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01-04-2023, 08:08 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 12
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Add outlet, new breaker?
I have a 2022 Jayco SLX8 26RLS. The microwave is on a dedicated 20 amp breaker. The microwave is only rated at 900W. I want to add another outlet on that breaker to run a small space heater. Can I just add a hot wire onto the back of that 20 amp breaker or do I need to piggyback off of the outlet the microwave is plugged into?
The plug for the microwave is in the cabinet above the sink and it would be kind of hard to route a wire from that outlet in the upper cabinet, down to the side of the counter top. If it’s possible to tap in on the backside of the breaker, it would be quite simple to run the wires over to a new outlet.
So my question is, can I go buy some Romex and just add a hot wire in on the backside of the 20 amp breaker (where only the microwave outlet is wired) or does it have to be piggybacked off of the microwave outlet?
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01-04-2023, 09:10 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Mapleton
Posts: 4,341
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Are there any vacant slots in your panel? Mine had a couple and I just added standard breaker to power my water heater add on heating element. Better than potentially over heating or blowing the breaker.
__________________
2017 SLX 195RB
2021 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit L 5.7L V8
Andersen WDH hitch, Renogy 100 AH Lithium &
200 Watts solar panels from Renogy
Prev. '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland, gas 3.6 V6
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01-04-2023, 12:15 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Inland Empire, California
Posts: 1,986
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Keep this in mind, if your new outlet is in the kitchen area it should be a GFI. You can solve this by just installing a dedicated GFI outlet instead of a standard outlet.
I added a new line in my rig for an electric water heater. Used a new breaker and used wiring that was enclosed in flexible plastic conduit because I partially routed it under my rig.
__________________
Jim
Retired electronic technician (45 years in the field)
2017 Greyhawk 29W (solar & many other mods)
wife (maybe I should have given her top billing)
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01-04-2023, 12:43 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Elgin
Posts: 851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THyatt123
I have a 2022 Jayco SLX8 26RLS. The microwave is on a dedicated 20 amp breaker. The microwave is only rated at 900W. I want to add another outlet on that breaker to run a small space heater. Can I just add a hot wire onto the back of that 20 amp breaker or do I need to piggyback off of the outlet the microwave is plugged into?
The plug for the microwave is in the cabinet above the sink and it would be kind of hard to route a wire from that outlet in the upper cabinet, down to the side of the counter top. If it’s possible to tap in on the backside of the breaker, it would be quite simple to run the wires over to a new outlet.
So my question is, can I go buy some Romex and just add a hot wire in on the backside of the 20 amp breaker (where only the microwave outlet is wired) or does it have to be piggybacked off of the microwave outlet?
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To answer your question yes it is possible to add on to your existing 20 amp breaker. Those heaters often pull between 1200 and 1500 watts so I wouldn't plan on being able to run both the space heater and microwave at the same time. Also make sure you have enough room on the breaker to add another wire and still be able to get the screws tight so neither of the wires are in any way loose. A loose wire is the fastest way to burn your rig to the ground.
Having said that I would try to add another breaker if you have room in your panel. I know you want to use the new receptacle for a heater but there's a good chance at some point someone is going to plug something in that receptacle that could overload the circuit. I wouldn't rely on the breaker tripping every time for an overloaded circuit.
__________________
2016 Ram 2500 CC SWB 6.4 Hemi 3:73
2021 Jay Flight 33RBTS- +/- 10,500 lbs. on travel day
Hughes Power Watchdog Bluetooth surge protector
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01-04-2023, 01:17 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Inland Empire, California
Posts: 1,986
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If you don't have a spare breaker you can do what I did. I replaced one of my breakers with a dual unit which allowed me to run a dedicated 20 amp line to my new water heater.
Last recommendation - use the correct gauge wire for your feed. 20 amp requires a heavier gauge than 15 amp service.
__________________
Jim
Retired electronic technician (45 years in the field)
2017 Greyhawk 29W (solar & many other mods)
wife (maybe I should have given her top billing)
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01-04-2023, 01:57 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 1,022
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900 watts is probably the output, not the 120 volt current required.
