Anyone running a 1,500lbs WDH?

[altar1]

Originally Posted by TexasA&M

Howdy -

I have a Jayco 32BHDS that has a dry weight of 8,300lbs (weighed at the factory). I do not yet know the loaded weight, but I would suspect it is in the 9,300-9,500lb range (GVWR is 10klbs). I plan on stopping by the scale one our next trip (next month).

I am currently running a 1,200lb Reese Straight Line hitch and have been wondering lately if this is big enough. If my trailer weighed ~8klbs from the factory, the tongue weight was already pushing 1,200lbs. Now that I've loaded it up (storage in the front is FULL), my tongue weight is probably quite a bit higher than the 1,200lb rating of the hitch.

I really started to think about this after the last trip, when I realized that one of my snap up brackets was bent. No idea how it happened as there is not any binding on my hitch, but it did (not sure how too much weight would be a factor either, as that piece of equipment is the same on most all hitches). The hitch was used when I bought it, so that may have played a factor in the failure.

Anyhow, I'm just wondering who out there is running a 1,500lb WDH, and how big your trailers are. Did you convert from a smaller hitch, or did you start out big? I'm looking at converting, and from what I can tell, I would only need to buy new bars and a new shank. I can't find any ratings on the trunnion head, but etrailer.com only sells one, regardless of the weight rating your going to use. Same goes for the cams on the DC system.

Let me know what you guys think. Before I get flamed for not knowing my weight, let me remind you that I'm going to the scale on my next trip, before I make any changes (other than getting new, heavy duty snap up brackets).

My trailer weighs about the same as yours. Equalizer recomended a 1400 lb hitch, so that's what I did. Works fine.

Tom

[TexasA&M]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Using self tappers can be effective on the heavier TT tubular frames, but the lighter frames one may loose adequate thread contact.

Bob

Would you consider the Jayco frame to be heavier or lighter? The frame under the trailer seems pretty heavy duty to me, but I'm not sure about the A Frame.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by TexasA&M

Would you consider the Jayco frame to be heavier or lighter? The frame under the trailer seems pretty heavy duty to me, but I'm not sure about the A Frame.

I really don't know how much tension gets placed on the side bolts (they may be there mostly to prevent side shifting) so it's possible self tappers may be strong enough. However, the threads made in a frame by self tapping screws will never be as strong as a nut unless the wall of the frame is as thick and hard as the nut.

Tube frames that are the same strength as a channel or I-beam frame can have thinner walls so I'm guessing the walls of the tube on the tongue A-frame is going to be thinner than the web or flanges of the I-beam on the main frame. Even if the tube walls are as thick as the web of the main frame I-beam, that's not a lot of meat for the screw to bite into. Again, it would depend on how much tension gets put on those bolts.

Another concern, should you decide to use the self tappers, is that top clamp screw. If you just tighten it against the opposite wall of the tube, the tube would most likely distort and allow the screw to loosen. I would drill a clearance in the tube wall so the clamp screw can pass through and bear on the tube wall alongside the bracket. That way, the tube wall will be sandwiched between the screw tip and the bracket without worries of distorting the tube.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by TexasA&M

Would you consider the Jayco frame to be heavier or lighter? The frame under the trailer seems pretty heavy duty to me, but I'm not sure about the A Frame.

I added my backer plate over five years ago and I did consult Reese before incorporating it. When I installed my Dual Cam (I used the self tappers) five years ago I also contacted Jayco to confirm the wall thickness on the tube frame on my 2005 Eagle, because I was curious about the amount of thread contact with my 1,200lb spring bar rating. Still looking for the old reference data, but I do know that the tubular frame thickness used on my Eagle would be considered a "heavy gauge" compared to the lite TT A-frames, and I would assume that your model Jayco wouldn't be anything less than mine.

I do recall a prior discussion on another forum a while back on the size of the Reese Dual Cam self tapper threads and the gauge of a similar TT tube wall thickness as mine, and the conclusion was that it was acceptable but not ideal.

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

For what its worth, when it comes to self-tappers I believe that a thread-forming screw (type AB) has a higher resistance to back-out than a thread-cutting screw.

Bob

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

For what its worth, when it comes to self-tappers I believe that a thread-forming screw (type AB) has a higher resistance to back-out than a thread-cutting screw.

Bob

Probably true since thread forming screws work by displacing metal rather than cutting it. Loctite should take care of any concerns for backout. My chief worry would be for the threads stripping.

After looking where the stresses occur, it seems the purpose of the screws are to prevent lateral movement and tension would be minimal so self tappers should be adequate. It certainly would be less work. I would still drill a clearance hole for the top clamp screw so it would bear against the tube wall closest to the bracket. That way there would be no frame distortion.

[TexasA&M]

How can you tell the difference between the two styles of self tapping bolts?

[Lady Fitzgerald]

The thread cutting type has a notch cut in the end to give it a cutting edge and a place for the chips that are cut away to exit. The thread forming type just have threads that start to taper at the end.

[Rustic Eagle]

Great ideas being exchanged, which of course gets me thinking............,

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

snip......After looking where the stresses occur, it seems the purpose of the screws are to prevent lateral movement and tension would be minimal so self tappers should be adequate.

I tend to agree when using the Reese Dual Cam/WDH (no for/aft chain movement in TV turns), but I believe the screws may incur "some" load (vertical or otherwise, possibly minimal as well) keeping the bracket from pulling itself over the top of the frame with the heavier spring bars (1,200lbs plus), essentially that's what happening without the screws.

In the case of a standard WDH I would think the lateral forces against the screws (and the bracket saddle over the top of the frame) would be far greater than a Dual Cam application under the same 1,200lb (plus) spring bar load conditions because of the for/aft chain movement during a TV turn.

