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Old 03-24-2022, 08:00 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by DocBrown View Post
Have you had to make an evasive move in heavy traffic moving at 60mph+? Have you had your truck slide out from under you in a heavy rain? Or even a light rain? 15% of tongue will help, as will a 3/4 ton truck, but not prevent sway in those situations. I've had it happen. Without the sway control I'm pretty sure I would have lost the trailer. Of course "shaking" the steering back and forth didn't introduce sway. It can't replicate the violent movement of the things I mentioned above. Subconsciously you won't even get that close in a test like that.

Again, you don't know what you don't know until it happens. It's cheap insurance. You spent probably $100k on your rig. How much is sway control? I sure hope it never happens to you, because it's scary as all get out. My trailers have all typically had a 13%-15% tongue weight. The band-aid is over confidance.
Interesting how everyone is cherry picking my comments and making the assumption I'm against the use of WDH's. Nothing is farther from the truth. I commented how a WDH distributes axle weight, and quantify the process with numbers. I explained when a WDH is very effective, and when it's not, and elaborate further with numbers.

You claim you had 13-15% tongue weight and still needed a WDH. What year, make and model truck? What kind of trailer? Loaded trailer weight? Loaded tongue weight? TV front and rear axle weights before and after installing the WDH? What was the WDH bar rating? 500, 1000, 1500 lbs?

With numbers we can make this debate a bit more objective and productive. Otherwise, it goes nowhere.

Are for your comment about me shaking the steering wheel not being equivalent to a realworld situation, well, you completely missed the point. This is a totally prudent test to make to determine whether you have any immediate handling issues. It's perfectly safe as long it's accomplished under controlled conditions, away from all traffic. If you're saying none of my comments carry any weight because I didn't go out and place myself in harms way to prove my point, that's ludicrous.

Lastly, you asked if I've ever had to make an "evasive move" in heavy traffic. I would ask you, who hasn't. Being involved in a number of evasive moves is exactly why I ALWAYS used a WDH with our 1/2-ton truck. As for why a WDH is not necessary with our 1-ton SRW diesel truck (in reference to our specific application), please reread my post.
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Old 03-24-2022, 08:10 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by crockettlarry View Post
No exaggeration. I was playing with extremes and every sitting on a weight distribution hitch. It wasn't a miracle. It was just a lack of weight transfer to the front axle.
Do you have any CAT scale axle weights before and after you installed your WDH? That would provide an objective baseline which may explain what was going on. Without that, everything remains anecdotal and subjective.

Blind use of a WDH is very common. Me, I'd prefer to understand exactly what I'm correcting or not correcting with a WDH by verifying axle weights before and after installation.
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Old 03-24-2022, 08:51 AM   #43
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Yes. Cat scale weights several times. But it was 15 years ago with different truck and different trailer. Can't remember the numbers.

Larry
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Old 03-24-2022, 09:08 AM   #44
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Do you have any CAT scale axle weights before and after you installed your WDH? That would provide an objective baseline which may explain what was going on. Without that, everything remains anecdotal and subjective.

Blind use of a WDH is very common. Me, I'd prefer to understand exactly what I'm correcting or not correcting with a WDH by verifying axle weights before and after installation.
Look, my friend, I don't want to create a big conflict. I agree that a scientific approach with numbers would be best. But I can also tell you a seat of the pants feel for several different settings of the exact same truck and trailer are quite different. I agree that weight distribution hitches did not create Miracles but they can create a different feel for sure. Recently on a short trip to get new tires, my current rig didn't feel right. So I went up one inch on my Pro projects and it felt much better. I think I had remembered my measurements wrong for traveling and just didn't hook it up correctly. That was on me.

I also agree with you that a 1,500 lb tongue weight doesn't affect a one ton truck near as much as a half ton. Maybe even a minimal seat-of-the-pants feel, and not a whole lot of difference at a cat scale. And that's a case where it may not be absolutely necessary but it's also one of the extremes that don't often happen. So I don't think that particular case applies to the original poster. I can't even remember now but I don't think he was Towing a 1,500 lb tongue weight with a one ton truck. I think we can both agree on that.

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Old 03-24-2022, 10:23 AM   #45
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Look, my friend, I don't want to create a big conflict. I agree that a scientific approach with numbers would be best. But I can also tell you a seat of the pants feel for several different settings of the exact same truck and trailer are quite different. I agree that weight distribution hitches did not create Miracles but they can create a different feel for sure. Recently on a short trip to get new tires, my current rig didn't feel right. So I went up one inch on my Pro projects and it felt much better. I think I had remembered my measurements wrong for traveling and just didn't hook it up correctly. That was on me.

