Jayco RV Owners Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-28-2016, 11:13 PM   #41
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: High rolls
Posts: 3
My trailer empty is 5500lbs with a max loaded weight of 6750. My 2008 Ford F150 Screw cab 4x4 max load is 6900lbs gear ratio of 3.53. My wife and I and our daughter make 500lbs of people, then you need to add everything else we need and fresh tank 1/2 full. Our truck pulls the trailer just fine. We live in the mountains with a 6% grade, and we can go up and down with no problems, just use 2nd gear the whole way, 30/40mph. Like a little mountain goat. Electric brakes handle just fine on hwy too. Just don't drive it like you stole it and be traffic aware.
__________________

Hawkfire27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2016, 01:25 PM   #42
Member
 
schmittychris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Reno
Posts: 66
For some reason I love reading all of the posts about towing and trailer weights. I recently purchased a 147BH Baja but almost drove off the lot with a TT that would have blown my GVWR out of the water. We almost didn't buy from that dealer because of it. I don't think this "dead horse" could be beat enough. We all need to be aware of our tow weights when we head out.

I used to tow a larger TT with an F250 so I never had to think of it. However, after down sizing it's now become a huge issue. I think we all need a little less bravado and more critical thinking when it comes to this issue. I've been considering upgrading to an F-150 so I've been studying on the towing wars that the major manufacturers have going on. When you look at it there really hasn't been much upgraded in the vehicles but the max towing has been going up. What gives? Some speculation is that the factor of safety has been reduced and the company is taking on more liability, especially Ford. I know that I wouldn't want to push the limits of my GVWR with that in mind.

I'm also not a fan of the "if you're comfortable" line. There's a lot of dumb stuff that people feel "comfortable" doing. A lot. In this thread nobody has also brought up the legal implications of driving over the GVWR. If you're in an accident, regardless of fault, likely your weights are going to come up. Your insurance may not cover it and because you've gone over your GVWR you can't sue the manufacturer. I know I wouldn't want to rest my family's financial well being on the fact that I "feel comfortable" towing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ValenciaFamily View Post
I do not understand all of the math involved but, we have a 2016 28BHBE and our tow vehicle is a 2015 Tundra with the tow package. It is rated at 11000 lbs and seems to do very well at pulling our TT when it is loaded. We have not made any big trips or had to make any fairly steep climbs, as of right now, so when we do my feelings may change.
The issue isn't the stated towing capacity (how much the TV can pull) but rather payload capacity (the combined vehicle and cargo weight). Sure the TV can pull it, but it can't handle the vertical load put on the vehicle by the trailer. This was the case when I went to buy my last TT. My TV could pull the weight fine, but the tongue weight was too much and I didn't have the available payload capacity.
__________________

__________________
Chris

TV: 2011 Nissan Xterra Pro4x
TT: 2016 174BH Baja Edition
schmittychris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2016, 01:49 PM   #43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Central California
Posts: 2,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmittychris View Post
In this thread nobody has also brought up the legal implications of driving over the GVWR. If you're in an accident, regardless of fault, likely your weights are going to come up. Your insurance may not cover it and because you've gone over your GVWR you can't sue the manufacturer. I know I wouldn't want to rest my family's financial well being on the fact that I "feel comfortable" towing
I agree with most of what you posted. However this element quoted above does come up occasionally, but a lot less frequently of late. Why? Because no one can identify this ever actually happening. If you know of a documented case where this occurred, an insurance company didn't cover an accident or a non-commercial driver was sited for exceeding GCWR limits please share. We would all be interested.

Please don't interpret this critique as supporting exceeding these limits, I most certainly don't.

I do however have concern with alarmist posts that are not based is documented fact.

If this was true insurance companies would almost never cover any accident. DUI crashed wouldn't be covered. Red light runners wouldn't be covered. Crashes as a result of texting, reading, etc -- any of the now illegal distracted driving laws would provide them an out. Which simply is not the case. Insurance actuaries factor this possibilities into the rates and decision to insure.

