battery issue on 3rd outing

[BillFlippen]

So I have a 2006 f150 that was set up for a 5th wheel.
it has a factory tow package as well. I state this to help illustrate that I don't thing it is the TV at fault, but could be wrong.

got a new 154BH Baja. have taken it out 4 times this year (Spent several weekends building a pad for it)

1st time, spent a weekend hooked up to power. NO issues
2nd outing about a month later weekend hooked to power. No issues
3rd outing 3 days dry camping. No issues
4th outing about a 2 weeks later, 4 days dry camping big issue.

Upon arrival levels of every thing: Full Water, Empty grey and Black and Full Battery. the Next morning CO2 detector beeping.

I was sure it was some sort of warning due o the dog's bed being close, but that wasn't the case it was due to the battery being completely dead.

Prior to leaving the trailer had been plugged in for almost a week. Very little usage of electrical the first (and as you will see none the following nights)

Buddy had a genny and charged for a few hours and it read full charge on panel. A few hours later 50% and about an hour later CO2 beeping again.

Opened Battery cover and saw it black and stained, First thought was water seepage into Battery box, but popped the caps and saw the cells bone dry. Conclusion- Boil Over. Figuring the battery was already damaged, I topped off with some bottled water (Only do if absolutely needed and expect to replace battery if you use anything other than distilled). Ran on genny another hour or two and steam was coming out the battery and it was nice and toasty .

So now the million dollar Question: Why?

The dealership states that they can not see me for over a month.
I am tempted to chalk it up to a defective battery, but figured it should have reared its ugly head the first dry trip.

Checking voltage when plugged in to Shore power is about 14v with battery disconnected.
( I really need to get a new meter).

So a few questions:
Can the converter be the cause? are there any ways to check? Can anyone explain : Absorption 13.6V DC (includes charging and load); Bulk 14.4V DC; Float 13.2V DC ? Isn't Amperage a factor? 13V at 1 amp is drastically different at 2 amps? any idea what wattage / Amperage I should see at the battery while being charged? I assume the Amperage would change as the battery charge "fills up" to the mA level on a fully charged battery.

Can my vehicle be the blame? I haven't checked voltages, but I did connect to it, started the engine and ran the water pump and lights for 15 minutes so the wife and kids could get ready get ready, there did not seem to be any issue with that.

If I decide to go with a two (or more) battery system, any charging issues I need to be aware of (other than time to charge)? Could this set up be for a two battery system and cooking a 1 battery setup?

[Ela1948]

My guess is that you have shorted battery. I would pull that battery and have it checked. Replace your battery and watch your converters progression with a good volt meter. Amperage doesn't become a factor until you have pulled a great deal out of your batteries. When your voltage in your batteries has been reduced to a lower voltage ,say 12.2 volts. Your converter then will use that amperage to charge your battery at a faster rate. As that battery gets closer to full, amperage becomes less of a factor because it takes higher voltage to continue filling that battery. Its possible that your converter is malfunctioning but I doubt that it is the issue. Battery malfunction would be where I'd start. Batteries would be set up in parallel. That would have nothing to do with how many batteries you are charging. You can charge one or multiple batteries, the charging system handles them all the same.Your TV would not be the problem!!

[JFlightRisk]

X2 on the shorted cell. If the battery is still under warranty a dealer in your area that sells that brand can check it out, and warranty it, quicker than waiting for your RV dealer to get you in. There may be a pro-rate on it, depending on its age of service. Hot and steaming battery is dangerous. The vapors are explosive hydrogen. If the battery checks out OK, then the trip to your dealer is in order.

[Scoutr2]

X3 on the battery. I would almost bet a dead short in the battery. That's about the only thing that would cause the battery to become that hot when not plugged into shore power. You aren't charging the battery, you are discharging it, and the short is doing it at a dangerously accelerated rate.

[Loboclone]

Simple Response here. Wet batteries boil dry when plugged in.........if a wet battery is on shore power they boil dry. Short out yes, stop storing yes. Go AGM batteries, dual them and you got power! You can leave it on shore power and no problem. They cost more but replacing wet batteries due to boil over is a waste of time and money,

[Ela1948]

Originally Posted by Loboclone

Simple Response here. Wet batteries boil dry when plugged in.........if a wet battery is on shore power they boil dry. Short out yes, stop storing yes. Go AGM batteries, dual them and you got power! You can leave it on shore power and no problem. They cost more but replacing wet batteries due to boil over is a waste of time and money,

I have nothing against AGM batteries but this is a bit over the top.!! This situation has nothing to do with the type of battery being used. Stay on the subject..

