Terrain 19 Renogy Li battery issues

[vledezma]

2022 Jayco Terrain - 10KW / 200 aH system. Purchased new April 2023 with less than 15 miles. I have watched this great tutorial video several times.

https://youtu.be/m9g1RynFBBk?si=AXwD-vxbhUZAoxV9

Background: around 3 weeks of owning the RV and using 3-4 nights a week and recharging on shore power every couple days when SOC was below 20%, on a hot night, the AC ran longer than planned and drained the battery. The next day I was able to connect to shore power and after 10-15 minutes of the system going through connect / disconnect cycles...it steadily charged back to 100%.

Mid September, the battery discharged over the course of a week when I forgot to turn off the interior cabin power (fridge ran all week...minimal current draw but steady enough over course of week to drain). I ran through the same procedure to restore. The error code 03 and 05 are displayed on the controller in rear by self lock switch... one of codes is indicating "battery not detected". The controller shows charging and eventually shows 100%. The front renogy samkoon controller screen by reset switch also shows 100% but the individual cells/banks shows they are not charged. Even while on shore power, with inverter switch on, the main power cabin switch, it does does turn on. The switch itself is not lit up either nor does the firefly panel turn on. Even though the rear panel SOC states 100%, upon disconnecting from shore power, the rear panel turns off and no power seems to be available.

I have dropped off at RV (Blue Compass RV St Louis) for them to assess. They mentioned the renogy support was not provided due to this system being a RV installed system. Seems odd...since that's the inte t of the renogy system, but I'm assuming they are referring to the fact that Jayco integrated into a conversion and the dealer should first work via Jayco. On positive note, they are providing some technical bulletin updates and Jayco had providing initial support. Expect worst case, the system will be replaced.

Overall, more concerned with the general reliability and longevity of the system/battery since it was relatively new with hours usage. Have any other users of same or similar renogy systems had reliability issues on a battery being depleted and getting it coming backup?

[craigav]

Just thoughts to share as I don't have a Jayco Terrain or a high voltage LifePo4 battery, so consider this just FYI.

Almost every LifePo4 battery produced (regardless of the voltage) has a BMS inside (Battery Management System). One of the functions of the BMS is to disconnect the internal cells in case they are very low in voltage as having too low of voltage will damage the cells. If a LifePo4 is discharged to the point the BMS shuts off the battery, then it can no longer be used until it is recharged again. However, what has to occur is that the battery BMS has to wake back up as if it is disconnected internally, the battery will not charge or discharge further. With most 12v LifePo4 the simple way to wake the battery back up is to use jumper cables with another 12v battery (doesn't have to be LifePo4) as you only need to connect the two just long enough to wake the battery back up and start charging.

Your battery being of a higher voltage prevents using a 12v battery to do this. However, what is common (even for 12v systems) is to have a charger designed for LifePo4 batteries that can not only charge but can also wake the battery back up. These chargers will attempt to put out the required voltage and may do this in pulses over a period of time (minutes) with the goal of bringing the voltage up enough to wake-up the BMS and allow the battery to start charging again. The issue though is that sometimes these short term charges (or application of voltage) is not enough to bring the battery up enough higher in voltage to allow the BMS to reconnect the battery. This usually isn't a big issue with most LifePo4 chargers as they will continue to attempt to "wake-up" the battery and with enough time will (should) succeed in doing so. However, some of these chargers will give up (time-out) on its attempt to wake-up the battery in cases where and when the battery actually doesn't exists (removed) or damaged (or possibly extremely discharged).

Is this what is happening in your case? Hard to know as I don't know the specifics for your charger or battery and how Renogy \ Jayco designed the setup. I will say though that most of the chargers designed for LifePo4 batteries and have the ability to wake-up a LifePo4 will reset the wake-up attempt(s) upon disconnecting the power to the charger and waiting a few minutes and then apply the power back to the charging system. Some may have a reset option on the control panel.

Short of having specific information that you RV shop may provide, what I would suggest is to do everything you can to prevent a complete discharge of the battery, and if it does completely discharge and shut itself off, and the charging system doesn't recognize the battery then give it more time to wake-up the battery and if it still isn't charging after ~30 minutes or so, or if it isn't functioning properly then do a reset on the system (if that is an option) followed by if needed disconnecting the shore power completely and then reconnecting the shore power which you may need to do more than once.

In any case, things to know and try, hopefully you can get some specifics from the Dealership, or Renogy, or others who have your exact setup. ~CA

BTW, Welcome to the Jayco Owner's Forums (JOF)

[vledezma]

Thank you for sharing. I'll let you know what continues to develop.

[RearViewMirror]

Originally Posted by vledezma

2022 Jayco Terrain - 10KW / 200 aH system. Purchased new April 2023 with less than 15 miles. I have watched this great tutorial video several times.

https://youtu.be/m9g1RynFBBk?si=AXwD-vxbhUZAoxV9

Background: around 3 weeks of owning the RV and using 3-4 nights a week and recharging on shore power every couple days when SOC was below 20%, on a hot night, the AC ran longer than planned and drained the battery. The next day I was able to connect to shore power and after 10-15 minutes of the system going through connect / disconnect cycles...it steadily charged back to 100%.