I also agree with you that a 1,500 lb tongue weight doesn't affect a one ton truck near as much as a half ton. Maybe even a minimal seat-of-the-pants feel, and not a whole lot of difference at a cat scale. And that's a case where it may not be absolutely necessary but it's also one of the extremes that don't often happen. So I don't think that particular case applies to the original poster. I can't even remember now but I don't think he was Towing a 1,500 lb tongue weight with a one ton truck. I think we can both agree on that.

Larry
Conflict is not my intent here.

I believe the best approach is both a subjective, seat-of-the-pants, *and* objective, by the numbers approach. They work hand-in-hand.

However, these WDH debates come up all the time. Typically, 95% of the comments reference subjective, seat-of-the-pants, or what I call "blind" use of a WDH. For example, 'my truck towed like crap, then I installed a WDH, now it tows like a dream'. One thumbs-up for using a WDH, but nothing more.

My posts/comments attempted to interject some balance into the discussion by discussing why axle weights are an extremely important part of determining the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of a WDH for any given application. This is something quantifiable and goes way beyond the subjective. I've helped friends with their tow rigs many, many times. It's amazing what 3 simple numbers from a CAT scale can tell you about your tow rig.

I realize there are those who could give a hoot about the technical side, that's fine. However, to counter objective, number-based comments with subjective, anecdotal comments does nothing to further the understanding of how a WDH operates, and more importantly, how to use a WDH in the most safe, effective manner possible.
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Old 03-24-2022, 10:28 AM   #46
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Interesting how everyone is cherry picking my comments and making the assumption I'm against the use of WDH's. Nothing is farther from the truth. I commented how a WDH distributes axle weight, and quantify the process with numbers. I explained when a WDH is very effective, and when it's not, and elaborate further with numbers.

You claim you had 13-15% tongue weight and still needed a WDH. What year, make and model truck? What kind of trailer? Loaded trailer weight? Loaded tongue weight? TV front and rear axle weights before and after installing the WDH? What was the WDH bar rating? 500, 1000, 1500 lbs?

With numbers we can make this debate a bit more objective and productive. Otherwise, it goes nowhere.

Are for your comment about me shaking the steering wheel not being equivalent to a realworld situation, well, you completely missed the point. This is a totally prudent test to make to determine whether you have any immediate handling issues. It's perfectly safe as long it's accomplished under controlled conditions, away from all traffic. If you're saying none of my comments carry any weight because I didn't go out and place myself in harms way to prove my point, that's ludicrous.

Lastly, you asked if I've ever had to make an "evasive move" in heavy traffic. I would ask you, who hasn't. Being involved in a number of evasive moves is exactly why I ALWAYS used a WDH with our 1/2-ton truck. As for why a WDH is not necessary with our 1-ton SRW diesel truck (in reference to our specific application), please reread my post.
Where did I say I was talking about WDH? We both agree that a WDH isn't always needed on a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. I've only owned 1500 series or smaller. Like you, I've never towed without WDH with my 1500 series trucks.

I'm only talking about sway control. Seems you are the one cherry picking. Don't assume you know more and are better at setting trailers up than others. It's condescending and insulting. You simply have not convinced me that saving a few bucks on sway control, after spending all that money on everything else, is worthwhile. Proper tongue weight and setup is not a guarantee that sway will not occur. It's the best mitigation you can do, but not a guarantee. As I said, I just hope it never happens to you. Or that someone else get hurt or killed because you want to save 5 minutes and a few dollars.
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Old 03-24-2022, 11:17 AM   #47
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Where did I say I was talking about WDH? We both agree that a WDH isn't always needed on a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. I've only owned 1500 series or smaller. Like you, I've never towed without WDH with my 1500 series trucks.

I'm only talking about sway control. Seems you are the one cherry picking. Don't assume you know more and are better at setting trailers up than others. It's condescending and insulting. You simply have not convinced me that saving a few bucks on sway control, after spending all that money on everything else, is worthwhile. Proper tongue weight and setup is not a guarantee that sway will not occur. It's the best mitigation you can do, but not a guarantee. As I said, I just hope it never happens to you. Or that someone else get hurt or killed because you want to save 5 minutes and a few dollars.
My apologies. I reread you post. Yes, you were referencing sway.