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by Loboclone

Simple Response here. Wet batteries boil dry when plugged in.........if a wet battery is on shore power they boil dry. Short out yes, stop storing yes. Go AGM batteries, dual them and you got power! You can leave it on shore power and no problem. They cost more but replacing wet batteries due to boil over is a waste of time and money,

With the battery charge controllers that are standard in TT's/RV's there is not much of a chance to boil over a PROPERLY MAINTAINED battery that is not at the end of its life, unless the charge controller is defective, then either battery will die. Unless you have to install them in a closed area there is no need to pay the extra money for an AGM battery.

I would check the mfr date on the battery to see if you may have an old battery installed by the dealer.

Don

[Loboclone]

Originally Posted by Ela1948

I have nothing against AGM batteries but this is a bit over the top.!! This situation has nothing to do with the type of battery being used. Stay on the subject..

I retired from The largest Jayco dealer in country, this is a common problem I have encountered. Dealers put the cheapest wet cell battery they can find on new units. That being said why the "stay on subject", the subject is he toasted his battery by shore power. The whole situation is type of battery he is using! Don't leave wet cell batteries plug in to shore without adding distilled water frequently, that is on "subject". AGM is a Glass Mat an sealed battery that provides more reserve power
Charge controllers do not prevent boil over, that is a fallacy that RV owners believe. We get customers constantly that have battery issues, 99% of time the batteries are dry? If you believe that you charge controller are perfect why do dealers sell more batteries than one ply toilet paper!

Properly maintained wet cell battery is the issue. if you are married to maintain wet cells so be it! I am not, I have 6 too maintain.

[Ela1948]

If you read the first part of the thread, it says that it is a new trailer that has been hooked up very little to shore power. You having retired from the largest Jayco dealer in the country, would know that the most likely scenario would be a shorted battery which can happen in any battery line. No doubt AGM batteries should be a better product over all. You pay dearly for it. I had wet cell batteries that were 3 years old and had never needed water added to them. They stay hooked up to shore power constantly. The old converters definitely required battery maintenance often because they put out constant voltage that which would over time cook a battery. The new progressive smart chargers drastically reduce the need for adding water. I will still say that this gentleman's problem doesn't have a thing to do with what type of battery he buys!!

[NVGun40]

Originally Posted by Ela1948

If you read the first part of the thread, it says that it is a new trailer that has been hooked up very little to shore power.

Actually, in the beginning of his statement, he says his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd outings were hooked up to power. He didn't discover the battery problem until the 4th outing.

No matter, it all sounds like a bad battery to me. New trailer, unlikely it is the converter/charge/controller system. Admits the battery was dry.

Whether it boiled over, and dried up, or it was a bad battery, or it somehow shorted; doesn't matter. Can't begin to track down and fix the problem until he gets a new battery.

Replace battery, AGM, wet cell, two 6 volts, your choice. Get new battery, pay attention to maintenance and see if you have more problems.

[BillFlippen]

Thanks for the responses, a lot of great info.

To clarify, the battery did not get hot until it was being charged.
when not on genny or shore power, battery is cool to touch. When on genny or shore, battery gets very warm, almost hot.

I went out and got a new multimeter as my last one was over 20 years old and seen better days. Calibrated, and tested the cables when removed from the battery and plugged into shore - 13.0 vdc steady. (a bit low but factoring in voltage drop maybe not) not sure if I should see 13.2 or 13.6.

It is an Interstate Battery so getting it replaced should not be an issue. Thinking a gel battery may not be that bad.

I did have the trailer plugged in to my house about a week just prior to last outing when this was discovered. Coupled with warm weather then quite possible it is just the nature of the battery.

I used to maintain batteries on M1 tanks and never had an issue with Lead Acid deep cycle, and they where under much bigger loads.

Well I am gonna try and get the battery replaced under warranty elsewhere, since the dealer wait is just plain stupid. get a gravity tester and carry plenty of distilled from here on out.

I will post a follow up

Thanks again for the input.

