Seneca Generator Service (Level II)

[SloPoke]

Our Onan QD8000 Generator is turning 1,700 hrs old this week and I am reminded again that it is time for the Level II service that includes flushing and replacing the coolant among a bunch of other service details above and beyond the typical oil/filter/air-filter/fuel-filter regimen it has been getting up to now.

I called our local Onan service center and they can get us in next week. As I spoke to the service writer about the details of what they service, he advises that they take the unit out of the motorhome and it goes onto a shop bench for the work, thus the service runs at about $1,000+

We have had no specific problems with the unit, but we have had it shut down a couple of times because of overheat/overload a couple of years ago.

Has anyone else had the Level II service? What feedback can you give on the process?

[McGintys924]

Well Steve, I was watching to see what others would say about this issue. We have not even had ours two years and we are over 650 hours. I often boondock when working for a specific site in their parking lot. I actually purchased a champion gas inverter generator to spare some hours on the diesel, but don’t always take that with me. That’s an expensive service at only 1700 hours!

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by McGintys924

Well Steve, I was watching to see what others would say about this issue. We have not even had ours two years and we are over 650 hours. I often boondock when working for a specific site in their parking lot. I actually purchased a champion gas inverter generator to spare some hours on the diesel, but don’t always take that with me. That’s an expensive service at only 1700 hours!

We too like to boondock as much as we possibly can when we travel, and while we are travelling, We both work out of our Seneca, on our computers and that requires AC power 90% of the time. That is why we have 1700 hours.

After figuring the average, it comes to about 51 hours a month and we look at it as a business expense, that allows us to travel at the same time.

I really was hoping to find another Seneca (or genny owner) who has done it... maybe nobody here has??? I'm not really looking forward to spending the $$$, but on the other side of the coin - don't want to start having any problems with this unit because of our lack of maintenance. We love our Seneca, it has everything we need / want / could ask for. We plan to keep this one for a lot of years.

[Robbbyr]

I only have about 300 hours on mine, sorry I can't help!

[McGintys924]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

I only have about 300 hours on mine, sorry I can't help!

Really, I thought you would be the one guy who would have done this. I know I always look for your wisdom on here. Only other person to ask would be Kurt Kuhl; he full times out of a 2013 FK too.

[tjbroussard]

Interesting.

At the FMCA Rally in Perry, GA last year, Cummins OEM was onsite doing maintenance on location throughout the camp area. I did not get their price sheet, but will look at this year. I think they must have a show price or perhaps only offering a simple oil service. Their trailer had quite a crowd, discount prices on filters, etc.

Oh and hats, note pads, pens and service cards as well.

I've attached the Cummins slide show from another board.

Perhaps someone else can elaborate if they had service at a national rally.

Great info. Thanks!

[RVermont]

Ouch. $1000 bucks every 1000 hours. Significantly increases operating cost on this unit. I had estimated it at about $2-2:25 per hour, For fuel and oil change every 150 miles.

Probably won't stop me from running it when needed but at least I am aware of the costs.

Let keep us updated.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by RVermont

Ouch. $1000 bucks every 1000 hours. Significantly increases operating cost on this unit. I had estimated it at about $2-2:25 per hour, For fuel and oil change every 150 miles.

Probably won't stop me from running it when needed but at least I am aware of the costs.

Let keep us updated.

That was our first thought two years ago... and then we looked at the total cost to operate... the first thing we found was that it uses far less fuel than they advertised. We factored in doing the Oil/Filter/Air Filter/Fuel filter ourselves, that costs about $100 in parts when you change them all @500-hr intervals, and about $40 at 150-hr intervals.

Then we look at the Genny as a critical part of our ability to work on the road... then $3-hr overall cost to be able to work in places like Flaming Gorge, Grand Tetons, Jackson Hole, New Orleans, Miami and all places in-between - it is well worth the expense!

One thing we noticed with the level II service along with the coolant flush/replacement, is they suggest replacing the coolant pump belt and coolant sensor at every 1000-hrs (or 5 years). Knowing how Coolant can deteriorate over time/use, I think we are going to have all of that stuff done while they have it out.

We estimated the fuel consumption on just the genny:
We fueled up right before spending 8-days on the beach, ran the genny about 10-12hrs a day running our Seneca and our friends 5th wheel plugged into our extra 20-A circuit - and only put 30 gallons into the Seneca before heading home. The weather was in the high 80's - low 90's F and the AC ran a lot.