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2022 Jayco Pinnacle 32RLTS, Onan 5500, 380 Watts
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2017 Ram Cummins 3500, 4x4, Dually Aisin, 3.73
B&W hitch
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01-04-2023, 02:35 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Fortuna Foothills
Posts: 1,862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimD
If you don't have a spare breaker you can do what I did. I replaced one of my breakers with a dual unit which allowed me to run a dedicated 20 amp line to my new water heater.
Last recommendation - use the correct gauge wire for your feed. 20 amp requires a heavier gauge than 15 amp service.
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As a licensed electrician, this is the best response to the question. Use #12 romex or as someone suggested add a new breaker if there is room. Adding a wire to a breaker that has a wire landed on it is a code violation. A GFCI is only needed if the outlet is to be within 6' of a sink.
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01-04-2023, 02:38 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Fortuna Foothills
Posts: 1,862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Learjet
900 watts is probably the output, not the 120 volt current required.
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The 900 watts the OP is referring to what is stated on the UL tag/label is in fact the current the microwave will draw at 120v. (it must be noted that some UL labels will use 115v as the voltage of the unit).
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01-04-2023, 02:59 PM
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#9
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 12
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I think it’s full already.. I attached a photo.
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01-04-2023, 03:17 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,506
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There are some breakers that do allow double lugging however not the breakers you have in your image. To do what you want to do safely and up to code, you need to use a pigtail where you use a wire nut to combine the two ~12awg wires together along with a single wire back to the breaker. In other words, one 12awg wire connected to the breaker feeding the two wires (circuits) which means you have three wires connected under the wire nut. As others have stated, you likely will trip the breaker if you use the heater and the microwave at the same time, especially if the heater is on high. ~CA
__________________
2010 GreyHawk 31SS
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01-04-2023, 04:53 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Fortuna Foothills
Posts: 1,862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THyatt123
I think it’s full already.. I attached a photo.
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Yes, it's full. Here's a link to the spec's. The 30amp is your main and the rest are the 5 branch circuit breakers.
https://wfcoelectronics.com/product/...-power-center/
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01-04-2023, 05:49 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Southwest ND
Posts: 351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicr
The 900 watts the OP is referring to what is stated on the UL tag/label is in fact the current the microwave will draw at 120v. (it must be noted that some UL labels will use 115v as the voltage of the unit).
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Not to nitpik but that is misstated. Watts isn't current. But you know that.
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01-04-2023, 05:52 PM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2022
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigav
There are some breakers that do allow double lugging however not the breakers you have in your image. To do what you want to do safely and up to code, you need to use a pigtail where you use a wire nut to combine the two ~12awg wires together along with a single wire back to the breaker. In other words, one 12awg wire connected to the breaker feeding the two wires (circuits) which means you have three wires connected under the wire nut. As others have stated, you likely will trip the breaker if you use the heater and the microwave at the same time, especially if the heater is on high. ~CA
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This seems easy enough. The outlet I want to add will be specifically for a small space heater. Nothing else will ever be plugged into it. We’re already used to unplugging the microwave to use the space heater at night so I’m not too concerned with forgetting and running them at the same time.
So I would create the pigtail at the breaker and then just connect the new neutral and ground to the busses?
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01-04-2023, 08:49 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: North Texas
Posts: 3,506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THyatt123
This seems easy enough. The outlet I want to add will be specifically for a small space heater. Nothing else will ever be plugged into it. We’re already used to unplugging the microwave to use the space heater at night so I’m not too concerned with forgetting and running them at the same time.
So I would create the pigtail at the breaker and then just connect the new neutral and ground to the busses?
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Correct.
Just a thought to add, you need to have the neutral and ground for your new romex in its own separate bus hole (separate busses) and not have two neutrals under one screw (similar concept as to the breaker itself). If you are out of neutral bus holes, then you should pigtail the neutral as well like you did the hot wires at the breaker. I would have to double check the nec codes if you wanted to be code compliant, but I seem to remember two ground wires under one screw hole is in code... but you could pigtail the ground as well...
