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Old 10-22-2024, 09:55 AM   #1
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Upgrade to Lithium Question

Our current factory batteries are near the end of their life and I’m wanting to upgrade to lithium. I am planning to only upgrade to a single 460ah battery and changing out the BIM to lithium at this time. Later on I will add more solar and upgrade the inverter to either a 3000w Xantrex (most likely) or 3000w Victron (not sure since lots of wiring changes would need to happen??).

With upgrading to a 460ah lithium battery, which is more than double the factory amp hours, would I need to upgrade the current breaker (200 amp) behind the hidden panel in the basement?

Anything else I’m needing to upgrade for the larger battery?

Thanks
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Old 10-22-2024, 10:08 AM   #2
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As long as everything is working fine then you don't need to change any of the breakers. Generally speaking any breaker changes should be considered only after verifying the need and the existing wire size awg rating, instead of the battery's amp hour rating. Changing out the bim to a LI-Bim would be a good thing.

My concern or better stated my suggestion would be to make sure that the physical size of a 460AH battery will fit where you want it to be installed. ~CA
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Old 10-22-2024, 10:42 AM   #3
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No you wouldn’t need to change that breaker, 460ah is your capacity, not your draw. I highly recommend the Victron Multiplus II, if you want your whole coach on the inverter, not more wiring to do. If you are a member of Facebook, there are several posts on converting to lithium lately.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1266...8831639598800/
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Old 10-22-2024, 12:03 PM   #4
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I updated to Lithium in my 2020 37L, and it was one of the best things I ever did. I went with 6 100w all in parallel. Now the prices have dropped such that you are taking the right path with one larger, then perhaps adding another in future.

- Change the BIM, and if your converter in the breaker panel at the foot of the bed has a LA/LI switch, switch it to LI. If it doesn't, I ran for a year on mine with no issues, just takes a bit longer to top off the last 8% or so when plugged in to shore power. Nothin else 'must" be done.

- You do not have to upgrade the fuse until you upgrade the inverter to 3K. I upgraded to a 3K, went with the Xantrex so it would be a direct and easy swap (it was). Two years later, I have more confidence and I wished I would have bit the bullet and gone with the Victron. So many more features, and you can parallel another one later if you want to run full air conditioners.

- I moved by bedroom air conditioner over to the inverter breaker box, and put a soft start on it. Now I can run the back a/c off battery when the need arises. Great for just cooling it off before bedtime when boondocking. it "can" work on your 2k inverter, but 3k will take the worry out of the equation.
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Old 10-23-2024, 09:19 AM   #5
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The battery I’m looking at has a 250 amp BMS. Would I base the breaker size on that?
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Old 10-23-2024, 09:24 AM   #6
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The battery I’m looking at has a 250 amp BMS. Would I base the breaker size on that?
The proper breaker size is based on the wire size in the circuit (not the battery). The battery could be 100AH or 500AH and the breaker size wouldn't change (unless you changed the wiring).

It is certainly possible to pull more amps from a more capable battery such as you are looking at which could power a larger inverter, however to do that you would want to run larger wires from the battery to the inverter than what you may already have, and with that you could use a larger breaker on that circuit. ~CA
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Old 10-23-2024, 12:37 PM   #7
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Typical wire size recommendation for a 2000watt inverter is 2/0 cable, which is about a 200 amp fuse recommendation.

If upgrading to 3000watt inverter, the recommended wire size is 4/0 and typical fuse size recommendation of 300 amps.
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Old 10-23-2024, 02:22 PM   #8
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Two things are being talked about here. Main battery Breaker which the poster asked about but people are also talking about Inverter fuse, two different things. Gibby, the 200 amp breaker in the “hidden” box is actually the Inverter breaker. The wiring diagram pic is blurry when zoomed in, i a also attaching a PDF which is a 6 page document with various coach diagrams, the Seneca/Accolade is on page 6 and yiu can read the breaker sizes when zoomed in.
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Old 10-23-2024, 07:13 PM   #9
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I appreciate all the input.

In the schematic drawing, it shows 1/0 connects the batteries together and runs from batteries to the inverter. However, with mine, it is a larger gauge going from the batteries to the inverter than what connects the batteries together. How do I find what gauge I have for my batteries and to the inverter?
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Old 10-23-2024, 10:04 PM   #10
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I appreciate all the input.