All of these long term camping trips would not have been possible to work from, without putting some hours on that genny. (the walmart stop was a one night layover getting to Florida - Dinner and Breakfast courtesy of the Onan QD)

[Oma/opa]

I have been looking on line and cannot find any specifics on a "Level II" service. Is there any published information/recommended service items for this?

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Oma/opa

I have been looking on line and cannot find any specifics on a "Level II" service. Is there any published information/recommended service items for this?

Same here... and why I posted this thread. Even when I called the Onan service center, they did not have anything they could point me to as far as what is exactly included in the L-II service, but had more details on the L-I service.

[Oma/opa]

Where does the "Level I, Level II terminology come from? I cannot find anything using that terminology. I doesn't show up in any documentation I have on servicing the QD 8000 generator

[SloPoke]

When I was talking to the tech at Onan who takes the appointments, He referred the service appointments as Level I or Level II. The actual service tech that does the Level II service was out for the long holiday weekend (his vacation) and was not available to give me a better explanation.

The appointment tech said that the Level I service included Oil/Oil-Filter change, inspection of the air-filter and optional Fuel Filter replacement if it was needed. He did not know much information on the Level II service as he had not seen one yet (he was fairly new).

He said there was no mention of the coolant flush / replacement on the Level I service - and told me he thought it was part of the Level II service that required that the Genny be bench-serviced. He explained that they have to remove the genny from the MH so that they can remove the cover panels to access those parts - and the R/R of the genny was part of the higher cost. I'll be able to get more information on Thursday when the tech returns from Vacation. Hopefully we can get it in for this service next week too!

[RVermont]

Steve I totally agree with the you. The generator is invaluable for off grid and driving comfort. I was just a little surprised at the cost of this service. But it is what it is and If I am going worry about every dollar, I picked the wrong lifestyle. À

Rv geeks have a good video of this service with the exeption of the belt change. Their unit is on a slide out and can be serviced in place but it shows what is involved with the service

[SloPoke]

We have an appointment for next week. I got to talk to the tech that does the work and he explained the service in greater detail.

Since our QD is in a side compartment, they have no access to get to the interior and they remove all units for this type service. The bring the Genny inside and they attach it to a fixture at their workbench. They perform all of the scheduled maintenance (Air/Oil/Fuel filters, Oil, coolant Flush and Coolant, Spark Arrestor and inspection) They also take the covers off and inspect the belt, hoses, adjust the valves and bench-test the unit.

He said that most owners opt-in for changing the belt, hoses and coolant sensor as most of the labor cost is already covered. He did mention that most of the units that they get for a L-II service are 10-years old or more and that ours might not really need hoses or a belt for a few more years - they will know at the inspection / bench test.

[Dirty Dave]

Have a Gulf Stream Endura with a 5500 Onan and last year had some issues. I called my Onan dealer to be told they charge the same rate on the Onan as a Cummins and really don’t like to work on these little “devils” as they are a pain.

I approached a friend and we decided to do the job ourselves and began by lowering the unit to determine that the fuel, battery and electric lines were not long enough to allow the unit to be removed. We detached each and rolled the unit completely out and placed on a work bench.

After making a visual inspection, the necessary parts were ordered but NO Onan parts were used. The air and oil filter was crossed over to Wix. The fuel filer and fuel pump was removed from under the radiator and placed outside the generator box at the rear and the fuel lines were relocated to accommodate this change. The fuel filter was replaced with a Wix inline filter and pump was a generic brand.

No fuel pressure gauge or water temp gauge was installed by the factory, thus, a “T” was placed in both the lines and a separate gauge was installed in the inside control panel. Now immediately can determine oil pressure and coolant temp.

While changing the coolant, it was discovered one of the hoses had a deep cut where it had rubbed against a metal brace. The hoses, coolant, water pump inspected, belt replaced and thermostat was replaced. It was discovered that coolant could not be added to the filler tank without taking the end of the housing loose. This was modified cutting a small piece off allowing access to the tank.

The belt between the gen and the engine was also replaced.

The battery lead was lengthened along with the large wires that carry current to the house. As well the fuel supply and return required lengthening. This allows the gen to be connected as if it was back in the compartment but allow us to start it and observe its operation.

