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Old 12-13-2015, 07:13 AM   #1
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Seneca Questions

Greetings folks. The family and I have gotten back into camping this past year with a Fuzion Toy Hauler and while we like it, I am getting the itch to go with a MH as that is how I grew up camping with the grandparents.

I am very interested in the Seneca line as a Super C is likely the route to go for us for several reasons (diesel, Freightliner Chassis, safety, size). I cannot even fit real well in a regular C class MH and since I cannot see ever buying another gas truck again (Ram 3500 with Cummins now), I am not real excited about 6mpg sucking wind climbing mountain roads in west va with a gas Class C...so I was looking for some real world info on the recent Seneca lineup:

1) What is realistic MPG? I average about 10mpg with a 27k CGVW (over 5000 miles this year) with my setup now and wonder if something around that is realistic with a Seneca?

2) Real world weight of rig? Looks like the GVWR is 28k..what is real world weight when you got your Seneca (before stocked up for the road). I am concerned with being too close to GVWR once loaded up...something that can easily happen on most RV's

3) Tow rating - they claim 10k tow rating...this doesnt seem realistic when looking at the combined GVWR of the Seneca..unless you had nothing inside the MH at all...thoughts? I would be towing either a Mini van for a Toad, or a trailer with RZR's and quads when we go to west va

4) Freightliner M2 Chassis - I am assuming this is a huge step up in driving performance over a ford/chevy chassis? I am guessing it would drive a LOT better in twisty mountain roads (we go to west va atv'ing and those roads are not for faint of heart..some can be 11-13% grades and very, very twisty). A rolling, lazy feeling chassis wouldnt be my cup of tea here

5) How accessible is everything while driving down the road? I have noticed that with more and more slideouts, that some MH's seem very, very tight with the slides closed going down the road. The whole reason for a MH over our 2015 Fuzion Toy Hauler would be convenience while under way (8 and 5 year old boys)...ie the vacation starts when we leave the driveway vs when we pull into our first camping stop).

I understand a diesel class c needs to be driven and used and wouldnt do well sitting around in storage much and that wouldnt be an issue as we spent 44 nights in our Fuzion since April of this year, so we will use it...I am also assuming maintenance costs will be a good bit higher with a MH vs our Toy Hauler...is there anything else I am missing as far as differences between the two? Thanks for any real world advice or info you can give...seems Super C info is not as readily available as DP Class A
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:35 AM   #2
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Try here as well.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SuperCrvgroup/info
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:38 AM   #3
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Ahh...nice! Thanks for the link. I will check it out
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:03 AM   #4
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We purchased a 2015 Seneca FS in April and have put about 6,000 miles on it, which included a 44 day 4,000 mile trip thru the southeast U.S. this summer. In answer to your questions:

1, 2 & 3: our summer trip included 3 adults and 1 child pulling a 4 door Jeep Wrangler. Fully loaded for the trip with full fuel in both vehicles our total CAT scale readings were about 27,000 lbs including the Jeep at about 4,500 lbs. Mileage varied from 8.3 to 10.5 depending on wind, grade, etc.

4: Driving was a much better experience than our previous 5th wheel. We typically set the cruise control at 62-65 mph. We didn't hit any grades greater than 6%, but it managed those well; downshifted as appropriate to keep the rpms at about 1600-1800, engine brake was great on the downhills. We fill at truck stops to take advantage of the dual fill pumps.

5: No access problems while driving; however I have a general rule that everyone stays buckled in. We use rest/fuel stops for movement inside the vehicle.

In general, I like the Super C design vs a Class A. For service we've been able to get in to Freightliner much quicker than if we had a Class A.

Hope this helps....
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:03 AM   #5
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:44 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Watt View Post
We purchased a 2015 Seneca FS in April and have put about 6,000 miles on it, which included a 44 day 4,000 mile trip thru the southeast U.S. this summer. In answer to your questions:



1, 2 & 3: our summer trip included 3 adults and 1 child pulling a 4 door Jeep Wrangler. Fully loaded for the trip with full fuel in both vehicles our total CAT scale readings were about 27,000 lbs including the Jeep at about 4,500 lbs. Mileage varied from 8.3 to 10.5 depending on wind, grade, etc.