In the schematic drawing, it shows 1/0 connects the batteries together and runs from batteries to the inverter. However, with mine, it is a larger gauge going from the batteries to the inverter than what connects the batteries together. How do I find what gauge I have for my batteries and to the inverter?
If you pull the zip loom off a section of the cable, the gauge will be I printed or embossed on the insulation of the cable. On my 2018.5 the schematic shows 2/0 between batteries and 2ga going to the inverter. When I upgraded my whole system, I went to 4/0 for everything battery and inverter related.
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Old 10-24-2024, 07:25 AM   #11
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Not to throw more stuff at you but if you switch to lithium look closely at the fusing and what fuse type you use. Lithium have very low internal resistance and can discharge a lot of amp very quickly. While the internal BMS should prevent runaways, it is desirable to use fuse types with high amp breaking capacity. ANL fuses are around 2700 amps and T fuses can break over 20000 amps up to much higher if needed. Basically the t fuse will stop an ark but an ANL might not stop the ark. A t type fuse is recommended within a few feet of the batteries, the rest of the fuses can be other types. Explorist life has many good videos and explains this whole process.
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Old 10-24-2024, 09:16 AM   #12
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If you pull the zip loom off a section of the cable, the gauge will be I printed or embossed on the insulation of the cable. On my 2018.5 the schematic shows 2/0 between batteries and 2ga going to the inverter. When I upgraded my whole system, I went to 4/0 for everything battery and inverter related.
Thank you very much!
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Old 10-24-2024, 09:17 AM   #13
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Thanks everyone for the awesome info! Greatly appreciated!
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Old 10-24-2024, 11:27 AM   #14
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Not to throw more stuff at you but if you switch to lithium look closely at the fusing and what fuse type you use. Lithium have very low internal resistance and can discharge a lot of amp very quickly. While the internal BMS should prevent runaways, it is desirable to use fuse types with high amp breaking capacity. ANL fuses are around 2700 amps and T fuses can break over 20000 amps up to much higher if needed. Basically the t fuse will stop an ark but an ANL might not stop the ark. A t type fuse is recommended within a few feet of the batteries, the rest of the fuses can be other types. Explorist life has many good videos and explains this whole process.
I agree, I run a 400 amp Class T fuse that is 15” from the batteries, right before the main battery switch.
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Old 10-25-2024, 11:20 AM   #15
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Well I thought it was going to be easy to upgrade…haha

Thanks for all the valuable inputs.
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Old 10-25-2024, 01:37 PM   #16
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Well I thought it was going to be easy to upgrade…haha

Thanks for all the valuable inputs.
It is an easy upgrade, you’re just over thinking it
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Old 10-30-2024, 09:18 PM   #17
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Our current factory batteries are near the end of their life and I’m wanting to upgrade to lithium. I am planning to only upgrade to a single 460ah battery and changing out the BIM to lithium at this time. Later on I will add more solar and upgrade the inverter to either a 3000w Xantrex (most likely) or 3000w Victron (not sure since lots of wiring changes would need to happen??).

With upgrading to a 460ah lithium battery, which is more than double the factory amp hours, would I need to upgrade the current breaker (200 amp) behind the hidden panel in the basement?

Anything else I’m needing to upgrade for the larger battery?

Thanks

I have done a lot of solar installs with batteries. The Victron is very complicated. I'm using the eg4 6000xp. Everything is all in one and so much simpler. It can peak at 12kw, 6kw continuous. You can run 2 ACs
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Old 10-30-2024, 09:51 PM   #18
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I have done a lot of solar installs with batteries. The Victron is very complicated. I'm using the eg4 6000xp. Everything is all in one and so much simpler. It can peak at 12kw, 6kw continuous. You can run 2 ACs
Why do you say Victron is complicated, it’s about like hooking up any inverter.
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Old 10-30-2024, 10:06 PM   #19
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Why do you say Victron is complicated, it’s about like hooking up any inverter.
Everything is all built in to the eg4. The victron you have to add breakers, disconnect, better charge Controller, shunt, wire everything to the cerbo gx and need a transfer switch, The eg4 takes up less space, hook up solar, batteries, and shore power and generator directly to the inverter then you're done. All works together and much less trouble.
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Old 10-30-2024, 10:51 PM   #20
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Everything is all built in to the eg4. The victron you have to add breakers, disconnect, better charge Controller, shunt, wire everything to the cerbo gx and need a transfer switch, The eg4 takes up less space, hook up solar, batteries, and shore power and generator directly to the inverter then you're done. All works together and much less trouble.
And if one component fails in your EG4 it can’t be replaced, Victron you can. It’s not more complicated, just different. Never been a fan of ”all in one” units of any kind myself. That’s why there are choices
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