Anyone towing with a Mini Van?

[TheTick]

Hi All,

Very excited about our first travel trailer. We went with the 184BH because is was the most affordable lightweight model that sleeps 5. We are limited by the towing capacity of our Odyssey rated at 3500lbs. I've never towed anything in my life so I spent countless hours learning as much as I could online. Wonderful community you guys have here! I was really concerned about keeping the tongue weight down since the Odyssey owners manual does not recommend the use of weight distribution hitches. Tons of people arguing online (in other forums) about safely going over tow and hitch capacities with proper setups. Apparently, there are some highly respected professionals that will setup your TV to pull twice as much as it's rating. I decided to play it safe and go with the 184bh which had the lightest hitch weight compared to similar models. I'm right where I should be weight wise.

I'm going to pick up the trailer in week and I'm hoping my first drive home will go smoothly. Anyone else towing one of these with a mini van or other TV rated at 3500lbs towing? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[DocBrown]

We towed a '03 Kiwi 17a with a mini-van for about a year. It was not bad. But it was only my wife and me. I would not have used that combination to tow more than a few hundred miles on relatively flat roads. We wanted to travel out west so we got a truck. The short answer to your question is that it is doable under the right circumstances, namely keeping the weight down and not expecting too much from the combo.

However, you are not "right where you should be weight wise". The GVRW of the 184BH is 3500#. Assuming you max out the trailer's weight, and you will with the "stuff" for 5 people, you are already at capacity. Take the weight of all 5 people that will be traveling in the van and subtract that from the towing capacity. Say you, your spouse, and 3 kids, conservatively weigh a total 450#. Now your towing capacity is 3050#. Check your manual for their definition of towing capacity. Often it is the trailer and only the driver. No passengers or cargo. And keep in mind that your kids will grow, and want to take more toys with them. Also subtract the weight of anything you carry in your vehicle while towing.

The dry weight of the trailer is 2,625 so the trailer only has an 875# cargo capacity. This does not include the weight of options such as microwave, awning, A/C, spare tire, etc. There will be a sticker on the outside of the trailer that will state the "shipped weight" which is the "dry weight" plus factory installed options. Add to that the weight of any dealer installed options. Say you have options that weight 200# in total. Now your true "dry weight" is 2825#. Subtract that from the 3050# that's left of your towing capacity. That leave 225# for clothes, cookware, food, toys, TV set, etc. You will eat that capacity up and then some. With a family of 5 I would be hard pressed to think that you would have less than 500# of "stuff". For two people my wife and I carried over 300# of stuff. I would have to say that you are way over your head on this. I know you don't want to hear that though. Hope this works out for you somehow.

Be careful of "highly respected professionals that will setup your TV to pull twice as much as it's rating". Most likely they will make you sign a waver not holding them responsible for what they just did to you towing setup. If something happens, you may be OK from a legal standpoint, but you can leave yourself wide open to civil damages.

[clubhouse]

IMO mini vans don't make for the best Tow vehicles, however if you have the actual weights and made the calculations that you are with in the various weight ratings...GVWR, GCVWR, Receiver Weight Rating, etc and you truly are "right where (you) should be weight wise" I don't think you will have an issue.

I started with a marginal TV/TT combination. It worked, but I ultimately I upgraded TV which now has us looking at larger TT. It's a vicious cycle.

Welcome to the world if RVing.

[TheTick]

Chuck, Thank you so much for your response. I should have mentioned we are a family of 4. My wife barely breaks 100 lbs sopping wet and we are all in at 350lbs (until the kids get older). When I said "sleeps 5" I meant we wanted something with a bit more space. I toiled over all those numbers you mentioned before making my decision and I know we'll be right at our capacity. Manual states 350lbs of passengers with 15lbs of gear each allows for a towing capacity of 3350. The trailer weighs a bit over 2800 so we can carry well over 500lbs.

Read about liability issues, and yes... I would be concerned if I was well over the weight limits. Although I did read debates where people were challenged to provide a single case in which someone was sued for causing injury while towing over capacity. I couldn't find anything, but I'm more worried about safety issues. This is why I did not want to go over the manufacturer rating. I'm sure it would be ok to go over by a couple percent, but I'm ocd and will probably weigh everything that gets loaded and assign maximum allowances for each kid. Honestly, I think it will be part of the fun for me lol.

With that said, your response does have me concerned now. You seem very knowledgable and I'm second guessing myself now. Is there any chance that the trailer could weigh more than whats posted on that yellow sticker in the door jam? I would hate to go on a trip with only the shirts on our backs. Hope I didn't make the wrong choice..

[TheTick]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

IMO mini vans don't make for the best Tow vehicles, however if you have the actual weights and made the calculations that you are with in the various weight ratings...GVWR, GCVWR, Receiver Weight Rating, etc and you truly are "right where (you) should be weight wise" I don't think you will have an issue.