[Ela1948]

Bill, that business of carrying plenty of distilled water is not.necessary. If your battery and converter are working properly, adding water is not a regular thing at all until possibly the battery has number of years on it. If you had an interstate battery and it failed, you just had bad luck. They make a good battery and chances are that after you replace it, your troubles are over. Pull it and have it checked. It is just that simple. Don't make more of this issue then it is. My wet cell batteries stay plugged in when ever I'm home and do not need water added!! If you want to go gel thats just fine. Just don't jump at gel because of someone else's opinion. That business of " just being the nature of the battery" is false. There is something wrong.

[tnchuck100]

Originally Posted by Loboclone

Simple Response here. Wet batteries boil dry when plugged in.........if a wet battery is on shore power they boil dry. Short out yes, stop storing yes. Go AGM batteries, dual them and you got power! You can leave it on shore power and no problem. They cost more but replacing wet batteries due to boil over is a waste of time and money,

Very misleading and false. Generates unwarranted distrust in wet cell batteries.

I have had the original wet cell battery that was supplied by the dealer 4 years ago. It remains on shore power 75% of the time. During the summer it is always on to keep the temperature under 85 degrees. In all that time I have added less than 2 ounces of water. I check it monthly and seldom have needed to add water.

As others have said if the battery is not faulty and you have a 3-stage converter the should be no issue being connected to shore power 24/7.

[BillFlippen]

how can you tell if you have a 3 stage converter?


it is a WFCO WF-8735-P. I see no indication of it being a 3 stager.


What other types are there? single and /or 2 stagers? what could go wrong if it is a single stager?


Trying to get the battery replaced under warranty.

[Mustang65]

On page 3 of the operations manual it lists the 3 stages of your unit. It is a 3 stage unit.
Google "WFCO WF-8735-P manual" and click on the PDF file.
Don

[BillFlippen]

So after much research I have found that the WFCO maintain charge is misleading and doesn't work the way one would anticipate. Evidently, the only way they go into the maintain mode is if EVERYTHING is turned off.


I went ahead and got an Intelli-Power 9200.
Cut the power cord, removed the storage box, converted to a plug in shorepower.


Ripped the guts out of the old converter. Cleaned up the wiring and was just about to hook up the negative side of the circuit and ran into a small dilemma.


The 8AWG white wire was disconnected and my dumb butt didn't take before pictures.
all my small white wires go to a ground bus along with a bare copper (Chassis ground?) I believe the 8AWG was also connected to this bus.


So 2 favors.
1) can someone confirm this?
2) anyone know how I should connect the Chassis ground to the grounding (not negative) lug? Should that Bare wire (if it is indeed the chassis ground ) even be connected to the bus? the converter document states that the ground should not be connected to the same wire as the negative.

[Ela1948]

Unless there is more to the story then you have told us. You have went to a lot of trouble over a bad battery!!!!

[norty1]

My rig came with 2- 12v wet cells. I do have a 3 stage converter and my last 2 rigs also have had the same setup except with only one 12v battery. My rig is plugged in to 120v when I am home or camping.

My experience with using Marine type batteries is they they usually last 4-5 years by using the charger I have and regular checks of water levels. I hardly ever have to add water.
Just make sure the contacts are clean, tight and no corrosion .

[Hohenwald48]

You likely have a shorted cell in your battery as many have already stated. If that's the case then, in effect, you have a 10 volt (5 cell) battery. The 13.5 charging voltage is 5.5 volts over the proper charging voltage for a 10 volt battery. Hence the boil over of the remaining 5 cells.

Take the battery out and put in a new one.

Are AGM's better than flooded lead acid? Probably in most applications but I'm not sure you can justify the additional expense. Can you leave your standard flooded lead acid on a properly operating charger? Of course you can and there will be no problems involved.

However, you do have to maintain flooded batteries on a regular basis. If you aren't willing to do that you might want to look at AGM. I've had flooded batteries in 10+ different RV's and several golf carts with no problems leaving them on charge all the time. But I do properly maintain them.

[BillFlippen]

I have a replacement battery that I am just about to put in.
Was able to get it under warranty.


My request isn't so much about the best battery, but rather if someone can snap a pic of their un-modded wiring and if there is anyone who might know about the the chassis ground.


I appreciate all the input on the best battery and might open up a thread specifically dealing with that.


Thanks in advance.