Adding a 2nd battery?

[Finally Able]

Hi, new to the forum, with a 2021 287 BHS which we have enjoyed a few times at sites with full hookups. This is our 1st TT. We lent it to my daughter and her family yesterday for weekend -- I dropped it off at a NH state park CG with no hookups. I told them of the importance of being mindful of trailer resources (water, LP, DC power) when dry camping.

Anyway, I got call this a.m. saying battery is dead -- fridge and water heater were on LP setting, LED backlight on stovetop dials left on as nightlight for young children. They also used the radio for a couple hours.

Though I haven't dry camped (at least with access to such luxuries!) I'd have thought the battery would have carried them further. I realize there are inherent draws (appliances mentioned, LP leak detector, Furrion entertainment system on standby mode whenever not in use, etc.)

1. Am I right or wrong? and
2. Should I install a 2nd battery? and
3. How can this be avoided in future in terms of power management?

Many thanks for any replies.

[JimHanus]

Originally Posted by Finally Able

Hi, new to the forum, with a 2021 287 BHS which we have enjoyed a few times at sites with full hookups. This is our 1st TT. We lent it to my daughter and her family yesterday for weekend -- I dropped it off at a NH state park CG with no hookups. I told them of the importance of being mindful of trailer resources (water, LP, DC power) when dry camping.

Anyway, I got call this a.m. saying battery is dead -- fridge and water heater were on LP setting, LED backlight on stovetop dials left on as nightlight for young children. They also used the radio for a couple hours.

Though I haven't dry camped (at least with access to such luxuries!) I'd have thought the battery would have carried them further. I realize there are inherent draws (appliances mentioned, LP leak detector, Furrion entertainment system on standby mode whenever not in use, etc.)

1. Am I right or wrong? and
2. Should I install a 2nd battery? and
3. How can this be avoided in future in terms of power management?

Many thanks for any replies.

First off, we would need to know what battery is in it, what all the battery specs are (should be on the battery) and how old the battery is.

[67L48]

Yes, we need a lot more information than you offered.

Rule 1: the battery provided by the dealership is garbage and will only just barely suffice for most reasons.

Rule 2: batteries wear out. They may wear out even faster if not properly cared for.

All of the details are out there for your reading pleasure. For example, if you want to know more about what it means to “properly care for” a battery, there are literally entire websites devoted to 12V battery systems.

Anyway, *if* your family truly was that miserly in using power *and* the battery died, then that battery is probably toast.

If someone is niggardly with his use of power, he should only end up using around 20 amps in a given day (including furnace). Thus, for a 3-night weekend camping, a total of around 60 amps should be enough ... thus, a 120-Ah battery should suffice. Any more than that and a 2nd battery (or charging scheme) will be required.

So, first step is to probably grab a new Group 29 battery with north of 110 Ah rating. Advance Auto has a decent “marine/RV” battery for around $90. They have served my needs.

[Jagiven]

Welcome Aboard. In theory you should be able to go more than a day. With a 2021 model I suspect you should have a brand new battery. But??? did the dealer use an old battery, or did you get a bad one?? Do you know what type and size battery do you have? They go by group #. Most campers seem to have a group 24 dual purpose battery (dealer installs the battery, not Jayco).

Dual batteries will give you a lot more life, but if one battery only lasted 1 evening, two batteries of the same rating will last two days. We have been able to go 5 days on a single group 24 battery, but we have to be very conservative with our power usage.

If they used the furnace it is a major power hog. The fan consumes a lot of power, and can drain the battery in a single day.

I would have the battery checked. Virtually any good automotive shop or part store can check it. Make sure it is charge first, and I like to see it off the charger for a few hours before having it checked.

Next, check the fluid levels in the cells. Each cell needs to be flooded, top of the cell should always be covered with fluid, and ideally below the bottom of the plastic ring. If it is low, ONLY add DISTILLED water, nothing else, never any tap water. The minerals will damage the cells.

Before buying a second battery a couple questions. How do you foresee using the camper?? Lots of boondocking or almost always with electrical hookups? If there is a lot of boondocking, then you should do some serious considerations. How long are you going to go out? Do you need the furnace? What are the power drains (amps) when just sitting idle (CO2/gas alarm, radio, JCommand, etc). Do you want to use all the features like when connected to shore power, or are you willing to be conservative??

