Seneca inverter update

[burfdog]

Morning forum
Have a 2013 Seneca 36FK we bought last September from estate sale. Love the Super C and the way in handles. Made a couple short trips and as others have found not all the plugs work on the inverter. Especially the frig. We want to upgrade the Xantrex 1800 to a 3000 watt inverter and house batteries to AGMs. One day upgrading to domestic frig. Have read through entire threads on upgrades but haven’t seen solid answer to this. Can the stock transfer switch handle the upgrade ? Has anyone changed the plug for refrigerator so it runs on inverter?

[SloPoke]

Welcome new Seneca owner to the JOF and the Seneca family.

We have a 2015 36FK and will assume that your rig has the same electrical setup as ours.

Our inverter powers a separate three breaker panel that is in the bedroom next to the main power panel. The Xantrex feeds this mini-panel which has two 15A and one 20A breakers. The 20A feeds the outlet above the Microwave, the other two 15A circuits feed the TV's in the rig and the outlet in the cabinet that holds the Satelite / TV equipment. Nothing else is powered by the Inverteer.

If you are contemplating putting a Residential fridge in, you will have to find power behind the fridge for the fridge. The outlet the fridge is using is powered by a circuit back to the main power panel.

[burfdog]

Thank you SloPoke
I’ll will have to look at my panels. Do you know if there is room to move the refrigerator line over to small panel so it’s on inverter? Is this a possibility? So much to learn. ��

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by burfdog

Thank you SloPoke
I’ll will have to look at my panels. Do you know if there is room to move the refrigerator line over to small panel so it’s on inverter? Is this a possibility? So much to learn. ��

As ours is... the panel only has three spaces for circuit breakers... they are all taken. If you decide to reconfigure the output with a new Inverter - you might be able to try something different - or maybe keep the current inverter for the Micro/TV and add an additional inverter just for the fridge (what you wish to expand the coverage for)

[burfdog]

Thank you for quick response. Ill look into the double inverter option.

[david a judd]

SloPoke,

I have owned my 2014 Seneca 36FK for about 9 months. I cannot seem to get any 110V outlets to work on the inverter. Does the switch in the control panel turn on the inverter to power up the outlets for the TV's and will the microwave work on the inverter? Sorry for the dumb questions but I purchased my rig used and did not get a user's manual.

[SloPoke]

Assuming you have the Xantrex unit like our 2015 - that has to be turned on. The display will show you voltage of the battery and power being consumed. That will feed the small breaker panel (picture below)

One 20A breaker is the feed, the other is for the Microwave and the 15A is for all of the TV's. None of the remaining outlets in our Seneca work on the Inverter (Only the TV's and Microwave)

If you want the remaining outlets to be powered, you must connect shore power, or start your Generator.

[david a judd]

Thanks SloPoke,

I figured out the inverter situation. Now I can use the microwave and the TV's when dry camping before I start the generator, but the microwave keeps going beeping like it does when you first power up, so I have to figure that one out too. Also, another question; I think it is my CONVERTER that is buzzing when I am plugged into shore power. Something behind the 12V fuse panel is making a racket that is so loud it keeps me awake. I just shut down the breaker at the post when we go to bed. Any ideas what that might be?

[SloPoke]

Does that same buzzing noise occur when you disconnect shore power and are running on Generator?

There is a Transfer Switch next to the breaker panel behind the (converter / battery charging) panel. That has caused a loud buzzing for us when we had power issues with the transfer switch. Can you isolate exactly where the buzzing is coming from? From the bottom of the Breaker panel where the fans are running? or elsewhere?

