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Old 01-08-2022, 03:30 PM   #21
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Here is something interesting to share, as I was reading and catching up on the thread I reminded myself that Michelin published (which I couldn't find) a guide for tire inspections and one of the points was regarding the size of the cracks in the rubber, what I remember was that little cracks are not a concern however if they get large enough to put a dime in the crack then for sure replace the tires, regardless of age, now they state to measure the crack depth and less than 1/32" is good and deeper than 2/32" replace.

In any case, I was looking for that PDF to share and found this one which is a good read, what I found interesting is what was mentioned earlier in the thread regarding how electromagnetic radiation is bad for tires (rubber), I never had read that from a company like Michelin though, but in this pdf they do. Check out the tire protection points # 6 and 7 in particular.

1) Keep the tires properly inflated.
2) Keep the tires clean.
3) Avoid prolonged exposure to heat, cold, or moisture.
4) Avoid prolonged exposure to ultraviolet rays.
5) Cover the tires when the vehicle is not in use.
6) Do not park near electric generators or transformers.
7) Do not store vehicle in an area where welding is being
done or in a garage that has mercury vapor lamps.

Have you ever parked near a transformer in the RV park and thought about your tires? This pdf doesn't go into detail as to why that is an issue, the previous link I shared does go deeper into the subject, still not overly deep in regards to electromagnetic radiation. I would suggest (but I have never seen any for sale) that aluminum foil lined tire covers would be very helpful in this regard.

https://rvsafety.net/Manuals/Micheli...dInflation.pdf

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Old 01-08-2022, 03:59 PM   #22
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guide for tire inspections and one of the points was regarding the size of the cracks in the rubber, what I remember was that little cracks are not a concern however if they get large enough to put a dime in the crack then for sure replace the tires, regardless of age, now they state to measure the crack depth and less than 1/32" is good and deeper than 2/32" replace.
If I see a crack in a tire, it's gone. If I can put a dime in the crack, I wouldn't even dare drive it to the tire store. There better be a mobile tire replacerguy in town.....LOL.
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Old 01-08-2022, 04:34 PM   #23
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If I see a crack in a tire, it's gone. If I can put a dime in the crack, I wouldn't even dare drive it to the tire store. There better be a mobile tire replacerguy in town.....LOL.
Michelin's guidance was about a crack wider than the width of a dime (~.05" which is right between 1/32" and 2/32"), so width not depth.

Here is a link from the irv2 forums that show the crack sizes, however I wouldn't go by the width only and consider the crack depth as a better check (based on the last link shared) although like gypsmjim stated, any cracks could be concerning enough to change out the tires, especially those tires have many years of age on them. For me both a crack's width and depth will be what I watch for and hopefully I don't see either for a while yet. Mine appear crack free last check a few months back.

https://www.irv2.com/photopost/showp...hp?photo=13769

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Old 01-08-2022, 04:47 PM   #24
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It is unlikely to get a blanket recommendation because the manufacturer has no way to know how you will abuse them.
Trailers are subjected to stresses that do not exist on a motor vehicle.
In the last 50+ years I've never had a tire on a car or PU blow. I've lost tread or noticed a bubble, never a blowout.
My TT tire blew a tire with great tread at just under 5 years. I lucked out on the trailer damage, just some torn wires and broken plywood. I replaced all four of them at that time, originally planning on replacement at 5 years. Talk to a Discount Tire Pro and he can probably tell you why trailers are different.
My boat trailer blew a tire at just over 4 years. It only bent the fender. I replaced both.

Check out https://www.discounttire.com/learn/w...-replace-tires
and
https://www.discounttire.com/learn/tire-aging
One reason that trailer tires are different than vehicles is price. The last tires I bought for my truck were $200 each and that was the cheaper option. New trailer tires are going to cost me $200 for four and that's better than the ones that came on the trailer.
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Old 01-08-2022, 04:50 PM   #25
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For years I've positioned my generator under my trailer, directly behind one of the rear tires. I wonder how much that tire's been affected?
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Old 01-08-2022, 05:13 PM   #26
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For years I've positioned my generator under my trailer, directly behind one of the rear tires. I wonder how much that tire's been affected?
That makes me wonder as well, my last long term lease RV site had a large transformer right next (4~5 feet away from the tires) to the backside of the 5th wheel. One of these testers in the link below may be of value, cheap but should read EMF, however I haven't seen any numbers to know how high of a reading would be an issue. Maybe I will get one just for fun and check the readings around the generator in mine. Perhaps it (the generator) is shielded a bit anyway with the metal around it as I have never looked all that carefully at my generator cabinet box to see if the walls of that box are metallic or wood perhaps. ~CA

