inch thick).

We replaced the self tapping screws in our Seneca that were backing out with a fastener that was like this but longer. We put construction adhesive under the flange and used nylon locking nuts where we could.

[Rustynuts]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

Thread lock? (aka Locktite)

Most applications of thread lock work on threaded bolts into a threaded fastener (nut or blind fastener). I have not heard of it working well when a self-tapping screw is first driven thru two inches of wood/foam/wood where the Loctite will be wiped off the self-tapping screw as it passes thru the flooring before it comes into contact with the structural material it is attaching to it (that structural metal is only is about 1/8inch thick).

We replaced the self tapping screws in our Seneca that were backing out with a fastener that was like this but longer. We put construction adhesive under the flange and used nylon locking nuts where we could.

Those are called Elevator bolts.

[Toad]

2020 232RBW.
Floor lag bolts are a continuous problem on Jayco RVs.
Jayco has known of this problem for year's and does nothing to correct this poor design.
When floor is attached to frame lag screws are placed through flooring before vinyl is laid and through vibration work their way out of frame and up through floor until protruding through finished floor.



I have had to cut vinyl 3 time's in different locations, add some Gorilla glue and screw bolts tight again the place heavy object on vinyl until glue set's up, with fare satisfaction.



When we bought our 2020 232RBW we traded in a 20+ year old Terry travel trailer "sure miss that old trailer".


Never had near the issues we have had with our new 2020 Jayco 232RBW.


My review in a nutshell "stay away from Jayco". I will never own another one.


At age 67, this will be my last headache on wheels I hope.

Originally Posted by Basil

As follows is my request for Jayco to repair the floor of our 2018 Seneca 37TS
Jayco;
We are sorry to hear of some issue you are having with your floor, although you did not mention what the issue was.
I checked your history & there were no notes in the system. The last time we had any contact regarding your coach was 12/9/19 when we paid for work on your coach.
As you know Jayco’s Warranty is for 2 years, your warranty expired 7/22/19. The coach has been out of our control for over 6 years. We will assist with direction or guidance on repairs but there will be no monetary assistance.

My Reply;
Good Day,
As the issue is the same and has been repaired at Traveland RV in Airdire Alberta and again at Happy Trails RV in Grande Prairie I think Jayco should stand behind their product and continue to repair a problem until it is corrected. I have attached photos.

Jayco;
Good evening Basil,

Sorry to inform you once again, we must adhere to our Warranty Guidelines of two years from the date of purchase.. Beyond that it becomes the owner’s responsibility.



Wayne Wigner
Customer Service Specialist
Phone: 800.283.8267
E-Mail: Motorizedservice@jayco.com
903 S. Main St., Middlebury, IN 46540
Jayco | Entegra Coach

My Reply;
Well so much for customer service and standing behind your product. Be prepared for the Jayco name to been widely seen on Social Media and not in a positive light.
And the phrase Customer Service Specialist does not belong in your job title my friend.

Am I wrong here?

[Jiggles]

After 6 months I had a bolt pop up near the bath. When I asked a RV maintenance shop to pursue repair, Jayco came back and said I would need to bring it back to the factory since the vinyl floor would have to be replaced. I used a razer blade to cut the vinyl screwed the bolt down and sealed the vinyl. No problem since.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Toad

2020 232RBW.
Floor lag bolts are a continuous problem on Jayco RVs.
Jayco has known of this problem for year's and does nothing to correct this poor design.

If that was the case then everybody would be affected.. Never had it on our 2001, 2008 or 2015. Traveled over 50,000 miles with each rig.

[Basil]

Sir I agree with you 100%
They have a problem fix it. Sure **** happens but do you continue to make that same mistake at the factory level for years?
Isn't the definition of stupidity the action of doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?
This is our second Seneca the first being a 2008 that we were very happy with but upgraded ( what a joke) to the 2018 there is no comparison to the two units.
We will never buy another Jayco product and at more that $350,000 Cdn we expected a little more.

QUOTE=Toad;1130042]2020 232RBW.
Floor lag bolts are a continuous problem on Jayco RVs.
Jayco has known of this problem for year's and does nothing to correct this poor design.
When floor is attached to frame lag screws are placed through flooring before vinyl is laid and through vibration work their way out of frame and up through floor until protruding through finished floor.



I have had to cut vinyl 3 time's in different locations, add some Gorilla glue and screw bolts tight again the place heavy object on vinyl until glue set's up, with fare satisfaction.