Again, in my years of towing, I've never encountered sway as long as we've had 15% tongue weight. With that being said, we've always been very careful about all the variables that come into play that may induce sway. Things like the side, surface area of the TT and the weight of the TV (very important!) which is needed to counter the rotational force created by the trailer, especially under windy conditions. All 3 of these elements have to be properly balanced to reduce sway. When either of these latter two items become excessively unbalanced, sway will still occur even with 15% of tongue weight. We've always been careful, so 15% tongue weight has always worked well for us.

As for your opinion my post was being condescending and insulting, sorry you feel that way. I simply replied in-kind to the tone of your post. Please feel free to disregard my comments about WDH's. As for my comments about "shaking the steering wheel" and "evasive moves", sorry, no apologies. IMO, these two comments were commensurate in tone and content to your post.
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Old 03-24-2022, 11:28 AM   #48
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I will be picking up an F350 shortly and will be towing the same trailer I currently tow with my Grand Cherokee. I will be using the sway bars all the time. Just good insurance and it isn’t really anymore work.
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Old 03-24-2022, 11:35 AM   #49
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Just a thought. You might want to use the search engine on “ backing up with wdh/sway bar attached “. I have always removed both before backing into my camping spot. I have read that you can damage them backing up and I find that the tt is easier to control without them.
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Old 03-24-2022, 11:44 AM   #50
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Some WDH bars can be damaged, but not all. The Reese sway bar (the one hitched to the tiny hitch balls) can be damaged. Don't ask me how I know ��
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Old 03-24-2022, 02:00 PM   #51
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Some WDH bars can be damaged, but not all. The Reese sway bar (the one hitched to the tiny hitch balls) can be damaged. Don't ask me how I know ��
I won't ask you, if you don't ask me. Last pop up we bought. And that was before we even left the dealers lot. First parts purchase...a new tongue ball and bracket assembly.
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Old 03-24-2022, 04:22 PM   #52
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LOL... I think we both committed SPUTs.... Stupid Popup Tricks
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Old 03-24-2022, 06:06 PM   #53
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I won't ask you, if you don't ask me. Last pop up we bought. And that was before we even left the dealers lot. First parts purchase...a new tongue ball and bracket assembly.
After forgetting x2 to remove my sway bar and snapping
X2 mini hitch balls it is now my wifes responsibility to remind me..if she doesn't, i blame her lol
Don't you just love that sound as it reverberates through your truck!
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Old 03-24-2022, 07:10 PM   #54
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The noise it made was ugly, but only one time. The DW telling me about my error on the drive home was MUCH worse!
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Old 03-26-2022, 10:58 AM   #55
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You can use two of those if you're hitch head has two
mounting points for the parts. You also have enough room on tongue.
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Old 08-26-2023, 01:47 PM   #56
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I own a Jayco Hummingbird 17 ft trailer which I tow with a 2007 dodge 2500 diesel. When I'm towing I can't even tell it's back there. Typically I have a sway bar similar to what garywilson showed above. On one trip I didn't use it. I couldn't tell the difference on my end. However my brother in law was following me and said he could tell a significant difference in the amount of sway in the trailer. I think if you have it go ahead and use it. It's just safer.

Jim
Thinking of buying JayFeather Micro 173MRB. Will pull with Chevy Duramax 2500. In reading this it answer my question about sway bars. In reading some other posts it makes me fear bending the tongue frame. Is this being paranoid on the frame thing ?
First TT always been in motorized.
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Old 08-28-2023, 09:23 PM   #57
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Thinking of buying JayFeather Micro 173MRB. Will pull with Chevy Duramax 2500. In reading this it answer my question about sway bars. In reading some other posts it makes me fear bending the tongue frame. Is this being paranoid on the frame thing ?
First TT always been in motorized.
I highly doubt you need one with that heavy of a truck and that light of a trailer.
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Old 08-29-2023, 04:32 AM   #58
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FWIW - we have pulled our 3500# trailer 48,662 miles first with a I6 Trailblazer - worked fine but nothing extra - then a 5.3 Tahoe. The Tahoe is very easy, fine in crosswinds, headwinds, being passed by semi trucks, turbulence behind trucks, and long steep downhill grades. We have never used additional stabilization or sway equipment, just hitch it up and go - up to 70 mph on interstates - and have never experienced fishtailing or other aberrant trailer behavior.
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Old 08-30-2023, 05:04 AM   #59
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Run it without an anti-sway WDH and see how it goes. At the end of the day it will take some winds, mountain trips and semi’s on the road passing you before you’ll know if a WDH is beneficial to your set up.
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