https://www.amazon.com/ERICKHILL-Rec...8BLJM28J&psc=1
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Old 01-08-2022, 05:21 PM   #27
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This is a good read for you if you would like to get deeper into the ageing process. (starting at pg 98)

https://www.laroverket.com/wp-conten...d_Products.pdf

"Main factors causing reduction of material life are aerial oxygen, ozone, increased temperature and electromagnetic radiation, in particular from near ultraviolet and visible spectrum part"
...

"Consequently cracks are created across the stress direction. Accrued crack exposes un-attacked rubber and originally small cracks are rapidly increasing. "

In my words, rubber and similar products go through a decay process primarily due to a chemical breakdown known as "Volatile loss". This loss causes shrinkage and as the shrinkage in the rubber occurs cracks form, as the cracks form those cracks allow for further deterioration deeper into the cracks which exposes the rubber deeper and deeper into the tire to the elements that causes the cracks (which is why the cracks get bigger and you have more of them with time). All of this ultimately allows for the tire's support cords to become less protected from the elements which with time and usage these cords (steel belts or other material) can and do fail catastrophically.

Many people have tried and use UV tire protectants which can help, however UV is only one aspect of a tire's rubber compound ageing process and you really can't get it into the tires treads where it will last.

The only true option that could exist (imo) is a different material for the tires and a thought to share is that some tire manufactures actually do use different rubber formulations, however there is always a trade off when doing so such as the hardness of the rubber and its ability to provide comfort and traction.

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The degradation you are talking about is on the surface not the interior structure.
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Old 01-08-2022, 05:53 PM   #28
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As an actual Tire design Engineer with 40+ years experience I believe I can provide some information BUT if you are looking for an answer such as 62 Months 2 weeks and 5 days you are out of luck. It's just not that simple.


Maybe you can tell me, in hours, how long a gal of milk will stay "good". Since you know you can't answer that simple question why do you think the answer for a complex structure such as a tire age should be that simple. Do you think that all 27 basic components age at identical rates?



Most tires fail for one of a couple reasons. You should have read THIS post if you searched on "why tires fail?" I have also covered this in detail in a number of posts on my blog "RV Tire Safety" But We can cover the topic again.


Polymer Cross Link Density is the property that determines how flexible a piece of rubber is. If it is too flexible or elastic it will not hold its shape. If it is not flexible or elastic enough it will develop microscopic cracks. These cracks will grow with every revolution of a tire and also some will grow simply given enough time.


Heat and time will change the cross link density. The rate of change is not linear but doubles with each increase in temperature of 18°F. This means 4 times if it is 36°F hotter or 8 times if the rubber is 54°F hotter. This is why tires that are on RVs that spend most of their life in Southern Tier states like FL, GA, TX, AZ will fail earlier than tires that spend most of their time in ND, MI, NH, ID, OR. But a tire that spends it life in Phoenix will "die" in maybe 4 years an identical tire that spends it's entire life in Flagstaff may live to 8 years. But there are other factors that can have significant effect on tire life.
If we were to put a set of tires on a LT and another identical set on a 4 tire trailer, then load all 8 tires to identical load and inflate to identical level the tires on the trailer may have a life that is 25% to 50% shorter than the tires on the truck. This is due to Interply Shear which is the force in all radial tires at the belt edges that is trying to tear the tire apart from the inside (Google Interply Shear" if you want to see my posts on that topic.


This post is on a Class-C thread but I can guarantee that information published here will be applied to information on a TT thread because people do not understand the significant different forces internal to a tire.


Michelin has published a guide on tire inspection which basically suggests at 5 years the tire be inspected inside and out annually and re-applied if no problems are discovered. BUT they still put a MAXIMUM life on the tire as unless you have "X-Ray" vision the structure can have cracks that are not visible on the tire surface, even not visible on the internal air chamber surface.
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Old 01-08-2022, 06:05 PM   #29
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Even synthetic Amsoil says 1 year.