There lots of options. Add a second cheap dual purpose battery. Upgrade to a single larger true deep cycle battery, or maybe make it a dual. Better yet, dual 6 volt golf cart batteries (lots of amp hours). Then there is the expensive option Lithium batteries (lot more amp hours, and can drain down lower).

One thing to note, if you are planning to go dual batteries, it is best to get two out of the same lot. Without getting technical, basically they will charge and discharge at a similar rate.

Lots of things to think about, I hope you and the kids will have a good time with your camper.

[CAG]

Lots of good advice but in a nutshell. One 12 volt battery will not last the night boondocking if you run the furnace. With kids using the lights, radio, and other electrical it "might" make the night but probably not.



We boondocked and hunted back areas of Arizona (still do) for many years and the minimum is 2-6 volt golf cart batteries. If you are camping with full hookups you are fine with one 12 volt. Anything else you need more amps.



And as I mentioned a single 12 volt will not last the night if you run the furnace. Ask me how I know. If you have a generator you can make it with a 12 volt but it is still going to be marginal.

[Finally Able]

Thanks to all replies -- I'm picking up the trailer tomorrow and will be able to get more info about battery -- group type etc. I was told at purchase the dealer nstalls Interstate deep cycles, but I didn't verify once we had possession.

[Tad]

Or you can go solar . I have a Renigy 400 watt solar , 2 6 volt batteries that are 225Ah each... I boondock for about 7 days at a time in the mountains of Az. not really conserving on the lights. Watch Satellite TV in the evenings for 2 to 3hours a night. charge phones fans, walkie talkies. . Full charge on batteries every evening. After 7 days and leaving in the afternoon batteries were fully charges whe we left to go home.

[67L48]

Originally Posted by Tad

[...] 2 6 volt batteries that are 225Ah each... [...]

Just be careful. It would be easy for someone to read that and infer that two 6V batteries at 225Ah each would mean that the pair would provide 450Ah ... which, of course, isn’t how that works.

[Finally Able]

To all responders, again, thanks. I picked up the trailer yesterday and opened up the battery box -- it is a new Interstate HD24-DP, but I can't find much info about the amp hours. I've read online estimates that it's no higher than the low 70s, so it seems insufficient to the task. Is is better to add another identical battery (from the same lot if possible) or should I just upgrade to a higher group #? I may bring it to our local Interstate dealer and ask what their recommendation is, but I'd love to hear what you all say.

Also, I'm intrigued by solar -- this unit is prewired for 300W, but so far our camping has been at wooded sites here in New England. CGs with open sites seem to have campers parked cheek to jowl, which we are not at all interested in. Our plan is to travel out west next year, where there'll be more sky (and from what I've read, more people, doing just like us.) That's something I'll look into more.

[Jagiven]

Originally Posted by Finally Able

To all responders, again, thanks. I picked up the trailer yesterday and opened up the battery box -- it is a new Interstate HD24-DP, but I can't find much info about the amp hours. I've read online estimates that it's no higher than the low 70s, so it seems insufficient to the task. Is is better to add another identical battery (from the same lot if possible) or should I just upgrade to a higher group #? I may bring it to our local Interstate dealer and ask what their recommendation is, but I'd love to hear what you all say.

That is your standard cheap dual purpose group 24 battery.

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/products/hd24-dp.

It's amp hour rating is 64, but you really can only get about 1/2 of that (32 amps) out of the battery before it is considered dead.

Dual purpose battery is good for boats. It has thinner plates that will allow a motor starter to draw lots of power quickly. But the plates are thicker than Automotive batteries, so you can use it for a trolling motor or RV too.

If you plan to boondock, I would consider dual 6 volt golf cart batteries are the way to go (real thick plates). Otherwise dual larger 12 volt batteries will work too, they just do not hold as many amps. I am pickup up a Sam's Club group 31 battery today. I like to boondock, but there is not a lot of places around here. I now have a generator to top off the battery as needed.

[67L48]

The answers to most of your questions depend greatly on the type of camping you do.