4: Driving was a much better experience than our previous 5th wheel. We typically set the cruise control at 62-65 mph. We didn't hit any grades greater than 6%, but it managed those well; downshifted as appropriate to keep the rpms at about 1600-1800, engine brake was great on the downhills. We fill at truck stops to take advantage of the dual fill pumps.



5: No access problems while driving; however I have a general rule that everyone stays buckled in. We use rest/fuel stops for movement inside the vehicle.



In general, I like the Super C design vs a Class A. For service we've been able to get in to Freightliner much quicker than if we had a Class A.



Hope this helps....


Thanks so much. That is exactly what I was looking for. Seems you were over 5000 under the combined wr, so no worries it seems overloading it easily. Also seems the Seneca is kind of a specialty Rv...not a lot to compare it with (In similar price range). Mpg is about what I expected/hoped to hear as there is not much difference between my setup and yours going down the road (13ft tall, 27k lbs, cummins motor etc). Cummins exhaust break is awesome...can't imagine mountain driving with a gasser and our weights).

We love our Fuzion th and I love my truck (daily driver also) but I think the Seneca (or similar) would be a a better fit for us. The 12ft garage on our th makes for a great kids room and bunkhouse, but it quickly becomes a pita when loading up dirty rzr or quads into the garage after a weekend of riding. Having them on my aluma trailer behind the Rv (keeping the mess out of the Rv) seems a lot more attractive to me.

Thanks again for the info. It helps a lot!
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:45 AM   #7
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Thank you!
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Old 12-13-2015, 10:20 AM   #8
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I don't own one, but my research seemed to indicate it was a solid choice. However, I primarily liked the 2016 version because of the air brakes and air ride seats. As mentioned, there is an engine service time/location advantage with the engine placement compared to a diesel pusher Class A, which has always been a draw for me, but that is just one of the compromises one makes in any mh purchase and the regular Class A's do get worked on even if it takes a bit more planning, but size does matter as well.

I probably won't get one simply because I can easily buy a used premium dp for half the price or less, since I have the cash to spend, but that is the same argument for me as to new dp Class A. I can do my own house repairs so I don't put much value on a warranty and am happy to be able to take advantages of the minimal downsides of the depreciation loss of others, assuming the vehicle has been well maintained.

There are a few options I don't see being able to upgrade the Seneca to, for example front air bags, air leveling, and hydronic heating. Some, after purchase, have put in a traditional Atwood water heater, not being fully happy with the tankless water heater option.

I don't believe the aftermarket front air bags are quite the best value as you still keep your basic truck front end. I'm guessing that is why Seneca went with the next best choice = air ride seats.
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Old 12-13-2015, 10:30 AM   #9
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I don't own one, but my research seemed to indicate it was a solid choice. However, I primarily liked the 2016 version because of the air brakes and air ride seats. As mentioned, there is an engine service time/location advantage with the engine placement compared to a diesel pusher Class A, which has always been a draw for me, but that is just one of the compromises one makes in any mh purchase and the regular Class A's do get worked on even if it takes a bit more planning, but size does matter as well.

I probably won't get one simply because I can easily buy a used premium dp for half the price or less, since I have the cash to spend, but that is the same argument for me as to new dp Class A. I can do my own house repairs so I don't put much value on a warranty and am happy to be able to take advantages of the minimal downsides of the depreciation loss of others, assuming the vehicle has been well maintained.

There are a few options I don't see being able to upgrade the Seneca to, for example front air bags, air leveling, and hydronic heating. Some, after purchase, have put in a traditional Atwood water heater, not being fully happy with the tankless water heater option.

I don't believe the aftermarket front air bags are quite the best value as you still keep your basic truck front end. I'm guessing that is why Seneca went with the next best choice = air ride seats.
Interesting..I didnt realize the 2015 didnt have the air ride (rear) and air seats up front. I wish there were more options out there for a diesel class c on a heavier chassis (ie not a 3500 chevy or ford chassis). Thanks for the info. Looks like I have a lot of research to be doing
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Old 12-13-2015, 10:50 AM   #10
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I don't think I said anything about what the 2015 had or did not have.

I believe the 2015 does have rear suspension air bags which has been there since the new design. I think a couple of forum members mentioned that the ride without air ride seats has been comparable to some of the DPs they had experience with. So, the ride is good enough, regardless.