I started with a marginal TV/TT combination. It worked, but I ultimately I upgraded TV which now has us looking at larger TT. It's a vicious cycle.

Welcome to the world if RVing.

Thanks clubhouse. I can see how this can become a vicious cycle lol. My other car will eventually need to be replaced and I'm already looking at better TV's. Although I have read that the Odyssey makes a great TV with it's low center of gravity and HP/torque equivalent to suv's rated at much higher tow capacities. Some say that there is a lot of "marketing" involved with tow ratings. They bump them up for trucks and SUV's when they are no more capable than mini vans.

As long as the trailer doesn't weigh hundreds of pounds more than the yellow sticker on the door jam, I'm good.

[clubhouse]

Yellow sticker = weight as it left the factory + an allowance for propane in the tanks.

Before you load anything in the TT, the only real additions to weight from the yellow sticker are battery(ies) and WD hitch. If your setup is typical, a single group 24 battery will weigh about 50lbs and another 75 for WD hitch w bars. Each of these has a greater net effect on the TT tongue weight which directly effects TV Cargo capacity as I'm sure your research has shown. Roughly, whatever the yellow sticker says for tongue add about 125lbs and should be pretty close as you make calculations.

I too have OCD and can relate. All you need to do is confirm actual weights and make the calculations. It appears you going about this in a sound logical manner.

[Grumpy]

Our son has a 17Z and tows it with an Odessey, he says it handles it fine.

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by DocBrown

The dry weight of the trailer is 2,625 so the trailer only has an 875# cargo capacity. This does not include the weight of options such as microwave, awning, A/C, spare tire, etc. There will be a sticker on the outside of the trailer that will state the "shipped weight" which is the "dry weight" plus factory installed options. Add to that the weight of any dealer installed options.

The yellow sticker is the shipping weight, and on my 154BH, that included everything. The only dealer installed item was the battery - should be the same for the 184BH (check your contract). All our camping gear, tools, outdoor mat, screen tent (blah, blah) weighs under 300# (I've weighed it). Use common sense when you stock your TT....everything we purchased is lightweight. Leave the horse shoes and cast iron cookware home...

I would recommend purchasing a tongue scale. Mine has proven to be a great asset in guiding me in how to pack the travel trailer to keep the tongue weight at my recommended 300#. You haven't stated your tongue weight and it's a very important you find out..... especially if you choose not to use a WDH.

Congratulations on your purchase and welcome to the Jayco (SWIFT) Family!
[ATTACH][/ATTACH]

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

and another 75 for WD hitch w bars. Each of these has a greater net effect on the TT tongue weight which directly effects TV Cargo capacity as I'm sure your research has shown.

The right WDH for your setup (if your hitch will allow) is the Reese 350 Ultralight w/ anti-sway. It weighs 38# total....I just moved over to it and I'm very happy with it....

http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...our-TT-or-P-UP

[TheTick]

Grumpy, Good to hear another Odyssey owner having success. The hitches for the Odyssey are rated at 350lbs. The 17Z has a hitch weight of 395lbs so its encouraging to see that your son has no issues going over the hitch rating. It seems plenty of people go over this rating with no problems, but I wanted to keep it as close as possible. One of the main reasons I chose the 184BH was the hitch weight of 315. Hoping I won't need to use weight distribution. Thanks for chiming in!

[TheTick]

THREEBUTCHERS, Thanks for the tips. I'll look into it!

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by TheTick

Grumpy, Good to hear another Odyssey owner having success. The hitches for the Odyssey are rated at 350lbs. The 17Z has a hitch weight of 395lbs so its encouraging to see that your son has no issues going over the hitch rating. It seems plenty of people go over this rating with no problems, but I wanted to keep it as close as possible. One of the main reasons I chose the 184BH was the hitch weight of 315. Hoping I won't need to use weight distribution. Thanks for chiming in!

Our dealer installed the hitch and IIRC it has a 500 lb rating and he does use equalizers.

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by Threebutchers

The yellow sticker is the shipping weight, and on my 154BH, that included everything. The only dealer installed item was the battery - should be the same for the 184BH (check your contract).

Um, that's pretty much what I said. Factory installed options include things like the awning, etc. However you guys are also forgetting the weight of propane. I don't know if the 184BH can be bought with dual propane tanks or not. Even so, the factory does not fill the propane tanks. In fact, most dealers don't anymore either. They only put in enough to test everything and for the walk though. So if its a single tank, its probably not a big deal, but you certainly have to factor it in with the thin margins you guys are playing with here.