If you know otherwise please straighten me out.

Regards.
__________________
2007 Chevy Duramax LMM/Allison
2012 Jay Flight 29QBH
2012 Jay Flight 26BH (Sold)
clubhouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2016, 02:40 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
Ottawasteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon059 View Post
I am with you. The payload picture clearly states the following;

THE COMBINED WEIGHT OF OCCUPANTS AND CARGO SHOULD NEVER EXCEED 1138 LBS.

It doesn't say that the combined weight of should never exceed 1138 lbs, plus 150 lbs per 5 passengers for a total of 1888 lbs... it clearly states COMBINED WEIGHT SHOULD NOT EXCEED 1138 LBS.

That isn't gray area, that isn't confusing, that isn't open for interpretation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blderman View Post
You are absolutely correct on this. Where it gets interesting is how much does the truck actually weigb empty? For example, my '14 F150 Ecoboost max tow, has a sticker rating of 7,700lb GVWR with a 1,750 payload rating. That means Ford thinks my truck weighs 5950 empty. However, i have weighed it empty at three different certified scales with just me in the truck (185) and a full tank of fuel. Each time the scale read 5800lbs. So technically without me in the truck i have 2,130lb of available payload if I go by the GVWR and a certified scale.

All three of my Ram trucks also weighed less than the payload sticker implied. However my 02 F350 was overweight by 600lb. I dont understand the variables on behalf of the manufacturers but i think it pays to weigh your truck and go by the GVWR.
Didn't realize this thread was still active, but to ensure that future readers are not mislead, the actual weights provided by blderman would mean that that all three scales that blderman went to (with the same year F150 as the OP) were wrong OR alternatively the posters above are confused in their interpretation of the OP's yellow sticker. I provided reference and quote from the Ford Tow Guide as to how F150 payload is calculated. Payload is the same for a truck whether you are carrying bags of cement or a truck camper or the tongue weight of a tow trailer with the contents of the truck. When contemplating payload capacities for F150's you may wish to rely on the F150 tow guides and actual facts rather than some guy on the internet:


https://www.ford.ca/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/35520_2014_rv_trailer_and_towing_guide_english.pdf

Where it states:
Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is maximum allowable, assuming weight of a base vehicle with required camper option content and a 150-lb. passenger at each available seating position.


Happy camping
__________________
2015 Eagle 284BHBE

2010 Ford F150 XLT 5.4 Maxtow, Coverking Seat Covers, Putco LED interiors, Kenwood DNX571TR GPS, Kicker Powerstage, Weathertech Floor Mats and Window Vents, Line-X, Firestone Airbags, Michelin LTX-MS2, LivewireTS 5 Star tuned, Propride 3P
Ottawasteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2016, 03:08 PM   #45
Member
 
schmittychris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Reno
Posts: 66
I don't mean to be alarmist. I do know two people who have had insurance refuse to pay for "using their vehicle for other than intended purposes." One had moded his car up and had gotten in a wreck that involved 3 other cars for which he was at fault. If he had just tried to get paid for the base car he might have been fine. But he tried to claim all of his upgrades too. Insurance paid the liability but denied on the vehicle. Once this was found out the lawsuits started coming in. The other was using his vehicle for business and didn't have a business policy. That being said, insurance companies can, depending on your insurance (some have clauses against it), deny claims for drunk driving. They still honor the liability, but that has a cap and we know how much lawyers cost. Insurance companies don't stay in business by paying claims.

So while I don't know of any instances where someone has had a claim denied for over weight trailer, I'm sure the insurance company could. You also open yourself up to liability if you were using your vehicle "other than intended" and you hurt people. That day in court would be the shortest one ever. I know that if someone with a large trailer hit me it would be the first thing I would want checked.