In any case, the neutral wire having its own bus screw hole is just as important as having only one conductor on the breaker. The ground is not as concerning where you could put two wires under the same screw or pigtail it.
I am sharing these additional thoughts as your breaker panel neutral and ground busses may not have additional holes to do anything else. ~CA
__________________
2010 GreyHawk 31SS
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01-05-2023, 05:44 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2022
Location: Beaufort
Posts: 185
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Keep in mind that your power distribution is probably coming through a power control system. That sheds loads to keep your total consumption to 50, 30, 20 or 15 amps depending on how you set it. Each circuit has a priority level so a low priority item like a water heater or heat/AC will be shut off when a high priority item like the microwave needs power. By adding a low priority load to the high priority circuit you are defeating the purpose of this system.
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01-05-2023, 10:44 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Salem
Posts: 819
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Since most power poles at CG's have a 30A-50A plugin along with two 15A plugins why not just run an electrical cord from the power post inside the TT and use that for you heater? No more unplugging the micro all the time.
I did that exact same thing on a previous 5er I had.
A 14-2 cord would be fine. I stuffed mine in through the slideout on the bottom corner. Zero issues.
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01-05-2023, 12:20 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: PNW
Posts: 5,195
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Maybe the new circuit could be tied into the air conditioner breaker. You never use a heater and the air condition at the same time. At least I don't. LOL
__________________
Bill
2011 Dodge Ram 1500 HEMI Quad Cab
2011 Jay Flight 26BH
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01-05-2023, 03:08 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 2,882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokerBill
Maybe the new circuit could be tied into the air conditioner breaker. You never use a heater and the air condition at the same time. At least I don't. LOL
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There are times my wife and I would like to use them at the same time. Lol
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01-11-2023, 02:48 PM
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#19
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Portland
Posts: 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicr
The 900 watts the OP is referring to what is stated on the UL tag/label is in fact the current the microwave will draw at 120v. (it must be noted that some UL labels will use 115v as the voltage of the unit).
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Draw is typically the current, feed is voltage. Runs are so short in our trailers that calculating voltage drop is not usually necessary so star with correct cable.
120v is the RMS of the sine wave for A/C. 115v is just at the 3% drop so virtually no change. The watts is the power. 900 watts fed by 120v has a resistance of 17ohms, drawing 5amps.
Using Ohms Law for Amperage, Power (Watts) divided by Voltage equals Amps.
He has plenty of capacity to use the heater and the microwave, should the heater not draw more amperage than the rating of the breaker whilst considering the maximum draw of the microwave. All 120v-20amp breakers should use 12awg minimum cabling.
I recommend hiring a professional. We can be cheap if you know what you want and follow our advice to get you what you want.
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01-11-2023, 03:03 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Inland Empire, California
Posts: 1,986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustyww
Draw is typically the current, feed is voltage. Runs are so short in our trailers that calculating voltage drop is not usually necessary so star with correct cable.
120v is the RMS of the sine wave for A/C. 115v is just at the 3% drop so virtually no change. The watts is the power. 900 watts fed by 120v has a resistance of 17ohms, drawing 5amps.
Using Ohms Law for Amperage, Power (Watts) divided by Voltage equals Amps.
He has plenty of capacity to use the heater and the microwave, should the heater not draw more amperage than the rating of the breaker whilst considering the maximum draw of the microwave. All 120v-20amp breakers should use 12awg minimum cabling.
I recommend hiring a professional. We can be cheap if you know what you want and follow our advice to get you what you want.
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I think you miscalculated the current draw for 900 watts. Using the formula I=P/E for 120 volt calculation it would be 900/120=7.5 amps. If you use 115 volts it would be 900/115=7.82 amps.
__________________
Jim
Retired electronic technician (45 years in the field)
2017 Greyhawk 29W (solar & many other mods)
wife (maybe I should have given her top billing)
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