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Old 07-14-2020, 06:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Texdan25 View Post
I thought the whole idea of the OP was to reduce tongue weight?
When it comes to towing capacity payload is usually the limiting factor. Tongue weight counts towards payload.
Hitches can be limiting factors in regards to tongue weight but they can be changed, payload cannot.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:04 PM   #22
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After much research, we decided to get a Jayco 28BHS due to the floorplan and plenty of space to take family & friends along. We needed a tow vehicle, and based on many calculations I decided to get a new RAM 1500 as we are going to pull a half-dozen times a year if that.

Well...
Aww man...I feel awful for you. I went through this entire process and was VERY CLOSE to pulling the trigger on the 28BHS when I learned about payload--had no idea what that meant and NO dealership gave me ANY information about it regarding what I could pull with my F-150. I literally had an old guy who has been in the industry a LONG time reading off yellow stickers as we walked through the lot and telling me I could pull ANYTHING under 10,300 lbs dry (my tow cap with an empty truck) as long as I didn't completely fill the water tanks. I explained to him why I could not and he simply disagreed with me. The towing book at the dealership shows towing capacity but nothing re: payload or GCWR.

I also got spooked by the random variety of sources that showed the 28BHS anywhere from 600 to 900# tongue weight. And once you load it, you're gonna be well over, as you learned.

Fortunately I learned about all of this because I really wanted a rig that I could pull at elevation, so I wanted a 30% buffer in tow capacity...as I dug around online (especially here), I learned a TON from people like Rustic Eagle and many others.

Despite having 6 people in the family (which kills my payload capacity, btw), we decided to go with the 24RBS. This allows us to easily haul the kids in the truck, the bikes (both in truck and on trailer), and keeps us about 25% under GCWR for mountain driving.

Like you we had to return to the dealership to adjust the WDH, but it drives like a dream when weight is properly shifted and when we don't need to drive with full water tanks. (With full water it's a little sluggish, that's all.)

The one thing I would recommend for you at this point is a tongue scale, which is a quick and easy way to see how water fill and weight distribution within the trailer impacts your tongue weight. It's great if you don't want to travel to the scales 30 mi away and make adjustments on site there. Just be cautious with your setup, and this tool will give you valuable information. I have a pretty good feel for when it is measuring fairly accurately now and I can see adjustments really obviously (like adding water, shifting heavy items to the back, etc.). I leave a 50# cushion to my measurements, but it gives an idea at least and might be useful for you.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007REK28M

it's definitely worth doing what you can to work within your limits as a 3/4 ton will cost you a lot of money!!
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:54 AM   #23
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etrailer also has one - https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/etrailer/e99044.html that is pretty cool. You can actually pop the head off, flip it around and it can replace the foot of your tongue jack.
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:46 PM   #24
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etrailer also has one - https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/etrailer/e99044.html that is pretty cool. You can actually pop the head off, flip it around and it can replace the foot of your tongue jack.
Wow that is amazing! I wish I had seen that 2 years ago! Have you used it?
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Old 07-16-2020, 03:22 PM   #25
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etrailer also has one - https://www.etrailer.com/Tools/etrailer/e99044.html that is pretty cool. You can actually pop the head off, flip it around and it can replace the foot of your tongue jack.
I wonder if that eTrailer version uses the same hydraulic fluid method that the Sherline does? Must have better seals if you can use it upside down.

Also, with only 5 reviews on eTrailers website, and over 500 reviews on the Sherline, plus another 200 reviews for the Sherline on Amazon personally I'd go with the Sherline. Maybe the eTrailer scale is a very new product?

But...that eTrailer model sure makes sense in it's dual usage option. The Sherline is a pain in that you need blocks under it to get it up to the right height to use it. And it also seems "delicate" in that you have to store it and keep it upright or the fluid could leak.

With the eTrailer one, that included pole is a set height, I'm assuming all trailers are typically at that height when level?

Oddly, in the 2 videos on eTrailer about their own product, they never mention the calculation difference of weighing the tongue at the hitch ball vs a foot away at the stand. Close enough I guess...
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Old 07-16-2020, 03:38 PM   #26
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I wonder if that eTrailer version uses the same hydraulic fluid method that the Sherline does?...Close enough I guess...
You just hit on all the reasons I went with the Sherline. It was highly recommended. But it is a PITA to use...there is a surprisingly steep learning curve. But overall I use it to ballpark minor loading adjustments on the fly, so I suppose the eTrailer version might work just as well (read: easy) for that. I've seen enough variation in the Sherline to know I would NOT bet my life on it's readings.
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:53 PM   #27
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Oddly, in the 2 videos on eTrailer about their own product, they never mention the calculation difference of weighing the tongue at the hitch ball vs a foot away at the stand. Close enough I guess...
Big Truck Big RV on YouTube has a video on it (it's where I first saw it). I think it's a newer product.

https://youtu.be/r6vpKTzO974
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Old 07-18-2020, 05:41 PM   #28
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Texdan25,

The 1,500lb rating on your TV receiver, is that Weight Carrying, and/or Weight Distribution?

