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Old 06-16-2011, 10:32 PM   #11
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Not aware that the Reese snap-up brackets come with bolts that were long enough to go through the TT tube A-frame.

This is my 5/16-18 bolt through and backer plate (1/4" x 5 1/2" x 6" tall) set-up with the Reese #58392:





Prior thread on the subject: https://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?t=2578

Those of you towing with the Reese HP Dual Cam make sure that you have the chain hanger bracket attached to the cam correctly, if it's on backwards it will pull the snap-up bracket 'outward' causing it to bend.

Bob
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:45 PM   #12
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On the old style, the 'U' should be facing inward, correct? The new style should have the bends coming in toward the trailer.

I'm thinking of using self tapping bolts instead of drilling all the way through the frame. Does anyone see any issue with this?
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
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On the old style, the 'U' should be facing inward, correct? The new style should have the bends coming in toward the trailer.....snip
Early "HP" version the U-bolt threads should be facing outward:



Latest "HP" version the U-bolt threads should be facing inward:



Self tappers may work on the snap-up bracket, all depends if the threads will hold the down-ward force placed on the bracket. The problem is the thin wall of the A-frame tube.

Bob
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:14 AM   #14
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Good deal. I've got the old version, and that is how I run the chains. I guess I need to find some material for a backing plate and then run the bolts all the way through.

Edit: On second thought, the threads don't need to hold the downward force of the bracket. The bracket itself does that by sitting on top of the frame. All the bolts do is keep the bracket aligned properly so that all of the force is squarely on top of the frame. I think that through bolts are still the way to go, but self tappers would probably be sufficient.
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:07 AM   #15
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snip......On second thought, the threads don't need to hold the downward force of the bracket. The bracket itself does that by sitting on top of the frame. All the bolts do is keep the bracket aligned properly so that all of the force is squarely on top of the frame....snip
"Downward force" may have been a poor choice of wording on my part under a static state, but there is a degree of 'load' being applied to the threads and this is where the tubular wall thickness comes into play when using self tappers (amount of thread contact with a given tubular wall thickness).

Before I bolted my brackets to the frame I could see a little daylight appear between the bracket and the frame during the spring bar lifting process because of the outward arc/downward force of the chain under load prior to locking the snap-up bracket. It should be noted that I have the Reese HP Dual Cam/WDH.

Thinking out loud here: With a Reese HP Dual Cam/WDH there isn't any chain movement during a TV turn, but with a standard WDH the chain moves for/aft during a TV turn which puts additional load considerations against the snap-up bracket. The snap-up bracket wanting to 'slide' along or pull over the top of the frame (under heavy tongue weight conditions) becomes a real possibility and the bolts are taking the load under these conditions.

Bob
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:05 AM   #16
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I concur with your thoughts... I'm running a DC as well, so there shouldn't be any movement during turns. That said, a couple extra bolts can't hurt!!

If you lift your trailer/TV up high enough with the tongue jack during the hitching process, you should be able to take away any 'outward' force created by the chains during hookup. I usually jack it up high enough to do by hand, so there shouldn't be any tension on the brackets until the tongue is lowered.

Either way, I'll be looking for some backing plate material so that I can do it right the first time. I'm not a metal working by any means, so what is the best place to get some small pieces of plate?
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:56 AM   #17
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snip........I'm not a metal working by any means, so what is the best place to get some small pieces of plate?
Good question, I've worked in the manufacturing sector for years so I have sources in my area....., but you may want to call any place that builds utility trailers, a place that does welding/cutting, scrap yard, etc..