When we bought our 2020 232RBW we traded in a 20+ year old Terry travel trailer "sure miss that old trailer".


Never had near the issues we have had with our new 2020 Jayco 232RBW.


My review in a nutshell "stay away from Jayco". I will never own another one.


At age 67, this will be my last headache on wheels I hope.[/QUOTE]

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by Basil

Sir I agree with you 100%
They have a problem fix it. Sure **** happens but do you continue to make that same mistake at the factory level for years?
Isn't the definition of stupidity the action of doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

I can see your frustration, but it's not just a JAYCO issue, but an industry issue and you're right, **** happens when you bounce a house down the road at 60-65 mph and they are all pretty much assembled the exact same way.

From the KEYSTONE FORUM:

I apologize if this has been covered. I did do a search and didn't find anything. Last time out we noticed a bolt pushing up the flooring in the kitchen area of our 3 year old Passport.

From the HEARTLAND FORUM:

I have noticed the head of a bolt or screw coming up under the vinyl floor. It is near the center of the floor between the refrigerator and the table in the slide. Right now it is slightly raised and I am afraid if I don't get it fixed, it will come up all the way through the floor. Does anyone have any idea of what this is and how I can fix it.


From the FOREST RIVER FORUM:

Earlier this year, started to have a bump in the floor, which is now getting worse.

One of the screws or bolts is backing out and pushing up on the Beauflor flooring, actually pulling up the flooring, now getting super taught, and will eventually tear up our flooring.

[Basil]

But yet it never happened with our 2008 that we put 60,000 miles on. There has to be a solution sir and I really don't see it as being that difficult. Stop using self tappers to start with!

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I can see your frustration, but it's not just a JAYCO issue, but an industry issue and you're right, **** happens when you bounce a house down the road at 60-65 mph and they are all pretty much assembled the exact same way.

From the KEYSTONE FORUM:

I apologize if this has been covered. I did do a search and didn't find anything. Last time out we noticed a bolt pushing up the flooring in the kitchen area of our 3 year old Passport.

From the HEARTLAND FORUM:

I have noticed the head of a bolt or screw coming up under the vinyl floor. It is near the center of the floor between the refrigerator and the table in the slide. Right now it is slightly raised and I am afraid if I don't get it fixed, it will come up all the way through the floor. Does anyone have any idea of what this is and how I can fix it.


From the FOREST RIVER FORUM:

Earlier this year, started to have a bump in the floor, which is now getting worse.

One of the screws or bolts is backing out and pushing up on the Beauflor flooring, actually pulling up the flooring, now getting super taught, and will eventually tear up our flooring.

[Toad]

In the construction industry the standard is "glue and screw" underlayment before fastening.

Works well for squeak also.

Originally Posted by Basil

But yet it never happened with our 2008 that we put 60,000 miles on. There has to be a solution sir and I really don't see it as being that difficult. Stop using self tappers to start with!

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Rustynuts

Those are called Elevator bolts.

Yes they are...

As I was faced with the same problem that many on this forum-thread are facing, it is how to deal with the self-tapping screws that Jayco used to fasten the "foam cored flooring" to the metal crossmembers that are part of the structural framing that the motorhome is built.

For us with the 2015 model year, Jayco did us a favor and used individual vinyl floor tiles instead of a single sheet of linoleum across the entire floor. Our floor tiles are not all that fancy, but they can be lifted and replaced by a flooring professional with the proper tools (Not my specialty - we paid for this expertise) without total destruction of the floor tile.

Once removed, it became obvious that the screws that were used to put the foam cored subfloor were the problem. These screws could be easily tightened into the self-tapping hole they were drilled into, but how does tightening them back down again - keep them from backing out too?

Yeah... many on JOF have a valid claim that this method of attaching the floor structure to the metal cross-member is really a "fast-and-easy" method to spit out as many motorhomes as possible each day... and it is fast and easy only if it will stay attached to the floor structure as designed - but it really does not seem to be working so well in a motorhome/trailer application. I can't argue with that thinking... I had the problem, Jayco/CW would not fix it under the extended warranty I purchased... so I had to fix it myself the best I could.

It has been 3+ years now... and the elevator bolts are still holding up as thought, there might be a new screw that we did not replace last time that is backing out, that remains to be fixed with the same solution we used. (I wished that we fixed them all, but that was too big of a project at the time, we fixed what had backed out then.

[4wdclassc]

I’m having the same problem with my floor What dog poop ��