While running, it was discovered a large blow back of exhaust being sucked back into the engine compartment and being blown back thru the radiator. Metal plates were fabricated to block these openings meaning the only air allowed to enter the engine compartment was from the designed opening. In order to get the hot air that exits the radiator dispersed, a metal chase was formed and bolted to the outside of the gen box and directs the hot air 3 inches below the box.

One of the major issues we had to address was the ruptured oil filler tube. According to Onan, they knew the hose would not work with oil but they used it anyway and continued to sell the same hose as replacement. We removed the rubber hose and replaced it with an oil accommodating hose and ran the end out the front of the box instead of the side.

Before sliding the unit back in the compartment, we covered the walls and ceiling with aluminum covered board with is used to make air ducts. Also cover the sides and top of the gen box. Several gen models have a 3 piece front, so we cut the front into 3 pieces and fabricated metal straps to but the pieces together. In the event, that one is required to gain access, the front panels can be removed without taking it out.

While running the gen, one of the wires came of the back of one of the breakers. We discovered the side of the gen box must be removed to access these wires. Each of the wires connected to the two breakers was lengthened and the breakers and wires were ran out side the gen box. If a wire comes off now, it can easily be reattached.

Also discovered Kubota tractor dealers have some parts that will interchange.

The exhaust pipe was modified by running a long extension to under the front bumper.

No issues since these additions and fabrications and certainly less than $1000. Probably spent maybe $250 for parts and supplies and 2 days of time.

[javamon]

Originally Posted by SloPoke

We have an appointment for next week. I got to talk to the tech that does the work and he explained the service in greater detail.

Since our QD is in a side compartment, they have no access to get to the interior and they remove all units for this type service. The bring the Genny inside and they attach it to a fixture at their workbench. They perform all of the scheduled maintenance (Air/Oil/Fuel filters, Oil, coolant Flush and Coolant, Spark Arrestor and inspection) They also take the covers off and inspect the belt, hoses, adjust the valves and bench-test the unit.

He said that most owners opt-in for changing the belt, hoses and coolant sensor as most of the labor cost is already covered. He did mention that most of the units that they get for a L-II service are 10-years old or more and that ours might not really need hoses or a belt for a few more years - they will know at the inspection / bench test.

Don't forget the cooling system thermostat. The gen definitely has to be removed to replace the thermostat. Personally, I think their scheduled maintenance reccs are gross overkill and for the benefit of generating revenue for their service departments. The oil, filters and coolant can all be done easily w/o removing the unit and are easy DIY projects.

[Dirty Dave]

Most Class C's I have seen have the gen in a side compartment that require it to be removed for service. I have not seen any that are on a slide out because the unit requires to be dropped several inches to clear the compartment before it can be removed.
Yes, some of the filters to include air and oil can be changed without removal, my fuel filter and fuel pump were under the radiator forcing removal. After removing and changing the location of the fuel filter and fuel pump, they can be changed in place. By extending the fuel lines and electrical lines, I can simply drop my unit, roll it from under the compartment and perform any work without disconnection anything except the exhaust and fully test it there instead of being required to move it to a bench.
It has worked very well for me. The non Onan filters Wix have worked great.

From my observations, the gen business is a money maker for Cummins especially their expensive parts not to mention the labor rate and large number of hours required or charged for basically easy jobs.
Good Luck in dealing with Cummins.

[SloPoke]

Dave and Dave,

I have been doing the scheduled maintenance so far myself. Oil, Oil-Filter, Fuel-Filter, Air-Filter, coolant check as all of these are easily accessible from the bottom or side of the unit.

I look at this very much like the scheduled maintenance on a typical Silverado pickup. You have the regular oil/filter changes every 3,000 miles (similar to a Level I service on the Onan) and then Chevy has you perform additional service at 25k miles and then at 50k mi, 100k and so on. That sort of aligns with a schedule II service every 2,4,6 year intervals.


Section 7 in the manual below:
https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam...ado_owners.pdf

[tjbroussard]

Seems like a welder could fab a slide out tray for our Senecas to facilitate easier service.

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by tjbroussard

Seems like a welder could fab a slide out tray for our Senecas to facilitate easier service.

Very interesting concept! I will have to see if I can come up with something in the Spring. One would have to make part of the door support framework removeable and ensure all the connected wires and hoses have enough slack. But all possible I think!