Bob
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:07 PM   #18
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I've been closely watching this thread since I'm seriously considering getting the Reese DC when I buy my TT. I have had a little metal fab experience and I do not feel self tapping screws into the machine would be stong enough; there would not be enough threads to prevent stripping. Through bolts would be better but, even with a backer plate, some defomation of the tube frame will eventually occur, causing the bolts to loosen up. What I've seen done in situations like this is to drill a clearance hole in the frame side where the bracket goes that will clear the bolt being used, then drill a hole in the opposite side large enough to take a heavy walled spacer tube the length of the outside dimension of the tube frame minus one wall thickness. The bolt would be inserted in the bracket and the frame side. The spacer tube then will be slipped over the bolt and the washers and nut would then be applied and torqued down. This is actually stronger than if one could somehow get into the tube frame to put washers and a nut on the bolt since the longer bolt length allows the bolt to stretch slightly ensuring it will stay tight longer (this technique is often used on steel beam and column construction to avoid snapping bolts when stressed since longer bolts can give more than short ones).

Being paranoid, I plan on going a step further. Once I determine where the bracket has to go, I'll drill the holes through both frame sides. On the side opposite where the bracket goes, I'll drill holes just under the bolt holes large enough to allow the spacer tube to go through. Then I'll use a small grinder (like in a Dremel tool) to break just enough of the web between the holes to allow a small diameter rod, screwdriver, or really stiff wire to pass through.

To install the bracket, I'll set it on the frame, temporarily insert the bolts, tape the braket in place so I don't have to chase it all over the place, then remove the bolts. Using a rod, screwdriver, whatever, insert a spacer tube through one of the large holes and manuever it through the broken web until the tube is aligned with the holes above then reinsert the bolt. Same for the other bolt. Because of the clamp screw, I would also use a spacer plate, same as Rustic Eagle's (great idea, btw) to reduce or, hopefully eliminate frame deformation when the clamp screw is cinched down, then apply the needed washers and nuts and torque them down. Then the clamp screw can be cinched down.

This all sounds like a lot of work but it would ensure that both sides of the tube frame are sandwiched between the fasteners, pretty much preventing any chance of frame deformation which can cause loosening of the fasteners. Like I said, I'm paranoid.

Steel plate can be bought from some industrial metal suppliers; the ones that will deal in small quantities will cut it for you for a small charge. Just order it cut from 6" cold rolled bar stock. Or, if you don't mind doing the cutting yourself (it can be cut with a hacksaw with a lot of patience), you might get lucky and find what you need at a scrap yard. You should be able to find the heavy walled tube at the same places. I would go for a wall thickness of at least 3/16". Tempting though it may be, I wouldn't trust water pipe. Some really high pressure hydraulic pipe may be strong enough.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:23 PM   #19
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Just got off the phone with Reese tech support and confirmed a couple of things -

They only produce one trunnion head for all WDH setups (for 2" receivers). That means that the head I currently have is rated up to 1,500lbs, so I won't need a new one. Same thing goes for the cams. The only thing I need to get is new bars, and a new shank (mine states clearly on the side that it's rated for 12k, 1,200tw). I need new snap up brackets as well, since one of mine is bent.

On that note, I asked them about bolting down the brackets, and they specifically advised against bolting all the way through the frame due to distortion issues. He said that self tapping bolts are more than sufficient.
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Old 06-17-2011, 01:54 PM   #20
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snip.....On that note, I asked them about bolting down the brackets, and they specifically advised against bolting all the way through the frame due to distortion issues. He said that self tapping bolts are more than sufficient.
I can understand Reese making that statement because they have no control over the tube wall thickness, and/or the bolt tightening torque being applied, especially on the TT lighter frames. IMO when using a backer plate with a snap-up bracket common sense and care should be taken in its application. Sizing the backer plate so that it rests against the rounded corners of the tubular frame will also address potential distortion concerns.

I do however agree that in the case of thru-bolting (in the event of) a Dual Cam Frame Plate on a tubular frame an "inside" spacer block should be considered do to the bolt torque requirements of this particular application.

My understanding is that drilling/tapping any type of hole at or into the corner radius of tubular steel will compromise the inherent strength of the tube, or collapsing the flat surfaces of the opposing sidewalls.

Using self tappers can be effective on the heavier TT tubular frames, but the lighter frames one may loose adequate thread contact.

Bob
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