Group 24 batteries are going to have 60-75 Amp hours. Since batteries should never be used beyond 50%, that gives your around 30 - 40 amps. So, for weekend warriors (2 nights), a single Group 24 battery probably works OK with. Small trailers with light usage of appliances and furnace can get by on 15-20 Amps per day.

If you camp in heavily wooded areas, then solar is tricky. If you camp out in the open near a lake, then solar might be great. In CO, solar would work pretty good, but I never invested in that tech. I don't know how it works in NH or where you camp.

If you camp for a week without power, then a bank of 4 batteries might be perfect. Maybe an inverter generator is even better.

The path forward is really personal and should be tailored to your habits. As I mentioned above, I preferred a single large battery with ~110-120 Ah. That would get me through the long weekends. I have an old 1980s Honda EX650 that I use to top off my battery as needed. Multiple battery arrays wasn't something that interested me -- heavy and expensive. But, that's not "right," it's just the solution that worked well for me.

[Finally Able]

Originally Posted by 67L48

The answers to most of your questions depend greatly on the type of camping you do.

Group 24 batteries are going to have 60-75 Amp hours. Since batteries should never be used beyond 50%, that gives your around 30 - 40 amps. So, for weekend warriors (2 nights), a single Group 24 battery probably works OK with. Small trailers with light usage of appliances and furnace can get by on 15-20 Amps per day.

If you camp in heavily wooded areas, then solar is tricky. If you camp out in the open near a lake, then solar might be great. In CO, solar would work pretty good, but I never invested in that tech. I don't know how it works in NH or where you camp.

If you camp for a week without power, then a bank of 4 batteries might be perfect. Maybe an inverter generator is even better.

The path forward is really personal and should be tailored to your habits. As I mentioned above, I preferred a single large battery with ~110-120 Ah. That would get me through the long weekends. I have an old 1980s Honda EX650 that I use to top off my battery as needed. Multiple battery arrays wasn't something that interested me -- heavy and expensive. But, that's not "right," it's just the solution that worked well for me.

Thanks! Given the fact that we'll (sadly and reluctantly) be winterizing the trailer in the next few weeks, I'll hold off on any battery purchase until until we go back out. No sense in wasting 1st 6 mos of warranty.

[Finally Able]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

That is your standard cheap dual purpose group 24 battery.

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/products/hd24-dp.

It's amp hour rating is 64, but you really can only get about 1/2 of that (32 amps) out of the battery before it is considered dead.

Dual purpose battery is good for boats. It has thinner plates that will allow a motor starter to draw lots of power quickly. But the plates are thicker than Automotive batteries, so you can use it for a trolling motor or RV too.

If you plan to boondock, I would consider dual 6 volt golf cart batteries are the way to go (real thick plates). Otherwise dual larger 12 volt batteries will work too, they just do not hold as many amps. I am pickup up a Sam's Club group 31 battery today. I like to boondock, but there is not a lot of places around here. I now have a generator to top off the battery as needed.

Thanks! Given the fact that we'll (sadly and reluctantly) be winterizing the trailer in the next few weeks, I'll hold off on any battery purchase until until we go back out. No sense in wasting 1st 6 mos of warranty.

[Finally Able]

Originally Posted by Tad

Or you can go solar . I have a Renigy 400 watt solar , 2 6 volt batteries that are 225Ah each... I boondock for about 7 days at a time in the mountains of Az. not really conserving on the lights. Watch Satellite TV in the evenings for 2 to 3hours a night. charge phones fans, walkie talkies. . Full charge on batteries every evening. After 7 days and leaving in the afternoon batteries were fully charges whe we left to go home.

TT is prewired for 300W solar panel. I know next to nothing about this issue, and haven't spent any time yet educating myself, but I will at some point. What I do know is this: problem with solar for us is that, until we get out west, or into a coastal park, our CG sites are apt to be wooded (we are in NH) so it wouldn't do us much good. That said, we are looking forward to doing more traveling out west, hopefully next year!

[Jagiven]

Originally Posted by Finally Able

Thanks! Given the fact that we'll (sadly and reluctantly) be winterizing the trailer in the next few weeks, I'll hold off on any battery purchase until until we go back out. No sense in wasting 1st 6 mos of warranty.

If my battery did not die two weeks ago, I would do the same.