[whporwil]

I don't know how old this post is but this is what I did. I installed a residential fridge in our 2017 37 rb. the wire runs from the fridge to the panel right behind our inverter panel. I disconnected it at the panel and shorten the wire so it fit to the inverter. I replaced the breaker on the inverter panel with one the same size (width and amp) but with two switches. I know we were lucky with our layout, but black stainless looks so much better, our opinion

[Les7h]

In our 2016 HJ when we replaced the refrigerator with a residential we switched the inverted microwave plug and the refrigerator plug ( very easy with the refrigerator out of place ) now the microwave requires the generator but the refrigerator is on our inverter Les

[Cavie]

You can add the fridge to the Inverter panel. You need to remove one of the full sized breakers and install a twin breaker. That two breakers in the space of one. But the inverter has to be of sufficient size to run everything connected to it unless you are very good at load management. you can wire it as in post #11. You can also put the micro wave and the fridge on the same breaker with a relay to prevent both running at the same time.

[david a judd]

SloPoke,
I was finally able to get around to checking the source of the noise. I pulled out the right hand drawer and the transfer relay is right there. I used a mechanic’s stethoscope to confirm this was the component making the buzzing noise. I unplugged from shore power and it stopped. The coach is parked in my garage so I did not power up the generator to see if the noise continues. And suggestions? Do I need to replace the converter?

[Cavie]

Us the wife's metal nail file. Access the contact points in the xfer switch and file them down smooth. Go to the store and by a new nail file for the wife.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Cavie

Us the wife's metal nail file. Access the contact points in the xfer switch and file them down smooth. Go to the store and by a new nail file for the wife.

The contacts are not accessible - these relays are not what you would expect, they are enclosed three-pole. Actually two of them side by side and crammed into the housing. They show they are rated at 50A, but that would be stretching it to say they can switch with a load.

Nothing close to a good SqD motor Contactor of the same rating where the contacts are accessible to remove carbon.

Originally Posted by david a judd

SloPoke,
I was finally able to get around to checking the source of the noise. I pulled out the right hand drawer and the transfer relay is right there. I used a mechanic’s stethoscope to confirm this was the component making the buzzing noise. I unplugged from shore power and it stopped. The coach is parked in my garage so I did not power up the generator to see if the noise continues. And suggestions? Do I need to replace the converter?

Have you verified what your actual voltage is at the plug you are connected to with your Seneca? Have you measured the voltage across both legs of the power with the Seneca plugged in?

If the power is above 120V with the Seneca connected, I would point to the Transfer Switch - but we had encountered a power pedestal that checked out 120V when there was no load, but once there was a load (the Seneca plugged in) that dropped way below 120V and the Transfer Switch went buzzing (like you describe) and would not pull the contacts of the Transfer Switch Relay in.

IMPORTANT: IF YOU do not feel qualified to work on LIVE ELECTRICAL - Have a Qualified person with the correct test equipment do this for you, and test the line voltage at the Transfer Switch on the Line Side. You should have both legs measured to neutral.

[david a judd]

I have a multi-meter and feel pretty comfortable with residential electrical. The plug measures 118V on each side and 236V across both leads. It is a 50A 240V receptacle on a separate breaker in my motorhome garage. I have a 200 A service on a separate meter for the garage. So I'm pretty confident I have enough incoming power. Don't know how to check the voltage coming into the ATS inside the coach, but my guess is I would have to pull the cover off the transfer switch. Looking at he close quarters, the thought of it gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[SloPoke]

pulling the cover is just a 1/4 hex head screw- Just loosen it, don't remove it. The cover pulls off easily.

There are a few pictures of the relays on Etrailer site (I don't have a good one)
https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...s/PD52DCS.html

The terminals to measure are on the top of the relay.

AGAIN, If you do not feel that you are qualified to test this with power energized - Have a qualified person with the proper tools to do this for you..

[david a judd]

SloPoke,

I emailed Precision Dynamics about the problem and Andy Giesen responded that the PC52 has AC contactors inside and they tend to make noise; sometimes over time and sometimes immediately right out of the box. He recommended a PD52DCSD which has DC contactors and they are quiet, with the added benefit of a surge protector. It is a direct replacement for my Automatic Transfer Switch. Precision Dynamics are wholesale only So Andy me to Leisure Time Distributing. I ordered the unit on line and they shipped it to me FedEx same day! So I think I can R & R ATS with the power off without too much trouble. I will take some pictures and start a new post when I replace the unit.