Assuming the 1,500lbs is Weight Distribution, you could tow the 32ft/12,000lb GVWR TT but your "actual" scaled gross TT "loaded" weight would have to allow for a 13% to 15% loaded tongue weight range that didn't exceed 1,500lbs. All depends on your personal loading habits.

There is "some" TT tongue weight removed from the hitch ball when the WDH is engaged, but for the most part it's a constant weight.

As far as the WDH weight itself, that weight would go against your TV's "available" payload capacity, as would the TT's loaded tongue weight.

I would confirm your 2500HD's "available" payload capacity (CAT scale)..., great data to know prior to purchasing a heavy/long TT.

Bob
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Old 07-18-2020, 06:27 PM   #29
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Texdan25,

The 1,500lb rating on your TV receiver, is that Weight Carrying, and/or Weight Distribution?

Assuming the 1,500lbs is Weight Distribution, you could tow the 32ft/12,000lb GVWR TT but your "actual" scaled gross TT "loaded" weight would have to allow for a 13% to 15% loaded tongue weight range that didn't exceed 1,500lbs. All depends on your personal loading habits.

There is "some" TT tongue weight removed from the hitch ball when the WDH is engaged, but for the most part it's a constant weight.

As far as the WDH weight itself, that weight would go against your TV's "available" payload capacity, as would the TT's loaded tongue weight.

I would confirm your 2500HD's "available" payload capacity (CAT scale)..., great data to know prior to purchasing a heavy/long TT.

Bob
The 1500 in the manual says Weight Carrying or Weight Distributing.


Payload on door sticker is 2822 lbs. I don't think that's a problem even if hitch tongue wt is 1500, that still leaves me 1322. My concern is the 1500 hitch max and what my actual tongue weight might be? Can't go to CAT scale to find out when buying one.
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Old 07-18-2020, 06:40 PM   #30
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Old 07-18-2020, 06:52 PM   #31
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snip.....My concern is the 1500 hitch max and what my actual tongue weight might be? Can't go to CAT scale to find out when buying one.
What is the year/brand/model TT you are looking at? Do you know the 'as-shipped' UVW noted on the yellow sticker on the side of the TT?

OR...... If you tend to load heavy (water, extended stay travel, etc.), I would consider upgrading the TV's receiver.

From what I could find (google), the 2013 GM 2500HD OEM receiver was rated at 1,500lbs when using a WDH. I believe the 2013 2500HD model had a 2" pin box.

Bob
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Old 07-18-2020, 07:08 PM   #32
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What is the year/brand/model TT you are looking at? Or do you know the 'as-shipped' UVW noted on the yellow sticker on the side of the TT?

OR...... If you tend to load heavy (water, extended stay travel, etc.), I would just upgrade the TV's receiver.

Bob

Per Yellow sticker (I took a pic of it):
UVW - 8966
MAX CARGO - 2994
GVRW - 12000
GAWR (EACH AXLE) - 6000


We load light except this is a toy hauler so might be hauling a 1000# golf cart some times.
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Old 07-18-2020, 07:29 PM   #33
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Texdan25,

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snippppppWe load light except this is a toy hauler so might be hauling a 1000# golf cart some times.
Appreciate the feedback..., very helpful.

As you know, the loaded tongue weight on a Toyhauler can very (more than a TT) depending on how it's used (with/without toys). With TH's load placement is critical.

Hypothetical "light loading habit": (8,966lb UVW as-shipped) + (50lbs dealer battery, etc) + (500lbs light-cargo) = 9,516lbs .......... 1,237lbs to 1,474lbs loaded tongue weight range (13% to 15%)

Add golf cart: (9,516lbs) + (1,000lb GC) = 10,516lbs ....... 1,367lbs to 1,577lbs (13% to 15%)

Again, based on a "light loading habit"......., just food for thought.

Bob
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Old 07-18-2020, 07:38 PM   #34
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Texdan25,



Appreciate the feedback..., very helpful.

As you know, the loaded tongue weight on a Toyhauler can very (more than a TT) depending on how it's used (with/without toys). With TH's load placement is critical.