If you do not have a multimeter, I would recommend picking one up. As a homeowner you normally do not need a fancy one. The last one I picked up has a clamp style amp meter. Very handy tool. You just stick the "hot" wire through the clamp, and you can read the amp draw at that moment. Note, if you clamp both the hot and neutral at the same time, it will read zero amps. There is an add on device that separates the wires so you can clamp on and read items plugged into an outlet.

One of the things I did with the shore power disconnected, while at home, I clamped the positive power lead, took a reading. Then dug through the TT, until I found all the parasite devices that were pulling power (amps added up to the main power draw). I have also done the same while using the TT, like 12 volt power at the frig, water heater. I did the lights (clamped at the battery, and turned them on/off to get my readings). Very handy when trying to figure out how much battery you need or how fast somethings like the finance can drain the battery. If you are going to boondock, it is a good idea to understand your parasite drains and power consumption.

[fisduki]

Originally Posted by Finally Able

TT is prewired for 300W solar panel. I know next to nothing about this issue, and haven't spent any time yet educating myself, but I will at some point. What I do know is this: problem with solar for us is that, until we get out west, or into a coastal park, our CG sites are apt to be wooded (we are in NH) so it wouldn't do us much good. That said, we are looking forward to doing more traveling out west, hopefully next year!

If you want to learn about solar and hear honest reviews of all the components needed to run solar, not just the components, but the tools needed to install all of it. This guy knows his stuff! He is a bit of a geek and quickly gets over my head, but great information.

https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse

He lives in an RV full time also has a great website about solar as well.

https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/

Be forewarned, I have not slept much in the last week since being introduced to him.

[Finally Able]

Originally Posted by fisduki

If you want to learn about solar and hear honest reviews of all the components needed to run solar, not just the components, but the tools needed to install all of it. This guy knows his stuff! He is a bit of a geek and quickly gets over my head, but great information.

https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse

He lives in an RV full time also has a great website about solar as well.

https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/

Be forewarned, I have not slept much in the last week since being introduced to him.

Then I'd better refill my Ambien prescription! And thanks for the link.

[Finally Able]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

If my battery did not die two weeks ago, I would do the same.

If you do not have a multimeter, I would recommend picking one up. As a homeowner you normally do not need a fancy one. The last one I picked up has a clamp style amp meter. Very handy tool. You just stick the "hot" wire through the clamp, and you can read the amp draw at that moment. Note, if you clamp both the hot and neutral at the same time, it will read zero amps. There is an add on device that separates the wires so you can clamp on and read items plugged into an outlet.

One of the things I did with the shore power disconnected, while at home, I clamped the positive power lead, took a reading. Then dug through the TT, until I found all the parasite devices that were pulling power (amps added up to the main power draw). I have also done the same while using the TT, like 12 volt power at the frig, water heater. I did the lights (clamped at the battery, and turned them on/off to get my readings). Very handy when trying to figure out how much battery you need or how fast somethings like the finance can drain the battery. If you are going to boondock, it is a good idea to understand your parasite drains and power consumption.

Helpful! And man, I hear the words "parasitic drain" and I cringe -- spent a lot of time personally and had 3 different mechanics try to find source of drain on a 2001 F450 dump truck, to no avail. Battery would die practically overnight -- I finally installed a disconnect. Can't tell you how many batteries I replaced. Luckily, the parts store would just give me a new one because the dead one would still be under warranty. I sold that vehicle this past spring, and told the buyer (a farmer I've known forever) not to forget disconnecting it after every use.

[Spower]

check if your fridge has a heater connected with the light in the fridge, it is a big energy draw, i disconnected mine.

[eagle55]

As part of the package I negotiated from the dealer was to have (2) new deep cycle batteries which I got. Unfortunately they could not install the second battery because there wasn't enough space between the A frame tongue. So when I got home with the trailer I built a raised battery rack out of (2) pieces of 1-1/2" angle steel.
If you are interested, here are some photos of how I expanded the space for batteries by raising them up on top of the tongue. Looking at photos of your model it could be that you will run out of room for a second battery just as I did. Note I did do a bit of welding to make the rack, but you could probably get by with carriage bolts. Also I don't advise welding directly to the tongue.