I'm mostly focused on the air leveling aspects, sorry if that was not clear, and I think you need air bags front and rear to accomplish that.

When my wife and I take off, WE will probably be traveling fairly constantly for several months at a time if not longer. The dog will come as well. I think the choices are largely driven by usage and need. I think we will also do some international traveling from time to time, so reducing my mh investment has several benefits.'

I have this nagging belief that some owners are very tightly pushed financially and for time, but with enough credit. The number of low mileage DPs out there are mentally staggering to me. Thank goodness for trucks...they naturally take those owners to 5th and tts.
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Old 12-13-2015, 12:47 PM   #11
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gtsum2, my 2 cents…

The power to weight ratio of the Seneca is much higher than my previous DP with same engine/trans. Better fuel mileage, lots of towing capacity. My weights are in Seneca so can't be specific now but consistent with other post.

In DP posted MPH on curves was absolute max or you would really feel lean…big time. Senenca is order of magnitude better.

Maint in diesel MH is much higher. Normal in my DP was circa $1K annually. M2 should be a little cheaper. Will find out soon as in for 6 month Cummins service. Normal service interval is 1 year as RVers don't travel that many miles.

Ride is slightly rougher than DP but 2016's with Bilsteins up front should help. Cab comfort vs class A is way better - AC actually cools, heater actual heats.

I selected the 36FK as we wanted the enclosed bath, linen closet, pantry and no galley slide. I can access everything with slides in except bedroom (sm wife can squeeze in) main TV and fireplace. We have camped with just the BR slide extended..there is lots of room in LR/galley area with slide in.

Jayco replaced the hw heater as it was ineffective at high altitudes (gas only).

In Senecas where the bed slides under the closet furniture, mattress height is limited to about 7" (clearance is 8"). As a result the mattress is only suitable for about one week. After that it's like a hammock and very uncomfortable. There is no easy replacement option because of the height limitation. Major irritant right now until I find a solution. SUggest floor plans where bed does not slide under closet…HJ for example.
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Old 12-13-2015, 01:26 PM   #12
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We traded up to a 2015 FK from an E-450-based gasser. Mileage has averaged 8.7 over ~7500 miles this year, with 10.4 being the highest. We tow a Honda CR-V and usually can't tell it's there. We travel a lot between our home in Columbus, OH and the Carolinas. The Seneca does well through the WV / VA mountains, although I have found the cruise reluctant to downshift - a quick stomp on the gas pedal resolves that. As others have mentioned, the engine brake is great on the downhills.

Ride is pretty good - it does have airbags in the rear and leaf springs in the front. The 2016 should indeed be better. The key is to get your actual weights and adjust tire pressure accordingly. Running at the 110 max will result in a pretty rough ride. I keep ours around 100 psi based on our weights and the ride is much better.

Accessibility while underway is good - DW usually sits in the back with our three labs while I drive. We have the entertainment center in the overhead bunk and that TV is hooked up to the inverter (can be used while underway with a slight modification to the selenoid attached to the back of the outlet ) for enroute entertainment.

Overall, we love the Seneca and it meets our needs quite well. I do have to agree with one of the previous posters about the mattress - it sucks, and the whole sliding under the closet thing limits the options. We'll be looking at a foam mattress replacement soon. Oh, and I happen to be a fan of the tankless water heater, although I can understand why some don't like it.

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Old 12-13-2015, 01:36 PM   #13
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gtsum2, my 2 cents…

The power to weight ratio of the Seneca is much higher than my previous DP with same engine/trans. Better fuel mileage, lots of towing capacity. My weights are in Seneca so can't be specific now but consistent with other post.

In DP posted MPH on curves was absolute max or you would really feel lean…big time. Senenca is order of magnitude better.

Maint in diesel MH is much higher. Normal in my DP was circa $1K annually. M2 should be a little cheaper. Will find out soon as in for 6 month Cummins service. Normal service interval is 1 year as RVers don't travel that many miles.

Ride is slightly rougher than DP but 2016's with Bilsteins up front should help. Cab comfort vs class A is way better - AC actually cools, heater actual heats.

I selected the 36FK as we wanted the enclosed bath, linen closet, pantry and no galley slide. I can access everything with slides in except bedroom (sm wife can squeeze in) main TV and fireplace. We have camped with just the BR slide extended..there is lots of room in LR/galley area with slide in.