Hypothetical "light loading habit": (8,966lb UVW) + (50lbs dealer battery, etc) + (500lbs cargo) = 9,516lbs .......... 1,237lbs to 1,474lbs loaded tongue weight range (13% to 15%)

Add golf cart: (9,516lbs) + (1,000lb GC) = 10,516lbs ....... 1,367lbs to 1,577lbs (13% to 15%)

Again, based on a "light loading habit"......., just food for thought.

Bob
Thanks Bob. Based on these numbers I'd be OK without the golf cart but could be over when hauling it. How does the WHD figure in since it reduces the tongue weight on the hitch? And I know, this is all assuming on a 'light' loading of the TT.
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Old 07-18-2020, 07:51 PM   #35
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snip.....How does the WHD figure in since it reduces the tongue weight on the hitch?....snip
The WDH's main purpose (and design) is to transfer weight off the TV's rear axle thus returning the weight that was removed from the TV's front axle, all due to the effect of the initial weight being placed on the TV's hitch ball. The resulting rear 'squat' of the TV is-what-it-is.

The WDH is not designed to remove weight from the TV's hitch ball, but do to physics a little weight is removed....., differs from one vehicle to another.

As the WDH transfers weight back to the TV's front suspension there will also be a few hundred pounds transferred back to the trailer's axles..., again, a by-product of the WDH physics/leveraging.

Bob
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Old 07-18-2020, 08:00 PM   #36
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Talking

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The WDH's main purpose (and design) is to transfer weight off the TV's rear axle thus returning the weight that was removed from the TV's front axle, all due to the effect of the initial weight being placed on the TV's hitch ball. The resulting rear 'squat' of the TV is-what-it-is.

The WDH is not designed to remove weight from the TV's hitch ball, but do to physics a little weight is removed....., differs from one vehicle to another.

As the WDH transfers weight back to the TV's front suspension there will also be a few hundred pounds transferred back to the trailer's axles..., again, a by-product of the WDH physics/leveraging.

Bob
Guess that blows that theory! Well, I've had enough of this for now, gonna make sure all the other numbers are in line and go from there. Maybe we'll just buy a pop up! Thanks so much for all your inputs.
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Old 07-18-2020, 08:08 PM   #37
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snip......gonna make sure all the other numbers are in line and go from there.....snip
Maybe we will cross paths in Texas with your new Toyhauler...., I spend time in the Kerrville, TX. area during the winter months.

Bob
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Old 07-18-2020, 08:29 PM   #38
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Maybe we will cross paths in Texas with your new Toyhauler...., I spend time in the Kerrville, TX. area during the winter months.

Bob
Great area, I live between Austin and San Antonio near Canyon Lake. Lived in NW Ohio near Bowling Green until the ''Blizzard of '78' drove me south!
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Old 07-20-2020, 09:34 AM   #39
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Texdan25,



Appreciate the feedback..., very helpful.

As you know, the loaded tongue weight on a Toyhauler can very (more than a TT) depending on how it's used (with/without toys). With TH's load placement is critical.

Hypothetical "light loading habit": (8,966lb UVW as-shipped) + (50lbs dealer battery, etc) + (500lbs light-cargo) = 9,516lbs .......... 1,237lbs to 1,474lbs loaded tongue weight range (13% to 15%)

Add golf cart: (9,516lbs) + (1,000lb GC) = 10,516lbs ....... 1,367lbs to 1,577lbs (13% to 15%)

Again, based on a "light loading habit"......., just food for thought.

Bob
Hi Bob. Been doing more research and have found many folks saying you have to be careful with a Toy Hauler tongue weight being REDUCED too much when hauling toys, which to me makes sense if the toy is too far back in the garage. So your 'Add golf cart' figures above don't make sense to me. Comments?
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Old 07-20-2020, 02:45 PM   #40
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snip..... So your 'Add golf cart' figures above don't make sense to me. Comments?
In my post I mentioned: "........loaded tongue weight on a Toyhauler can very (more than a TT) depending on how it's used (with/without toys). With TH's load placement is critical."

Yes, an "empty" TH will have a heavier tongue weight than the same "loaded" TH.., but axle locations, TH length, and toy weight/placement influence the empty to loaded tongue weight delta.

In both of my "hypothetical" examples with "500lb cargo" only, and "500lb cargo with added 1,000lb golf cart", in both cases the loads would have to be located resulting in a loaded tongue weight within the 13% to 15% range.

TH's require a little more forethought in "load" placement than TT's & FW's when it comes to addressing tongue or pin weights. Another weight consideration with TH's is the size/location of the fuel tank, effect-of when filled.

In some cases (depending on the TH configuration) the WDH may require re-adjustment when the TH is used under notable weight loading differences.

Hope this addresses your question.

Bob
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