As I am an engineer, I am not versed in insurance law. This is all from my experience and understanding as it applies. I do not want to be the test subject for whether or not my insurance company will pay out if I'm overloaded. Someone with deeper pockets is welcome to try it out.
__________________
Chris

TV: 2011 Nissan Xterra Pro4x
TT: 2016 174BH Baja Edition
schmittychris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2016, 07:23 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
jsallman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Ames
Posts: 279
Cyclones,

I think there is a lot of good advice on this post.

You might find this helpful, https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...rip-31200.html . I really wish I could tell you to take the trailer to a CAT scale before you commit, but thats not likely to happen. Would be really nice if every RV dealer had one onsite :-). I am not sure where you will end up, but those are my results above. It was a 2013 F150 Maxtow, 3 Adults, little in the bed, and a 2016 29BHDS (which is a little heavier, 800 pounds or so). It was very close to the payload on my truck, a little over. My door jamb number was higher as well, but it was a 2013, not the newer generation.

It towed my trailer, it had plenty of power, no complaints there. I had to beef up the suspension to make the family stand it as it bumped horribly on certain roads. When a truck would blast by me, especially oncoming on a 2 lane highway, you definitely knew it as it would try to pull the truck over. It was OK, but a little white knuckle. Ultimately I decided I didn't want to worry about it and had a good opportunity not to take too bad of a bath on the trade.

Today I towed the same trailer for the first time with my new Ram 2500, it was still a little bumpy but better than the F150 with enhanced suspension, and I was on 2 lane highways with trucks blowing by me, didn't feel a thing. The truck is just so much heavier, it wont jerk it around.

I do miss the F150 as a daily driver, I have to admit. Wish you the best on your decision.
__________________
2016 Jayflight 29BHDS
2015 Ram 2500 Laramie Crew Cab - 6.4 Hemi
2013 Ford F150 Supercrew EcoBoost, MaxTow (Loved and Sold)

Equal-i-zer Weight distribution system
jsallman1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2016, 11:55 PM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland
Posts: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawasteve View Post
Didn't realize this thread was still active, but to ensure that future readers are not mislead, the actual weights provided by blderman would mean that that all three scales that blderman went to (with the same year F150 as the OP) were wrong OR alternatively the posters above are confused in their interpretation of the OP's yellow sticker. I provided reference and quote from the Ford Tow Guide as to how F150 payload is calculated. Payload is the same for a truck whether you are carrying bags of cement or a truck camper or the tongue weight of a tow trailer with the contents of the truck. When contemplating payload capacities for F150's you may wish to rely on the F150 tow guides and actual facts rather than some guy on the internet:


https://www.ford.ca/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/35520_2014_rv_trailer_and_towing_guide_english.pdf

Where it states:
Cargo Weight Rating shown in chart is maximum allowable, assuming weight of a base vehicle with required camper option content and a 150-lb. passenger at each available seating position.


Happy camping
I don't know what to tell you. The scales I went to were all certified and my F150 weighed less than Ford's sticker said it did. My current 2015 Ram 2500 also weighs less than the sticker says. I don't think manufacturers are very accurate with how they weigh their vehicles. All that being said at no time did I state to exceed the GVWR so I am not sure what you find wrong with my statement?

From my Note 5
__________________
2016 23MBH Elite
2014 F150 SCREW LB Ecoboost
blderman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 11:03 AM   #48
Site Team
 
Denise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mostly the US
Posts: 10,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawasteve View Post

I have yet to see a reliable report from somebody who has actually driven a F150 SCREW with a six speed transmission (2009 to 2016) and Max Tow package who has had any concerns about pulling a trailer of this weight and size.
You do now

-SOLD - 2009 Ford F-150 Platinum SCrew
-SOLD - 2010 Jayco Jay Flight G2 29bhs

Visit the CAT Scales, or seriously consider the apples to apples advice from others who base their whiteknuckle or non whiteknuckle ride using CAT scale weights and the highway experience... and not just guesstimates.