Jayco replaced the hw heater as it was ineffective at high altitudes (gas only).

In Senecas where the bed slides under the closet furniture, mattress height is limited to about 7" (clearance is 8"). As a result the mattress is only suitable for about one week. After that it's like a hammock and very uncomfortable. There is no easy replacement option because of the height limitation. Major irritant right now until I find a solution. SUggest floor plans where bed does not slide under closet…HJ for example.
Thank you very much for the detailed info. I appreciate the info on the driving characteristics of the dp vs the seneca. I am certainly no speed demon when going camping, but one thing I do not like at all on some gas class a's is the wallowing, floating and leaning sensation when driving them...plus it is very easy to overload them as they seem awful heavy compared to their gvwr (much like my Chrome 345 toy hauler).


The 37HJ is the one I am looking at as I dont want bunk beds even though kids are 8 and almost 5...they will be wanting to sleep up top I am sure. We just bought our 2015 Fuzion last year, but we got such a good deal on it (46% off) , I am not too worried about selling it so soon for a new one. I need to go look at one in person, but they are hard to find around here. The rv show is coming up in january or february I think so we will certainly look hard then. Thanks again!
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Old 12-13-2015, 01:39 PM   #14
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We traded up to a 2015 FK from an E-450-based gasser. Mileage has averaged 8.7 over ~7500 miles this year, with 10.4 being the highest. We tow a Honda CR-V and usually can't tell it's there. We travel a lot between our home in Columbus, OH and the Carolinas. The Seneca does well through the WV / VA mountains, although I have found the cruise reluctant to downshift - a quick stomp on the gas pedal resolves that. As others have mentioned, the engine brake is great on the downhills.

Ride is pretty good - it does have airbags in the rear and leaf springs in the front. The 2016 should indeed be better. The key is to get your actual weights and adjust tire pressure accordingly. Running at the 110 max will result in a pretty rough ride. I keep ours around 100 psi based on our weights and the ride is much better.

Accessibility while underway is good - DW usually sits in the back with our three labs while I drive. We have the entertainment center in the overhead bunk and that TV is hooked up to the inverter (can be used while underway with a slight modification to the selenoid attached to the back of the outlet ) for enroute entertainment.

Overall, we love the Seneca and it meets our needs quite well. I do have to agree with one of the previous posters about the mattress - it sucks, and the whole sliding under the closet thing limits the options. We'll be looking at a foam mattress replacement soon. Oh, and I happen to be a fan of the tankless water heater, although I can understand why some don't like it.

Ty
Good stuff. Thank you for sharing your experiences...I am searching for one to see somewhat nearby
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Old 12-17-2015, 12:14 AM   #15
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My 37RB weighs 23K ready to hit the road, tow a 24ft enclosed trailer full of quads, dirt bikes and XP900 that weighs 8K with 1100lbs tounge weight. I live at 3500' elevation so all my travel includes grades. I average 9.5MPG as the rig does pretty good dealing with both up and down the hills. I did I install the 60MM Bilstein front shocks, run the tires at 85PSI ride is great, wind has no effect on handling. M2 is awesome.
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:16 AM   #16
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My 37RB weighs 23K ready to hit the road, tow a 24ft enclosed trailer full of quads, dirt bikes and XP900 that weighs 8K with 1100lbs tounge weight. I live at 3500' elevation so all my travel includes grades. I average 9.5MPG as the rig does pretty good dealing with both up and down the hills. I did I install the 60MM Bilstein front shocks, run the tires at 85PSI ride is great, wind has no effect on handling. M2 is awesome.

Thanks for the info. I have looked at some dp's and the more I look at them, the more I keep coming back to the Seneca. I like the engine upfront, like the layout, and like not having to worry about overloading it with people and gear and not being limited (within reason) as to what I can tow. I have a rzr 1000 and kids have quads we would be towing, so glad to hear of your experiences. I am going to look hard at getting into one in the spring.
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:17 AM   #17
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Ps. Love that pic!! Little different terrain than we ride out here on the east coast!
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Old 12-17-2015, 08:27 AM   #18
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Good luck with your search. Those RZR1000's are awesome.
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