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

snip......I would still drill a clearance hole for the top clamp screw so it would bear against the tube wall closest to the bracket. That way there would be no frame distortion.

Wouldn't you actually loose stability of the snap-up bracket saddle over the top of the frame by having the clamp screw contact point further away from its point of attachment (threaded area) on the snap-up bracket considering there is only a 1/4 turn of tightening?

To eliminate the possibility of distortion a 2" wide x 6" tall (height of tube frame) backer plate (tack welded to frame) between the tube frame and clamp screw could be easily incorporated. The backer plate I utilized captured the clamp screw as well.

Just thinking out loud here.

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by TexasA&M

How can you tell the difference between the two styles of self tapping bolts?

Adding to Jeannie's comments, if you go to a store that sells fasteners they will be identified as "Thread-Forming Screws", and they should also state the Type (A, B, AB, etc.).

Bob

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Great ideas being exchanged, which of course gets me thinking...

Uhoh! You're thinking. That could be dangerous! :hihi:

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

...I tend to agree when using the Reese Dual Cam/WDH (no for/aft chain movement in TV turns), but I believe the screws may incur "some" load (vertical or otherwise, possibly minimal as well) keeping the bracket from pulling itself over the top of the frame with the heavier spring bars (1,200lbs plus), essentially that's what happening without the screws...

Granted, the screws would get some load but most would be sheer instead of tension. One could always try the self tappers and just watch them for signs of loosening. If so, then through bolts could be installed.

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

...Wouldn't you actually loose stability of the snap-up bracket saddle over the top of the frame by having the clamp screw contact point further away from its point of attachment (threaded area) on the snap-up bracket considering there is only a 1/4 turn of tightening?...

I don't think so. If the clamp was being installed over a channel frame, the screw would go all the way through anyway. Besides, the clearance hole would help stabilize it.

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

...To eliminate the possibility of distortion a 2" wide x 6" tall (height of tube frame) backer plate (tack welded to frame) between the tube frame and clamp screw could be easily incorporated. The backer plate I utilized captured the clamp screw as well.

Just thinking out loud here.

Bob

If using self tappers, the backing plate would become almost redundant, making using the clearance hole so the clamp screw has something solid to bear against more attractive.

Now I've been thinking (be afraid, be very afraid!). If the self tappers prove to not be up to the task, one may be able to drill a hole in the opposite side of the frame to clear a socket that will fit a nut that will fit the bolt on the other side. I don't know if a hole that size would be enough to significantly weaken the frame.

[bounder]

Why not tack weld each side of the bracket? Two 1" welds on each side?

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by bounder

Why not tack weld each side of the bracket? Two 1" welds on each side?

I know of a couple of cases where that was done, and it's a good option. The only draw back is addressing any potential bracket issues in a remote area (replacement, etc.) if a weld cutter isn't available.

Bob

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Welding is a bit permanent. If something should happen to the bracket, replacing it would be a touch dicey.

I don't what the bracket is made from but if it is forged steel, welding it could embrittle the metal.

[bounder]

You can remove the bracket by grinding the welds with a die grinder or a 4" angel grinder.

[Rustic Eagle]

Jennie,

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

snip.......I don't think so. If the clamp was being installed over a channel frame, the screw would go all the way through anyway.......snip

Good point.

Originally Posted by Lady Fitzgerald

snip......If the self tappers prove to not be up to the task, one may be able to drill a hole in the opposite side of the frame to clear a socket that will fit a nut that will fit the bolt on the other side. I don't know if a hole that size would be enough to significantly weaken the frame.

That would work......., "but", I might even consider removing the welded metal end cap at the leading edge of the A-frame tube and feed a bolt thru from the inside of the tube....has been done!

Ok, I'm done thinking

Bob

[rescuebub]

I'm glad to hear all the ideas, I do worry about having the bracket clamping bolt passing thru the frame to the inner wall, just incase of a future bracket failure. When my brackets fail the clamping bolt gets bent to a vertical position and if that were to happen in the frame, I worry about extensive frame damage. If one was to weld on the bracket, anyone have an opinion about frame weakening where a weld would be applied?

I'm also considering fabricating a spacer between the backside frame wall and the bracket near the clamp bolt area, if I can take up the void between the frame and the back of the bracket, it would take all the stress off of the clamping bolt and hopefully keeping it from bending.

[hausknwa]

We purchased a 322FKS about a year ago. I also purchased a 1,200 Lb WD hitch with it as our old unit was much lighter. On the way home from the dealer the brackets bent severely. I took it back to the dealer and he installed heavy duty brackets. Again by the time I arrived home (30 miles) the brackets were bent. On the second return trip to the dealer the manager informed me that they never should have sold me that hitch (even though that is what I asked for!) and installed a 1,500 Lb. hitch. We have put over 8,000 miles on the unit and have not had a single problem since. Buy the way there was no charge for the larger hitch. I am really happy with our dealer and the hitch. My experience says go to the heavier unit.
Hope my experience helps.

[TexasA&M]

I will be ordering the necessary components to upgrade to 1,500lbs WDH before our next trip. Did you bold the brackets to the frame, or are you just using the locator bolt?

I'm looking forward to the upgrade and will be interested to see if the ride is any different.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by TexasA&M

I will be ordering the necessary components to upgrade to 1,500lbs WDH before our next trip.......snip

Based on your 32BHDS TT weights noted in your original post (8,300lb ship weight, loaded weight range of 9,300lbs to 9,500lbs) I tend to agree on the 1,500lb rated spring bars.

Bob