Mid September, the battery discharged over the course of a week when I forgot to turn off the interior cabin power (fridge ran all week...minimal current draw but steady enough over course of week to drain). I ran through the same procedure to restore. The error code 03 and 05 are displayed on the controller in rear by self lock switch... one of codes is indicating "battery not detected". The controller shows charging and eventually shows 100%. The front renogy samkoon controller screen by reset switch also shows 100% but the individual cells/banks shows they are not charged. Even while on shore power, with inverter switch on, the main power cabin switch, it does does turn on. The switch itself is not lit up either nor does the firefly panel turn on. Even though the rear panel SOC states 100%, upon disconnecting from shore power, the rear panel turns off and no power seems to be available.

I have dropped off at RV (Blue Compass RV St Louis) for them to assess. They mentioned the renogy support was not provided due to this system being a RV installed system. Seems odd...since that's the inte t of the renogy system, but I'm assuming they are referring to the fact that Jayco integrated into a conversion and the dealer should first work via Jayco. On positive note, they are providing some technical bulletin updates and Jayco had providing initial support. Expect worst case, the system will be replaced.

Overall, more concerned with the general reliability and longevity of the system/battery since it was relatively new with hours usage. Have any other users of same or similar renogy systems had reliability issues on a battery being depleted and getting it coming backup?

I copied every bit of that video on the notes portion of my phone to make sure that I never screw up with starting up the van or shutting down. It's a great video.

So a couple of things. First, as I'm sure you are aware, it is never a good idea to let the battery drop below 20% (30% ideally). Lithium Ion batteries do not like to be discharged at a low rate. And as you mentioned, you will have to charge it by shore power to get it to charge back up to 100%. But it's not a good idea to do that often because it is very hard on the battery to keep discharging it down to a low rate. It will eventually ruin a cell / cells in the battery.

Here is the issue that we were unaware of. Even though the van has a 2 year "Jayco" warranty, the Reneorgy battery is not included in that warranty especially if they can figure out that you have discharged the battery beyond acceptable tolerances. If one of the cells goes out in the battery, you are on the hook for a new battery and the labor to get it all working again warranty be damned. I learned this the hard way. But... We were lucky and that wasn't the issue. As mentioned in the top post of this section, we sold the van because there is something always wrong with these vans. Jayco just does not have the ability to create these vans since they are put together poorly, there are so many issues all the time, and you never know when something is going to break (and it will).

Just remember, if you discharge the battery (even by accident) and it ruins a cell in the battery, your 2 year warranty will not be in effect for the battery and you will be on the hook for the price of the battery and labor to re install the battery and the labor to hook everything back up to get it all working again.

If I had to do it all over again? I would have never purchased a Terrain. Hindsight is always 20/20 and we made one of the worst decisions buying this van. I'm just glad it's out of our life. You will never have piece while owning this van. Sorry to rain on your parade but that's just the way it is.

[sid14184]

Discharge rate and depth of discharge are two different things. LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries can be continually discharged to 100% and there is no long-term effect. (It is a good practice not to do so)
Most lead acid batteries experience a significantly reduced cycle life if they are discharged more than 50%.
That part was taken from Battle born battery FAQ.
I can confirm this claim with my experience with their batteries. I installed 4 of them in my trailer. Depleted them ~5% (not intentional) throughout the 3 year period I had the trailer. Before I list the trailer for sale I did a battery capacity test. and it was ~95% of the original capacity.
I can also confirm this with Regnogy batteries as well. I did install just one 100AH 12V in one of my previous trailers.
Also I have built LiFePO4 battery packs using individual cells and BMSs bought from AlliExpress. Have used them in electric go kart builds and discharged to 0% without any problem.
So maintaining LiFePO4 above 30% is just a myth coming from lead acid world. The important thing to remember here is to keep them around 50% when put in storage. (storage means compete disconnect) And they will retain that level for a very long period.
These are the exact reasons why LiFePO4 have become very popular these days. And also they are 50% lighter and safer to charge/discharge than Lithion-ion.

The BMS in a LiFePO4 battery should ensure that individual cells are maintained above the minimum voltage. I don't have enough data for the Renogy 48V 10KWh battery yet. But I have posted my initial test results here:
https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...st-103996.html
I will update that as I find more test data. In my recent test (after 10K miles on Van) I depleted the battery again to 5% with the same capacity results. No degradation at all.
With the Renogy 48V 10KWh battery I charge it to 50-60% and do the complete shut down even If I store the van for a week. Have stored it like this more than a month and had no issues. When you take out from storage charge it back to 100% using shore power. This will help to recalibrate the BMS.
Everytime I charge from shore power the alternator charging system (APS-500) as well as Firefly goes out from the CAN bus. You will see the Red lamp inside the battery switch compartment start blinking as well as firefly showing 0%. Solution is simple. Just turn the 12V switch OFF for 5sec and turn it back ON before you leave your camp site.
If you do not do a complete shut down I believe under cold weather battery internal heaters will kick in. They could deplete the battery.
As I am a battery enthusiast one of the things in my list to do is to take this magical battery apart and see how it is built. The weight of this battery pack is around the same range for 10KWh pack but the dimensions are around 50% give or take compared to building a similar capacity unit using say 4 2.5KWh batteries. Could be just the single BMS saving room for more battery cells.

[vledezma]

Thanks for the detailed response and background. Do you have a blog or site with any more information on research, testing and general education you have experienced in the past with your projects?