As far as your stuff weighing 300#, that may be. But given your TV, I doubt you have 2 kids with you also. As I said in an earlier post, when we had our Kiwi 17a, our gear didn't weigh more than 350# either. Now add the things needed for a couple of growing children. I know, I've been there.

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by TheTick

One of the main reasons I chose the 184BH was the hitch weight of 315. Hoping I won't need to use weight distribution.

I do find it odd that Honda says you can't use a W/D hitch. I would do a bit more research on that and see what your options are. If I was you, I would certainly be a lot more comfortable with a W/D. Is it a factory installed hitch? If so, I'm thinking that's where the limitation is. I wonder if a good quality 3rd party hitch would solve the issue?

Class III hitches have 2 ratings. Dead weight, meaning tongue simply dropped onto the hitch. And W/D rating. Your biggest limitation is the rear suspension of the TV. Also, have you considered air bags? Airlift makes an airbag kit for the Odyssey. I used them on my Pontiac Montana when I towed with it. They won't increase your towing capacity or tongue weight limit, but they will improve your towing experience and keep the weight on your front tires. Something to consider.

[xkuzme1]

I tow my 184BH with a Jeep Wrangler unlimited (4 dr). Specs for the Wrangler are nearly the same as your minivan. 3500 pounds and 300 tongue. My Jeep tows it well, though not a power house by any means.

There are things that you can do to lessen the tongue weight. You can install a small motorcycle battery (in place of the group 24 battery) if your only intention is to camp with electric hook ups. The battery in that case will be enough to help with the emergency brake away for the trailer brakes. You can also buy a small 1 gallon propane tank or something similar http://www.amazon.com/Worthington-28...+propane+tanks. or http://www.amazon.com/Manchester-Tan...+propane+tanks or http://www.amazon.com/Manchester-Tan...+propane+tanks Is it really necessary for most of your trips to carry around 20 + pounds of propane. If I only run my fridge and water heater on propane, I can make it through half a camping season with one 20 pound propane tank. That is a lot of weight that may not always be needed.

Having enough propane to run the water heater and maybe the stove for a brief time but not taking more than you need will help reduce the tongue weight a great deal.

X

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by DocBrown

I do find it odd that Honda says you can't use a W/D hitch. I would do a bit more research on that and see what your options are. If I was you, I would certainly be a lot more comfortable with a W/D. Is it a factory installed hitch? If so, I'm thinking that's where the limitation is. I wonder if a good quality 3rd party hitch would solve the issue?.......snip

Actually Honda isn't the only manufacture that states a WDH can't be used (on specific models)..., in most cases it's not the supplied OEM receiver that's the limiting factor, but rather the type of vehicle frame used on the specific vehicle in question (ie, unibody, etc.). This also is the reason for limited tongue weights in the Weight Carrying mode on these same models.

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by TheTick

Grumpy, Good to hear another Odyssey owner having success. The hitches for the Odyssey are rated at 350lbs. The 17Z has a hitch weight of 395lbs so its encouraging to see that your son has no issues going over the hitch rating. It seems plenty of people go over this rating with no problems!......snip

I wouldn't assume that "Grumpy's" son is towing above his receiver's weight rating, he may have loaded his 17Z such that the "loaded" tongue weight is within the receiver's weight limits.

Please note that it isn't a safe practice to exceed any TV receiver's (hitch rating) Weight Carrying, and/or Weight Distribution mode limits (OEM receiver or otherwise).

Bob

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by DocBrown

Um, that's pretty much what I said. Factory installed options include things like the awning, etc. However you guys are also forgetting the weight of propane. I don't know if the 184BH can be bought with dual propane tanks or not. Even so, the factory does not fill the propane tanks. In fact, most dealers don't anymore either. They only put in enough to test everything and for the walk though. So if its a single tank, its probably not a big deal, but you certainly have to factor it in with the thin margins you guys are playing with here.

As far as your stuff weighing 300#, that may be. But given your TV, I doubt you have 2 kids with you also. As I said in an earlier post, when we had our Kiwi 17a, our gear didn't weigh more than 350# either. Now add the things needed for a couple of growing children. I know, I've been there.

The shipping weight (of the SWIFT series) includes propane tank and a full load of propane (checked Jaycos website again) - and you can see my shipping sticker below. All in...the shipping weight is 125# over the dry weight listed on the website.

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[Crabman]

They actually do not send the units out with full propane tanks, but add the amount of what the propane would weigh to the sticker. The dealer then fills the tanks if he so chooses. My tanks were full on when I picked up my trailer.

[Threebutchers]

Originally Posted by Crabman

They actually do not send the units out with full propane tanks

Very true - my dealer filled mine as well and noted "N/C" on the contract....and it was N/C based on the deal I worked

Best wishes TheTick! Get some pictures up soon and start getting ready