Although we had max towing to 11k(?)ish pounds on our F-150 Platinum with max everything and 18" tires, and our 29BHS tt loaded weighed around 7,300, we were still at our limit towing. Why? Because we big time lacked in payload. To have a safer tow, we needed to keep in mind the 10-15% tongue, etc etc etc. (Sorry, we no longer have the CAT numbers for that setup to substantiate this now). But to have just enough weight on our tongue to be in that percentage range when traveling with grandkids,we could not have anything in the truck bed, or heavier items in that front compartment/queen bedroom cabinets, elec tongue jack, or combination of etc.

We only had sway on interstates (passing trucks) or in windy conditions... but! We still had some sway (Equalizer 1200 hitch). White-knuckle moments did occur. Towing up grades was comfortable at 45mph, and down the other side, low gear (by pushing the brake two times) kept the speed down. No matter. Where we suffered was payload!

FAST FORWARD to 2016.... We really wanted the upgrade to the 29QBS (numbers similar to the 28BHBE), but knowing our payload wouldn't cooperate with a safe towing experience on the lighter/shorter 29BHS, we opted to upgrade to a 3/4 ton.

What a difference!!!!! And what's even more amazing is that we will actually be able to put stuff in the bed of truck, no worries about what we store in the front of the tt, etc etc (keeping within the parameters of that 13-15% tongue weight of course). Hope that all made sense. But having those CAT scale weights helped keep us within the margin regarding packing/loading.

It's all about the numbers. I'm very grateful to all who over the years teach other members about the CAT scales and what to do with the actual weight numbers to figure out the set-up or how to re-distribute the weight if needed.. and Re-visit the CAT scales once adjustments have been made etc.


[A special thanks to Eagle Bob. Your advice/guidance over the past seven years has always been spot on!]

CAT Scale info https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...v-tt-3871.html
__________________
moderator
Denise, DH, grandkids, and two rescue pups
-2016 Jay Flight 29QBS Elite
-2016 Ford F-250 XLT 4x2, 6.2L EFI V8, 4.30 Elec Lock, Heavy duty Alt
Denise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 10:56 PM   #49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawasteve View Post
...If you look at the Ford 2014 tow guide you will note that payload is calculated based on a 150 lb passenger in each seating position, so based on the 5 seats in your truck, Ford already assumes you have a 750lbs passenger in each seat and a full tank of gas when calculating payload. Ford used to calculate payload based on a 150lb driver and a full tank of gas but this changed in 2013, I believe.
I cannot find this reference in the 2014 guide. The 150# driver ONLY, with full tank of fuel, and NO CARGO still applies in calculating towing weights.
The payload is simple... Gross vehicle weight rating less curb weight. The OP should take his truck across the scale as he drives it daily with a full tank of gas before loading gear. Subtract it from the GVWR, and that's what he has to play with. A smart grasshopper will do it with his wife IN THE TRUCK, so she won't have to lie about her weight.
I've lived this game over MANY times, and now run an F350, but am following this close because I'm sick of diesel costs, insurance rates, and being captive to a big truck for a daily driver... Just to tow 6x a year. I was looking at the F150 with this trailer, too.
kampfirekid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2016, 03:01 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
Ottawasteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 293
Hi Kampfire:


Here is a link to the 2016 Towing Guide. On page 10 on the left hand side you will see that payload is calculated with a 150 lb passenger in each seating position and what the potential payloads (depending on options) are with the HD Payload package equipped trucks. It also provides a comparison of payloads between the F250 and F150:


http://www.fleet.ford.ca/resources/f...Tgde_Sep30.pdf
__________________

__________________
2015 Eagle 284BHBE

2010 Ford F150 XLT 5.4 Maxtow, Coverking Seat Covers, Putco LED interiors, Kenwood DNX571TR GPS, Kicker Powerstage, Weathertech Floor Mats and Window Vents, Line-X, Firestone Airbags, Michelin LTX-MS2, LivewireTS 5 Star tuned, Propride 3P
Ottawasteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia State Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2002-2016 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.