You might read further in Amsoil and oil changes. Some of their oils can be run 250K or longer with filter changes at certain points. Extended oil change intervals are nothing new.
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Old 01-08-2022, 06:08 PM   #30
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These tire threads are interesting but the fact is it comes down to inspecting your tires and deciding whether you want to chance it for another 300 mile trip on tires that you suspect are not going to make it.



All of this "speculation" is just that and much like standing over the golf ball on a 150 yard chip to the green and getting mind lock. Make up your mind, or go home.
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Old 01-08-2022, 06:16 PM   #31
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Michelin's guidance was about a crack wider than the width of a dime (~.05" which is right between 1/32" and 2/32"), so width not depth.

Here is a link from the irv2 forums that show the crack sizes, however I wouldn't go by the width only and consider the crack depth as a better check (based on the last link shared) although like gypsmjim stated, any cracks could be concerning enough to change out the tires, especially those tires have many years of age on them. For me both a crack's width and depth will be what I watch for and hopefully I don't see either for a while yet. Mine appear crack free last check a few months back.

https://www.irv2.com/photopost/showp...hp?photo=13769

~CA
If you got a crack, period, no matter if its a pittance in width or depth, and you look to a tire manual to see if its acceptable or not...well that's all I'm going to say.

RVs are an expensive hobby. If saving a few hundred bucks in tires is necessary, well, then that's another one.

The last time I saw a tire fail, the RV was right in front of me on the interstate. Everything flipped. Thank god the people didn't get hurt, but there was trash over 3 lanes of highway. The RV was totalled.

As a famous person once said: "Are Ya Feelin Lucky?"
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Old 01-08-2022, 08:00 PM   #32
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If you got a crack, period, no matter if its a pittance in width or depth, and you look to a tire manual to see if its acceptable or not...well that's all I'm going to say.

RVs are an expensive hobby. If saving a few hundred bucks in tires is necessary, well, then that's another one.

The last time I saw a tire fail, the RV was right in front of me on the interstate. Everything flipped. Thank god the people didn't get hurt, but there was trash over 3 lanes of highway. The RV was totalled.

As a famous person once said: "Are Ya Feelin Lucky?"
Don't confuse Michelin's guidance as that of my own. If you disagree with their guidance and documents then I certainly respect that you disagree and I have no concerns at all if you desire to purchase new tires for yours more often than even what the tire manufacture recommends. ~CA
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Old 01-08-2022, 09:12 PM   #33
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What would this tire manf tell you?

What do you think this tire manufacturer would tell you? That the tire sidewall will explode off the tire for no reason? That's what it did. It was 2.5 years old, never used, always covered, personally examined a week and a half earlier when I checked the pressure and set it to 80psi. It was the spare tire mounted to the back of the RV.

No blister, no bump, no visual defect. Now granted it's a China bomb (Trailer King) not a Michelin tire (quality tire). But the point is tires can unexpectedly fail.

The question each of us has to decide is this, is it worth trying to squeak out more usage from a tire considering the risk of damage and the expense of repair?

Personally, I'm going to err on the side of replacing by 4-5yrs if wear doesn't require replacement sooner.
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Old 01-08-2022, 09:28 PM   #34
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That's a major disappointment. It is good that it happened on the carrier, and not on the ground at speed.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:01 AM   #35
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Michelin recommends an inspection by a professional every year beginning at 5 years old.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:09 AM   #36
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Michelin recommends an inspection by a professional every year beginning at 5 years old.
I don't know even one tire guy that I'd trust to do that inspection.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:26 AM   #37
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I don't know even one tire guy that I'd trust to do that inspection.
Hahahahaaha.

I just had a new set of tires installed on my car. When I checked them when I got home the pressures were 35-35-35-51.
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:42 AM   #38
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I emailed good year in regards to this. Their answer is evaluate the tread wear first n foremost if that’s good you check to c if sidewalls are cracking. I specifically asked about the 4-5 year rule I hear in rv circles. They just reiterated what I said above.
even most car tires are End Of Life by 6 years.. I don't believe a reputable tire shop will discuss new tires if they are 7 years old or older...

I think it is different for those big tires on semi's and busses etc... i am only referring to regular trucks...
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:43 AM   #39
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Michelin recommends an inspection by a professional every year beginning at 5 years old.
define "professional"
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:43 AM   #40
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Hahahahaaha.



I just had a new set of tires installed on my car. When I checked them when I got home the pressures were 35-35-35-51.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. When I ask them to check my tires the answer is always that they need to be replaced. They are salesmen, not tire experts.
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